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Old 05-22-2013, 01:29 PM   #181
Bella29
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Originally Posted by Rogillio View Post
Thanks you for your very rationale opinion! I was thinking the same thing.

If a teacher is reported to the principal that a teacher 'touched them inapropiately' would you want the cops to rush in and drag the teacher out of school in handcuffs? Maybe the principal should do a little investigation to validate the claim? Maybe he should talk to the teacher first! Maybe he should look at the video tape from the classroom. Find out if there were witnesses. Once there is reasonable cause to conclude a crime has been committed, then you call the cops.
yes sure, isn't that how the Catholic church handled it too? Keep it quiet, in-house, be reasonable. Transfer the abuser somewhere else.

People who apologize for child molesters and those who cover up their crimes make me sick.

Last edited by Bella29; 05-22-2013 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 05-22-2013, 01:31 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by maria-fan-22 View Post
Not to the cops, a similar thing happened with a teacher in Oklahoma and the cops were not called until after the school district conducted their own investigation.
Well, they did the wrong thing if it was a child.
http://okea.org/about-oea/media-cent...buse-reporting

http://www.okdhs.org/programsandserv...ps/default.htm

And for good measure https://www.childwelfare.gov/systemw...age=2&view=Fit which has each state listed of who must report (Florida included which says everyone is required to make a report.)
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Old 05-22-2013, 02:03 PM   #183
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Still don't understand the family not wanting to press charges here - I smell some 'incentives' coming from DCL in order to keep it under wraps and if the store was not 100% solid, then more of a reason to keep quiet.

Either way - credible or not, the person would more than likely had been relieved of duties.

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Old 05-22-2013, 02:18 PM   #184
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This issue is not cut and dry. There are dozens of question unanswered. So each of us in our own minds have made assumption to fill in where we have no data. What exactly did he confess to? Were there other camera angles? Was the Captain notified before they set sail? Was it the head of security that did the investigation? Why did the local athorities not do anything after they were notified? If DCL broke the law, why are local athorities not indicting someone? Why has the mainstream media not picked up on this story? Did the victim speak English? Did the grandparents speak English? Did the grandparents tell DCL they did not want to press charges while they were still in PC? Did grandparents tell DCL that they didn't want their GD talking to police?

I could go on and on. I think we beat this dead horse long enought. I know some what to keep it alive so they can continue to slam DCL but I think we are simply rehasing the same points.
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Old 05-22-2013, 02:28 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justmestace View Post

The little girl and her grandmother are from Brazil. They may not have spoken English, they may not have owned a cell phone, and they probably TRUSTED DCL to do the right thing.
In a situation like this one, I guarantee you that it would be pretty easy to convince the grandmother that "all will be taken care of", and "we'll handle this" and "we just want you to try to enjoy the rest of your cruise" and most likely "we'll pay for all your onboard charges" (maybe even the whole cruise, who knows?) And the grandma didn't know any better.

I really pray that nothing awful like a rape ever happens to you or someone you love, because trust me from experience, you have no idea how you will react until that does happen. Frantic, sick, insane.....these words don't begin to explain the emotions. And you lose your head....totally cannot think straight.

I don't see how anyone could even begin to blame the grandmother for ANY of this.
Not blaming the grandmother, but not blaming DCL either, bad situation that happened yes, but we don't have the full story to blame anyone. We have a video that doesn't show all that much, to me it didn't look like much besides a guy hitting on a girl which I have seen happen. It's not like he raped her. So while yes I do feel sorry it happened, can't place blame on DCL, they looked into it, guy admitted he did something and he was sent home.
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Old 05-22-2013, 02:33 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogillio View Post
This issue is not cut and dry. There are dozens of question unanswered. So each of us in our own minds have made assumption to fill in where we have no data. What exactly did he confess to? Were there other camera angles? Was the Captain notified before they set sail? Was it the head of security that did the investigation? Why did the local athorities not do anything after they were notified? If DCL broke the law, why are local athorities not indicting someone? Why has the mainstream media not picked up on this story? Did the victim speak English? Did the grandparents speak English? Did the grandparents tell DCL they did not want to press charges while they were still in PC? Did grandparents tell DCL that they didn't want their GD talking to police?

