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Old 05-16-2013, 10:39 AM   #31
Wick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racefanof88 View Post
I don't buy this for one minute. If their intent was just to use the handicapped "skip the line" advantage, all they would have to do is rent a wheelchair and put Mom, Dad, or one of the kids in the chair. That would come out MUCH cheaper than what the NY Puke is reporting. You can also go to Guest Services and get a Guest Assistance Card and it is free. Disney does not ask you to prove your disability!! I think it would fall more under the category of a liberal rag trying to create more class warfare.
They don't do this because it's too much of a hassle to act like they're handicapped for the day- maneuvering around the park, getting in and out of the chair itself, etc. They also just plain don't want to be seen as handicapped. Easier to just pay someone.

Yes the NY Post is a glorified tabloid, but I know this story to be true and know people who have paid for these types of black market services- not the exact one named in the article. But there are others, I assure you.
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:42 AM   #32
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A poster reported a long wait at It's a Small World during Presidents week. Not sure why some posters insist the poster is lying, exaggerating or doesn't know how to tell time. I've seen a long line, over an hour, after the afternoon parade. It wasn't during a holiday period and MK wasn't closed due to capacity. I have no reason to doubt a poster who claims such a wait during a peak holiday day.

That said the actual wait time isn't really relevant. The guide may have told the family she saved them a wait of 2 1/2 hours. Tell your friends how much time you saved by using my services. Do you think the family that paid for her services, were escorted directly into the handicap queue? Do you think they even looked at the waiting time sign? My guess is they saw a long line and accepted the 2 1/2 hour wait as accurate.

The NY Post is sort of a second (third?) rate newspaper. It's not a supermarket tabloid. The story sounds plausible, even credible.

In one of the other threads I posted a couple of links. Disney is investigating.

Paying over $100 /hour for a private guide. You want to call that something the 1% does. I guess that's one way of putting it.
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Old 05-16-2013, 01:44 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Wick View Post
They don't do this because it's too much of a hassle to act like they're handicapped for the day- maneuvering around the park, getting in and out of the chair itself, etc. They also just plain don't want to be seen as handicapped. Easier to just pay someone.

Yes the NY Post is a glorified tabloid, but I know this story to be true and know people who have paid for these types of black market services- not the exact one named in the article. But there are others, I assure you.
I still don't buy this story. If, as you say, it would be too much of a hassle for them to act handicapped while trying to maneuver around the park, would it not also be true that it would be a hassle to BE with a handicapped 'tour' guide? The group would have to stay together for them to 'benefit' from the 'guides' handicap, so they would have the same maneuvering hassle.

I have a friend who has to use a motorized wheelchair and any time we are in the parks together we have to be in a group when we get to a ride. We are lead to a separate loading area, together, where we wait. It isn't necessarily faster as there are only so many wheelchair spots on a ride so the standby line may actually move faster.

While I don't doubt people try to use whatever 'advantage' they think they can to get ahead in line, I just don't see this as a legitimate story. The so called 1% would NEVER give away a 'secret' such as this as it would no longer be something exclusive for them to enjoy.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewisc View Post
A poster reported a long wait at It's a Small World during Presidents week. Not sure why some posters insist the poster is lying, exaggerating or doesn't know how to tell time. I've seen a long line, over an hour, after the afternoon parade. It wasn't during a holiday period and MK wasn't closed due to capacity. I have no reason to doubt a poster who claims such a wait during a peak holiday day.

That said the actual wait time isn't really relevant. The guide may have told the family she saved them a wait of 2 1/2 hours. Tell your friends how much time you saved by using my services. Do you think the family that paid for her services, were escorted directly into the handicap queue? Do you think they even looked at the waiting time sign? My guess is they saw a long line and accepted the 2 1/2 hour wait as accurate.

The NY Post is sort of a second (third?) rate newspaper. It's not a supermarket tabloid. The story sounds plausible, even credible.

