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Old 05-22-2013, 04:34 PM   #226
DMMarla07860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bella29 View Post

You must be watching a different video than I am. I watched it again here:
http://thestir.cafemom.com/in_the_ne...oyee_caught_on

There is no sound, but you can clearly see the first time he touches her breast as she walks in the elevator. Then he reaches out again. Then he leans over her. She tries to step back away from, he holds on to her. For 43 seconds. There is no way he is simply holding the elevator door for her as a courtesy.

Here's another article from a respected travel industry reporter:
http://www.petergreenberg.com/2013/0...al-misconduct/
As he says, "The footage recorded the employee groping the childs chest and forcibly kissing her."

The video evidence ties completely with the girl's account as documented in the ship's incident report. He grabbed her breast twice, he held onto her, he kissed her. She reported it to her grandparent and the grandparent reported it to the ship authorities in a very timely manner. I find it almost impossible to believe that the captain of the Disney Dream did not find out about a sexual assault allegation within minutes of guest services learning of it. It is also unlikely that they didn't have video corroboration of the accusation within minutes. Certainly within 1 hour.

Any reasonable, semi-intelligent person would agree that this incident at least rises to the level of needing to be investigated by the local police. There was no excuse for Disney to remove the molester, his victim, and the crime scene to the Bahamas without notifying the police who clearly had authority while the ship was in Port.

If there were some crazy mistake made during the two hours between reporting and sail away, and there was also some crazy lunar gravitational pull preventing them from returning to Port Canaveral, there is still no excuse for not locking the molester up for the duration of the cruise and handing him over to the police on August 10. And there is absolutely no excuse for sending him on his merry way with a plane ticket to safety.
I saw the video, you can see he did something, yes, but take away the sound and it doesn't look like much. That's what I was saying. I only knew it happened with sound, the first time I watched without sound I saw like is there really anything to see here. I still don't see the kiss in the video
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:48 PM   #227
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DCL, the ships captain or Bahamian authorities would have to grant that authorithy. My dad has worked as a river boat captain for 30+ years. When i went to visit a US ort town many years back he made it a poitn to caution me ( from his own knowledge and experience) that while shopping in the port district to not go onto any boats. He said many of the boats lure tourist onto them saying they have products for sale or deals in the boat( non US ships), once on their boat, you are no longer on US soil, they take this advantage to kidnap, or rape women. My dad said US authorities have no jurisdiction to pursue these boats even if they remain in port, they have to report it to the country the boat is flagshipped under and obtain permission
(which is rarely granted) to board ship. He said there are may cases of kidnapping but even more rapes, because the crew know US does not have jurisdiction to come aboard and can leave before they get the proper permissio
That is not quite correct. Today the local/state/feds(as long as it is not US Flag) can get a warrant and take anyone off a vessel. If the authorities have reason to believe someone is being held onboard against there will, they get the a search warrant or have the USCG do a search.

Now if they are refused, which would be a very rare thing then they get the state dept to ask permission form the flag country.

Now if they are refused again, your now in the middle of a big diplomatic fight and they simply tie up the vessel and refuse permission for the vessel to sail.

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Old 05-22-2013, 04:56 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by GoofyTwinDad View Post
If there are any lawyers or police reading this thread, does forceful restraint such as the CM demonstrated by not letting the girl out of the elevator give rise to kidnapping or some other higher charge than molestation?
Possibly false imprisonment but I do not think that would be a higher charge. I am not familiar with Florida law but I saw a post that said he could potentially have been given a life sentence for the molestation alone. Kidnapping, probably not.
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Old 05-22-2013, 05:15 PM   #229
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If there are any lawyers or police reading this thread, does forceful restraint such as the CM demonstrated by not letting the girl out of the elevator give rise to kidnapping or some other higher charge than molestation?
I would love to know the answer as she was in an open, not closed elevator, and he was keeping it open. In reality if the girl was feeling trapped she could have screamed but she didn't. They were in a public place as well with lots of people walking by and in the area. If memory serves me right people were still boarding at that time so anyone could have walked by.

By the way to whoever keeps quoting that the consequence for sexual assault to a minor in the state of FL is 25 years to life- can you quote me the details of cases where this has actually happened as I would be interested to know if this really happens and what the nature of the crime was. There are certainly a lot of known sex offenders where I live (you can look up this information on line) and I am betting that they served nowhere near that amount of time. I also recall being in Orlando where Disney identified a known sex offender in the water park and had him removed and banned (he obviously did not spend life in prison and was still roaming free.
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Old 05-22-2013, 05:36 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by Tonka's Skipper View Post
For the record:

1. By international law the Vessel is under Bahamas flag and the Bahamas they can and apparently DID assert jurisdiction after they got to Nassau.

In Florida, local, state and/or the feds could assert jurisdiction. I see no report they ever did, even after they were advised.

2. The vessel was 100% wrong morally and I believe legally to have sailed without advising if not local, SOME authority before leaving Florida.

3. The Master was aware of what was going on, maybe not the full details, but of the attack and was at best wrong to sail.

4. While in Nassau, the authorities questioned the ******* and got him to admit. What they may or may not have required regarding this ******* flown home to India (which we all know from the recent events and rapes in India, do not take this kind of thing seriously) I do not know.