I could go on and on. I think we beat this dead horse long enought. I know some what to keep it alive so they can continue to slam DCL but I think we are simply rehasing the same points.


Rogillo, we are DCL fans and everyone knows our positions on the other line, but in this case, there are enough facts to show the authorities (local, state or feds) should have been notified before the vessel sailed.

All the other facts may have changed the final details of what happened, but that doesn't change that the vessel should not have sailed!

AKK


PS. The Master was advised, no way would he not have been. He may not have been given all the details, but enough would have been told to him to decide to sail or not.

AKK
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Old 05-22-2013, 02:36 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by justmestace View Post
You'll always be able to find one or two cases where someone took the law into their own hands, or checked facts first......but it is NOT the job of the school (or cruise line) to investigate first, call cops later.

This was wrong. There are no two ways about it. They were on U.S. soil, the Florida authorities should have been called immediately.
Oh my friend, you just had to say that little bit there!

I doesn't change much, and we agree on the rest, but they were on Bahamian soil, not US soil, they were in a US port.

To you, me, others reading and the bulkhead, it really doesn't matter but legally it makes a big difference.


AKK


PS. As odd as this may seem, if it had been a US flag vessel, Florida local or state authorities could investigate, but could not remove the crew member from the vessel. Only a Federal Marshall could take him off the vessel.
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Old 05-22-2013, 02:43 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by Tonka's Skipper View Post
Rogillo, we are DCL fans and everyone knows our positions on the other line, but in this case, there are enough facts to show the authorities (local, state or feds) should have been notified before the vessel sailed.

All the other facts may have changed the final details of what happened, but that doesn't change that the vessel should not have sailed!

AKK


PS. The Master was advised, no way would he not have been. He may not have been given all the details, but enough would have been told to him to decide to sail or not.

AKK

I respectfully disagree. If the grandparents told DCL they were not going to talk to police there was no reason to call the police and delay the departure of the ship. For all they had was hearsay. The tape alone shows nothing afoul. DCL still had an obligation to get the guy off the ship and they did that.
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Old 05-22-2013, 02:48 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by Tonka's Skipper View Post
Oh my friend, you just had to say that little bit there!

I doesn't change much, and we agree on the rest, but they were on Bahamian soil, not US soil, they were in a US port.

To you, me, others reading and the bulkhead, it really doesn't matter but legally it makes a big difference.


AKK


PS. As odd as this may seem, if it had been a US flag vessel, Florida local or state authorities could investigate, but could not remove the crew member from the vessel. Only a Federal Marshall could take him off the vessel.
Wow. Interesting! After 13 pages I finally learned something. ;-)

OK, so since it was a Bahamian flagged vessel, who has the athority to remove him?
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:01 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by Rogillio View Post
Wow. Interesting! After 13 pages I finally learned something. ;-)

OK, so since it was a Bahamian flagged vessel, who has the athority to remove him?
According to the articles:

"Port Canaveral police chief Joseph Hellebrand said his department can investigate and refer for prosecution such crimes on ships. Anything that occurs within 1,000 feet of its shoreline, as this incident did with the Dream tied to dock, is at least in part port jurisdiction, Hellebrand said.

But Port Canaveral police were prevented from investigating because Disney Cruise Line, or DCL, did not report the crime immediately, as Hellebrand said they should.

Had DCL done so, the chief said, “We would have sent an officer aboard the ship, we would have notified the (on-call) detective, we would have interviewed the family, the victim, the suspect,” and, if warranted, arrested the dining room server."