In one of the other threads I posted a couple of links. Disney is investigating.

Paying over $100 /hour for a private guide. You want to call that something the 1% does. I guess that's one way of putting it.
If you look at the website for the company the Post is slandering you will see that the company offers tour guides FOR the handicapped, NOT handicapped tour guides. Thanks to the slanderous article they are no longer offering this service to people who truly need the service, and I hope they sue the ink out of the Post!!!
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Old 05-16-2013, 04:06 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by racefanof88 View Post
If you look at the website for the company the Post is slandering you will see that the company offers tour guides FOR the handicapped, NOT handicapped tour guides. Thanks to the slanderous article they are no longer offering this service to people who truly need the service, and I hope they sue the ink out of the Post!!!
That's the problem when multiple threads are left open. Discussion gets fragmented in multiple threads. I looked at their website, and posted a quote with link yesterday.

http://disboards.com/showpost.php?p=...1&postcount=35

According to the article in the NY Post Jacie, the employee running the tours, has some kind of auto-immune disorder and uses a scooter when conducting a tour. The website mentions Jacie's own disabling experiences.


I can't find any reference to a lawsuit against the NY Post. It's one thing claiming you've been slandered, it's another thing to prove it. I have seen reports which state Disney is investigating the situation.

Just my take. Tours use a combination of back door access at attractions like Small World which offer such access, good timing for some attractions, good use of fast pass and maybe get an occasional CM to cut some slack. World of mouth makes the tour sounds like it's offering more then it is.

Slander? Sorry to say the store sounds true, at least the part where customers think their guide in the scooter is getting them very short waiting times because of knowledge of how Disney handles disabled.

edited to add: The company describes the tours they offer.

http://www.dreamtoursflorida.com/the-program/disney-1/

Quote:
exclusive amenities including no wait time for rides, front row seating, back entrance access, character dining experience and a photo album filled with the wonders of a vacation experience!
We know the claim I bolded is almost always false.

What makes you think the NY Post story is slanderous? Why would you believe anything the company says?

Last edited by Lewisc; 05-16-2013 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 05-16-2013, 10:07 PM   #35
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25 years ago, many lines were not wheelchair accessible, but almost all of the newer attractions (and many of the older ones) are accessible in the regular (Mainstream) line.
So wheelchair or ECV = front of line has not been true for a long time. Even when there were many attractions with special arrangements for guests using wheelchairs, that didn't always mean shorter wait, just a different place to wait.

Since Small World was mentioned in the article with a "one minute wait" for the disabled tour guide when the regular line was 2 and 1/2 hours .......

This picture shows the handicapped line for Small World.

It is required to be used by guests with mobility devices (like wheelchairs) because the regular line is not accessible. It is also used by some guests with GACs. In our experience, often over 1/2 of the guests/groups using it are using it for that reason - they don't have a mobility device.
Small World doesn't have a 'back door' entrance.
This picture shows a time when the wait was similar or possibly slightly shorter than the wait in the 'regular line.' The handicapped boarding area is toward the left side of the picture, down at the bottom of the ramp.The ramp at the top of the picture is part of the regular line. The ramp people are coming up on the right of the picture, toward you is the exit.

This picture show Small World at a time when the wait in the handicapped area was longer than the wait in the regular line.

My family was at the bottom of the ramp, waiting to get on. The picture is taken from the opposite direct compared to the first picture, looking toward the entrance and exit.
The ramp on the far left of the picture has the people who will get on the next 2 boats.
The ramp in the middle is the exit ramp. The ramp to the far right of the picture is the handicapped line and it went all the way to the entrance and out the gate at the top. People who did not have wheelchairs might have had a shorter wait in the regular line ( in this case, they would have since we saw the people who were just ahead of us entering the regular line get on way before us).

These are some more pictures of Small World that show a longer wait.
The posted wait time for the regular line was 25 minutes and you can see people, at least in this part of the regular line you can see, are widely spaced.