5. There MAY have been a crew contract which required Disney to fly the ******* to India to face legal action there.

6. I don't blame the grandmother from wanting to stop the investigation to protect the child. We all know how corrupted the lawyers and judged have made our legal system trying to protect criminals. They would have put that child though hell!

7. I don't care how long ago this happened, its still wrong!


As the vessel had already sailed, I would have preferred they had just. dropping the ******* overboard at sea!

Pleas note my last comment was as a Father and not a Ships Officer.

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Seriously? She taught the child that her attacker went away without consequence. That's ok, but DCL is 100% wrong?
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Old 05-22-2013, 05:44 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by jenifred View Post
Seriously?
WITHOUT QUESTION!

35years in the Maritime industry and as a Deck Officer/Master, what was done was way over the top wrong, especially for Disney.

I will go even further, whoever in the office told the Master to sail and the Master should be fired!

And Yes, you can bet a week pay on the fact the office was aware.

And I am one of the biggest Disney fans

As for the Grandmother........not I don't blame the Grandmother...........I can understand the fear she would have had for the child and the hell the child would go though facing the guys trail.




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Old 05-22-2013, 06:12 PM   #232
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I would love to know the answer as she was in an open, not closed elevator, and he was keeping it open. In reality if the girl was feeling trapped she could have screamed but she didn't. .
Are you kidding? Didn't scream? The girl was 11 years old and had no clue what was happening until after the fact. I am the biggest Disney fan but this is clearly a case in which what ever senior officer made the decision to sail should be fired.
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Old 05-22-2013, 06:28 PM   #233
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Seriously? She taught the child that her attacker went away without consequence. That's ok, but DCL is 100% wrong?
Apple and oranges.

I base my decision on Disney because I know the responsibilities of the line and the Master. They didn't follow though with their responsibilities and duties.

As to the Grandmother, I can only pray your child is never attacked so you don't have to make that type of choice.

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Old 05-22-2013, 06:38 PM   #234
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Has anyone pointed out what would have happened if DCL had reported it to FL and the family had refused to file a complaint and get off the ship to talk the cops? Nothing can happen if no one steps forward to say a crime has been commited. Although the Grandmother reported it to GS and there is a tape, the kid still has to say it happened and she did not want it to happen. ALL to the cops and lawyers. If the family did not want the cops invovlved, what is DCL suppose to do? Just what they did.

I'm not saying, I think this was handled right. But here are people "yelling" at other people about what DCL/Grandma/kid/Sentinel/this "Person" all did or did not do. In reality, if anyone had changed their actions at that time it would have been totally different outcome. We do not know all the motivations for ALL the players in the story.

Moral of the story: Learn and be aware of where you are and teach your kids the same.
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Old 05-22-2013, 06:50 PM   #235
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Has anyone pointed out what would have happened if DCL had reported it to FL and the family had refused to file a complaint and get off the ship to talk the cops?.
Yes.
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Old 05-22-2013, 06:55 PM   #236
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Can't help but wish Bill O'Reilly would cover this story. He is an amazing advocate for child sexual assault victims.

Count me among those disgusted with DCL.
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Old 05-22-2013, 07:08 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by chris31997 View Post
Has anyone pointed out what would have happened if DCL had reported it to FL and the family had refused to file a complaint and get off the ship to talk the cops? Nothing can happen if no one steps forward to say a crime has been commited. Although the Grandmother reported it to GS and there is a tape, the kid still has to say it happened and she did not want it to happen.
The bolded is not true at all, especially the last part. Because witnesses can be intimidated and because of things like battered women dying because they were to scared to come forward, there no longer has to be a willingness on the part of the victim to press charges. As far as the last part- she's eleven. She has no ability to give consent.
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Old 05-22-2013, 07:15 PM   #238
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In reality if the girl was feeling trapped she could have screamed but she didn't.
the child is a victim. to suggest that she bears any responsibility for what transpired ...
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Old 05-22-2013, 07:17 PM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris31997 View Post
Has anyone pointed out what would have happened if DCL had reported it to FL and the family had refused to file a complaint and get off the ship to talk the cops? Nothing can happen if no one steps forward to say a crime has been commited. Although the Grandmother reported it to GS and there is a tape, the kid still has to say it happened and she did not want it to happen. ALL to the cops and lawyers. If the family did not want the cops invovlved, what is DCL suppose to do? Just what they did.

I'm not saying, I think this was handled right. But here are people "yelling" at other people about what DCL/Grandma/kid/Sentinel/this "Person" all did or did not do. In reality, if anyone had changed their actions at that time it would have been totally different outcome. We do not know all the motivations for ALL the players in the story.

Moral of the story: Learn and be aware of where you are and teach your kids the same.

In the State of Florida, as in most states, the family of the victim or the victims themselves, aren't the ones who press charges. The State makes that decision. DCL didn't give this girl and her grandmother the option of talking to the Florida police. Any time there is an accusation of molestation, the police should be called, if the people are in the United States, and they were.

It's impossible to say "what if...this, or what if...that..." because whoever the girl and her grandmother talked to onboard didn't follow the law.
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Old 05-22-2013, 07:29 PM   #240
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I would love to know the answer as she was in an open, not closed elevator, and he was keeping it open. In reality if the girl was feeling trapped she could have screamed but she didn't.
I had a similar experience at about her age. I didn't really know what was going on until it was over. Was so shocked at first, screaming didn't cross my mind.
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