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/dis...z/-/index.html
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:04 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Rogillio View Post
Wow. Interesting! After 13 pages I finally learned something. ;-)

OK, so since it was a Bahamian flagged vessel, who has the athority to remove him?

Actually, they all have the right to investigate, and I believe who ever got to him first (as its not a US flag vessel) could take him into custody.

The big question is whose authority would be paramount to prosecute him???


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Old 05-22-2013, 03:06 PM   #192
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I respectfully disagree. If the grandparents told DCL they were not going to talk to police there was no reason to call the police and delay the departure of the ship. For all they had was hearsay. The tape alone shows nothing afoul. DCL still had an obligation to get the guy off the ship and they did that.
She told DCL she did not want to press charges 2 days later according to the article.

"But by then – two days into a five-day Disney cruise – the victim’s grandmother had decided she did not want the crime investigated. DCL would not say if it refunded any or all of the family’s cruise expenses."

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/dis...z/-/index.html

Strange since they reported the incident 8 minutes after it happened. They must have been willing to do something at this point.

"Eight minutes after the molestation -- and two hours before the ship departed -- the victim and her grandmother emerged from the elevator at 3:03 p.m. and headed toward the guest services counter, where they reported the incident."

Also:

"Had Florida law enforcement immediately been informed of the potential life felony and found probable cause, Hellebrand said the suspect would have been arrested, regardless of a victim’s grandmother’s wishes.

But the rules are different in the Bahamas."
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:22 PM   #193
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Although I am a DCL fan, I'd slam both. DCL should have reported this but opted not to and instead keeping it in the hands of Bahama's enforcement. Anything to keep it under wraps - look at the credibility of Carnival since their mishaps. This is on purpose - not just for wages. And not just for DCL.

Remember the story of the DCL CM that went missing a year or so ago? And how poorly it's been handled and covered?

All cruise lines do it.

My magic started to fade a few years ago when I saw a CM scalping fast passes in MK on Xmas... Well, I guess I finally opened my eyes. S* is going to happen, no matter how much pixie dust we throw at it.
Sorry I don't know the cruise laws, so I can't say if DCL should have reported this. I mean it is flagged under Bahamas, so different rules? And the missing CM yes I remember thought again can't say it was handle poorly, didn't they search the ship?
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:31 PM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonka's Skipper View Post
Oh my friend, you just had to say that little bit there!

I doesn't change much, and we agree on the rest, but they were on Bahamian soil, not US soil, they were in a US port.

To you, me, others reading and the bulkhead, it really doesn't matter but legally it makes a big difference.


AKK


PS. As odd as this may seem, if it had been a US flag vessel, Florida local or state authorities could investigate, but could not remove the crew member from the vessel. Only a Federal Marshall could take him off the vessel.

I knew when I typed that it wasn't quite right, because (obviously) the ship isn't really ON soil.
But from what I gathered, Florida still had jurisdiction, and they (FL police) should still have been called.
I won't go any further as to who would remove him from the ship, because I admit I know nothing about the laws onboard.....but I believe with all my heart that the police should have been interviewing the little girl, not anyone onboard. That's all I'm trying to say.
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:32 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by DMMarla07860

Not blaming the grandmother, but not blaming DCL either, bad situation that happened yes, but we don't have the full story to blame anyone. We have a video that doesn't show all that much, to me it didn't look like much besides a guy hitting on a girl which I have seen happen. It's not like he raped her. So while yes I do feel sorry it happened, can't place blame on DCL, they looked into it, guy admitted he did something and he was sent home.
Ignorance is bliss. "didn't look like much besides a guy hitting on a girl", are you serious? Have you ever been molested or raped? If not, you have no right to make a comment like this.

You are one of the staunchest supporters on DIS who always wants everyone to follow DCL's rules and guidelines, and yet it is DCL who let a child molester walk away on their own dime. Sorry if this offends anyone, but I have a difficult time supporting DCL (our family loves DCL) in this situation.
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