This is the handicapped line at the same time.

The actual entrance to handicapped line is way up where you can see a man and woman in orange shirts. It extends from the front of this picture all the down the ramp that is shown in the pictures in the previous post. All the people to the right of the photo are also part of the handicapped line.
The regular entrance is where you can see a sign in the background, between the heads of 2 people with orange hats.
In this case, people in the handicapped line will be waiting longer.
And, the extra wait can be much longer. One recent trip, my DH and DD had gone to Small World while I went on something DD is not able to go on. I know what time they got into line because DH texted me when they got in the line.
When I arrived at Small World, they had already been waiting for 25 minutes in the handicapped line. I could not get to them since they were in the bottom 1/3 of the handicapped line ramp shown in the picture and the handicapped line ramp was full all the way to the top.
I got in the regular line and planned to meet them later - DH was going to get DD something to drink while they waited for me to be done. 20 minutes later, I got on a boat - 3 boats behind them.
So, I waited 20 minutes (which was the posted time). They waited 45.
They did have to wait for a wheelchair accessible boat, but hadn't let 3 groups who didnt need the wheelchair boat from behind them in that line go past to board, so their wait in the line was not increased more than a few minutes by needing the wheelchair boat.
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Old 05-16-2013, 10:16 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewisc View Post
That's the problem when multiple threads are left open. Discussion gets fragmented in multiple threads. I looked at their website, and posted a quote with link yesterday.

http://disboards.com/showpost.php?p=...1&postcount=35

According to the article in the NY Post Jacie, the employee running the tours, has some kind of auto-immune disorder and uses a scooter when conducting a tour. The website mentions Jacie's own disabling experiences.


I can't find any reference to a lawsuit against the NY Post. It's one thing claiming you've been slandered, it's another thing to prove it. I have seen reports which state Disney is investigating the situation.

Just my take. Tours use a combination of back door access at attractions like Small World which offer such access, good timing for some attractions, good use of fast pass and maybe get an occasional CM to cut some slack. World of mouth makes the tour sounds like it's offering more then it is.

Slander? Sorry to say the store sounds true, at least the part where customers think their guide in the scooter is getting them very short waiting times because of knowledge of how Disney handles disabled.

edited to add: The company describes the tours they offer.

http://www.dreamtoursflorida.com/the-program/disney-1/



We know the claim I bolded is almost always false.

What makes you think the NY Post story is slanderous? Why would you believe anything the company says?
Why would I believe Dream Tours over the NY Post? Really? Really? Hmmmmm, well Dream Tours has not been proven to consistently lie and publish false and misleading articles, unlike the post. Nowhere on the company site does it say they offer handicapped tour guides. It does however go into detail about the services they offer TO the handicapped. If you look at the pictures on their site you will see the majority of their clients appear to be developmentally disabled.
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Old 05-16-2013, 10:52 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SueM in MN View Post
25 years ago, many lines were not wheelchair accessible, but almost all of the newer attractions (and many of the older ones) are accessible in the regular (Mainstream) line.
So wheelchair or ECV = front of line has not been true for a long time. Even when there were many attractions with special arrangements for guests using wheelchairs, that didn't always mean shorter wait, just a different place to wait.

Since Small World was mentioned in the article with a "one minute wait" for the disabled tour guide when the regular line was 2 and 1/2 hours .......

This picture shows the handicapped line for Small World.

It is required to be used by guests with mobility devices (like wheelchairs) because the regular line is not accessible. It is also used by some guests with GACs. In our experience, often over 1/2 of the guests/groups using it are using it for that reason - they don't have a mobility device.
Small World doesn't have a 'back door' entrance.
This picture shows a time when the wait was similar or possibly slightly shorter than the wait in the 'regular line.' The handicapped boarding area is toward the left side of the picture, down at the bottom of the ramp.The ramp at the top of the picture is part of the regular line. The ramp people are coming up on the right of the picture, toward you is the exit.

This picture show Small World at a time when the wait in the handicapped area was longer than the wait in the regular line.

My family was at the bottom of the ramp, waiting to get on. The picture is taken from the opposite direct compared to the first picture, looking toward the entrance and exit.
The ramp on the far left of the picture has the people who will get on the next 2 boats.
The ramp in the middle is the exit ramp. The ramp to the far right of the picture is the handicapped line and it went all the way to the entrance and out the gate at the top. People who did not have wheelchairs might have had a shorter wait in the regular line ( in this case, they would have since we saw the people who were just ahead of us entering the regular line get on way before us).

These are some more pictures of Small World that show a longer wait.
The posted wait time for the regular line was 25 minutes and you can see people, at least in this part of the regular line you can see, are widely spaced.


This is the handicapped line at the same time.

The actual entrance to handicapped line is way up where you can see a man and woman in orange shirts. It extends from the front of this picture all the down the ramp that is shown in the pictures in the previous post. All the people to the right of the photo are also part of the handicapped line.
The regular entrance is where you can see a sign in the background, between the heads of 2 people with orange hats.
In this case, people in the handicapped line will be waiting longer.
And, the extra wait can be much longer. One recent trip, my DH and DD had gone to Small World while I went on something DD is not able to go on. I know what time they got into line because DH texted me when they got in the line.
When I arrived at Small World, they had already been waiting for 25 minutes in the handicapped line. I could not get to them since they were in the bottom 1/3 of the handicapped line ramp shown in the picture and the handicapped line ramp was full all the way to the top.
I got in the regular line and planned to meet them later - DH was going to get DD something to drink while they waited for me to be done. 20 minutes later, I got on a boat - 3 boats behind them.
So, I waited 20 minutes (which was the posted time). They waited 45.
They did have to wait for a wheelchair accessible boat, but hadn't let 3 groups who didnt need the wheelchair boat from behind them in that line go past to board, so their wait in the line was not increased more than a few minutes by needing the wheelchair boat.
That has been my experience more than once when we have been in the park with our friend who has to use a motorized wheelchair. Since there are only so many ride vehicles that can accommodate a wheelchair, we have waited longer than the standby line depending on how many wheelchairs are in the queuing area.
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Old 05-17-2013, 08:17 AM   #38
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Why would I believe Dream Tours over the NY Post? Really? Really? Hmmmmm, well Dream Tours has not been proven to consistently lie and publish false and misleading ......
I was going to ask you to re-read my post. Instead I'll re post a quote from Dream Tours site:

Quote:
exclusive amenities including no wait time for rides,
Dream Tours lies and posts false and misleading statements.

as for the NY Post. They sensationalize and exaggerate. I don't know why they would decide to libel a small Disney tour company but

I can understand why a small tour company, hungry for business, might market their services in way which suggests the rich will get special access if they book the right tour company and get the right guide.
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:08 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewisc View Post
I was going to ask you to re-read my post. Instead I'll re post a quote from Dream Tours site:



Dream Tours lies and posts false and misleading statements.

as for the NY Post. They sensationalize and exaggerate. I don't know why they would decide to libel a small Disney tour company but

I can understand why a small tour company, hungry for business, might market their services in way which suggests the rich will get special access if they book the right tour company and get the right guide.
Again, my MAIN contention with the article all along has been the misleading comment stating that the company offers 'handicapped or disabled' tour guides. Getting nit picky about ONE line in the company's description is really going to extremes don't you think?

Being a nurse, and at times, having worked with patients with severe developmental disabilities, I would say it is very possible they have little to no wait times. There are some with these type disabilities that do not handle long wait times, nor large crowds, very well. I can see Disney, in the best interest of the customer, both disabled and not, letting them get on rides sooner than someone who does not have this type disability. If over stimulated it isn't unheard of for someone with severe developmental disabilities to become violent.

Again, NOWHERE in the company information does it say they offer disabled/handicapped tour guides. Not only would it be disgusting for Dream Tours to offer disabled/handicapped tour guides, it would border on exploitation!

You don't see why the Post would slander and libel a company? Why would the National Enquirer and other tabloids slander and libel? Well, it is done to sell papers, PERIOD. Almost anytime the name Disney is in an article it gets read. These papers know that to sell it has to be something sensational to catch the attention of the readers. Newspapers and magazines are going to the way side so they have to do whatever it takes to make a sale. Lawsuits are rare only because it is so costly to fight the slimy lawyers hired by these rags.
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:58 PM   #40
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I totally believe it. I just think that they are morons for even paying as much as they did. I'm a DVC mbr and my daughter is 4 right now so we go to Disneyland and DisneyWorld off season currently. My Correctional Officer, steroid using brother-in-law and his family are elementary school age children and he has to go now during peak season. When he goes to Disneyland he goes to guest services and tells them that he "cannot stand in long lines" due to some sort of fake foot condition he tells them. They just give him the pass where he can access the "physically disabled" part of the line (i.e. the exit) and gets on obviously faster. And this was suggested to him by other correctional officers that he works with. Oh and his cost was $0. Disney does not even try to ask for a medical documentation. So all of you can do it, too...if you don't have a conscience or morals like my BIL the "peace officer" !
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Old 05-17-2013, 02:29 PM   #41
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Again, my MAIN contention with the article all along has been the misleading comment stating that the company offers 'handicapped or disabled' tour guides. Getting nit picky about ONE line in the company's description is really going to extremes don't you think?

Again, NOWHERE in the company information does it say they offer disabled/handicapped tour guides. Not only would it be disgusting for Dream Tours to offer disabled/handicapped tour guides, it would border on exploitation!

.
The website says Jacie had a "disabling experience". NY Post was told by Ryan Clement (owner) that Jacie has an auto immune disorder and uses a scooter when running her tours.

The article said the fact that at least one of the guides, girlfriend of the owner, uses a scooter and gets preferential access, is passed around among the 1%.

The fact that the company promises no wait time suggests the company is loose with the facts.

How the company promotes on their website and how they promote via word of mouth might be different.
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Old 05-20-2013, 10:43 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by racefanof88 View Post
I still don't buy this story. If, as you say, it would be too much of a hassle for them to act handicapped while trying to maneuver around the park, would it not also be true that it would be a hassle to BE with a handicapped 'tour' guide? The group would have to stay together for them to 'benefit' from the 'guides' handicap, so they would have the same maneuvering hassle.

The handicapped guides don't accompany them everywhere. I know one family who hired the guide to just hang out by major attractions and the parents would just text the guide when they were making their way over to the ride or show.
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Old 05-20-2013, 11:07 AM   #43
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I don't see a problem with it. If I want to hire someone to go to Disney with me, for whatever reason, it's nobody else's business.
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Old 05-21-2013, 12:56 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SueM in MN View Post
25 years ago, many lines were not wheelchair accessible, but almost all of the newer attractions (and many of the older ones) are accessible in the regular (Mainstream) line.
So wheelchair or ECV = front of line has not been true for a long time. Even when there were many attractions with special arrangements for guests using wheelchairs, that didn't always mean shorter wait, just a different place to wait.

Since Small World was mentioned in the article with a "one minute wait" for the disabled tour guide when the regular line was 2 and 1/2 hours .......

This picture shows the handicapped line for Small World.

It is required to be used by guests with mobility devices (like wheelchairs) because the regular line is not accessible. It is also used by some guests with GACs. In our experience, often over 1/2 of the guests/groups using it are using it for that reason - they don't have a mobility device.
Small World doesn't have a 'back door' entrance.
This picture shows a time when the wait was similar or possibly slightly shorter than the wait in the 'regular line.' The handicapped boarding area is toward the left side of the picture, down at the bottom of the ramp.The ramp at the top of the picture is part of the regular line. The ramp people are coming up on the right of the picture, toward you is the exit.

This picture show Small World at a time when the wait in the handicapped area was longer than the wait in the regular line.

My family was at the bottom of the ramp, waiting to get on. The picture is taken from the opposite direct compared to the first picture, looking toward the entrance and exit.
The ramp on the far left of the picture has the people who will get on the next 2 boats.
The ramp in the middle is the exit ramp. The ramp to the far right of the picture is the handicapped line and it went all the way to the entrance and out the gate at the top. People who did not have wheelchairs might have had a shorter wait in the regular line ( in this case, they would have since we saw the people who were just ahead of us entering the regular line get on way before us).

These are some more pictures of Small World that show a longer wait.
The posted wait time for the regular line was 25 minutes and you can see people, at least in this part of the regular line you can see, are widely spaced.


This is the handicapped line at the same time.

The actual entrance to handicapped line is way up where you can see a man and woman in orange shirts. It extends from the front of this picture all the down the ramp that is shown in the pictures in the previous post. All the people to the right of the photo are also part of the handicapped line.
The regular entrance is where you can see a sign in the background, between the heads of 2 people with orange hats.
In this case, people in the handicapped line will be waiting longer.
And, the extra wait can be much longer. One recent trip, my DH and DD had gone to Small World while I went on something DD is not able to go on. I know what time they got into line because DH texted me when they got in the line.
When I arrived at Small World, they had already been waiting for 25 minutes in the handicapped line. I could not get to them since they were in the bottom 1/3 of the handicapped line ramp shown in the picture and the handicapped line ramp was full all the way to the top.
I got in the regular line and planned to meet them later - DH was going to get DD something to drink while they waited for me to be done. 20 minutes later, I got on a boat - 3 boats behind them.
So, I waited 20 minutes (which was the posted time). They waited 45.
They did have to wait for a wheelchair accessible boat, but hadn't let 3 groups who didnt need the wheelchair boat from behind them in that line go past to board, so their wait in the line was not increased more than a few minutes by needing the wheelchair boat.
I rode this very same ride with my, son who required a guest assistance card and had a completely opposite experience from what you have explained. In all cases, including it's a small world, our wait was greatly decreased compared to the regular entrance. There was not one ride that our wait was longer.

I think it is important for those people, who require a guest assistance card, that they understand all facets of what there experiences may be. While no GAC, is for the sole purpose of "cutting the line" or providing a "shorter wait", the reality is that in many cases it often can shorten the wait and provide less congestion.

My point has nothing to do with the article, which I find disgusting. It is yet another example of people taking advantage of assistances created to help assist those, who have medical or mental challenges. Challenges that would otherwise preclude them from being able to experience things in the same manner that those who have no challenges do.
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Old 05-22-2013, 12:07 AM   #45
SueM in MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bocaj1431 View Post
I rode this very same ride with my, son who required a guest assistance card and had a completely opposite experience from what you have explained. In all cases, including it's a small world, our wait was greatly decreased compared to the regular entrance. There was not one ride that our wait was longer.

I think it is important for those people, who require a guest assistance card, that they understand all facets of what there experiences may be. While no GAC, is for the sole purpose of "cutting the line" or providing a "shorter wait", the reality is that in many cases it often can shorten the wait and provide less congestion.

My point has nothing to do with the article, which I find disgusting. It is yet another example of people taking advantage of assistances created to help assist those, who have medical or mental challenges. Challenges that would otherwise preclude them from being able to experience things in the same manner that those who have no challenges do.
The first picture shows a time when the wait was the same or shorter.

The other pictures show longer waits. A lot can also have to do with timing. On our last trip, we came to Spaceship Earth at a time when they were just bringing out one group of guests with disabilities, so they were ready to bring another group in and our wait was short. If we had arrived there just after they had brought a group in, our wait would have been longer.
There are no guarantees - the wait could be shorter, longer or the same.
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