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Old 05-17-2013, 08:03 AM   #16
Pixel Dust
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Originally Posted by jimim View Post
So let me pose a scenario.

When in line u don't have a lot of time to tinker so I'm thinking better to play with just one setting vs messing with multiple ones cause then I might just really mess things up. So

Lets say flash on starting at f 5.6 and 1/125 at ISO 400.

5.6 cause it will help keep my kid and character sharp enough and 125 for movement of Kate in pic.

If I'm underexposed I don't want to open up my f stop cause then I might be too soft and I don't want to decrease my speed cause then I might get blur or shake so is bumping up ISO the best move to save on time and not loose the opportunity?

I know if I open up the f stop I will get an overall brighter pic.

vs slowing the shutter speed down which would only increase light on Kate and character vs background.

So bumping up ISO would increase exposure overall.

Thanks! I like talking things like this out so I k ow I understand it and have it right in my head so I'm not worrying while up there!

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First thing you should know is that, if you keep the flash output power constant, the shutter speed is not going to change the brightness of the subject. The kid/character is going to be the same brightness at 1/200 and 1/15. The reason for that is the duration of the flash when it goes off is extremely brief. So the Canon 430exII flash at 1/8 power has a duration of 1/2000 sec, or full power is 1/520. So for flash, shutter speed doesn't matter. You get the same about of light from the flash at 1/200 and 1/15. If your shutter speed is faster than the flash duration then you would start to see an exposure difference. But I don't even think the 7D would allow those speeds with flash.

Where shutter speed does matters is to expose for the background/shadows or freeze movement. Your understanding of that is correct.

The aperture and ISO would also increase the brightness of the flash and overall scene. You are also correct here.

It looks like you are going to be shooting in manual mode. But you are still keeping your flash in TTL mode? TTL mode for a flash is basically auto mode for the flash. It will change its output based on the scene, even though you are in manual and didn't change anything.

That is just a long winded way of saying, just use the ISO. Increasing the ISO would make the scene brighter. And if you kept the flash in TTL mode, it would automatically reduce it's power so the kid/character wouldn't be too bright. But if the kid/character is too dark/bright, you want to adjust the flash compensation (different from the usual exposure compensation). If you are really bold, you can control the flash output manually.
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Old 05-17-2013, 08:37 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixel Dust View Post

First thing you should know is that, if you keep the flash output power constant, the shutter speed is not going to change the brightness of the subject. The kid/character is going to be the same brightness at 1/200 and 1/15. The reason for that is the duration of the flash when it goes off is extremely brief. So the Canon 430exII flash at 1/8 power has a duration of 1/2000 sec, or full power is 1/520. So for flash, shutter speed doesn't matter. You get the same about of light from the flash at 1/200 and 1/15. If your shutter speed is faster than the flash duration then you would start to see an exposure difference. But I don't even think the 7D would allow those speeds with flash.

Where shutter speed does matters is to expose for the background/shadows or freeze movement. Your understanding of that is correct.

The aperture and ISO would also increase the brightness of the flash and overall scene. You are also correct here.

It looks like you are going to be shooting in manual mode. But you are still keeping your flash in TTL mode? TTL mode for a flash is basically auto mode for the flash. It will change its output based on the scene, even though you are in manual and didn't change anything.

That is just a long winded way of saying, just use the ISO. Increasing the ISO would make the scene brighter. And if you kept the flash in TTL mode, it would automatically reduce it's power so the kid/character wouldn't be too bright. But if the kid/character is too dark/bright, you want to adjust the flash compensation (different from the usual exposure compensation). If you are really bold, you can control the flash output manually.
Ok so I was right in my thinking but is that the best thing to do?

Yes I shoot with the flash in ttl cause I'm still learning. I just started using manual vs shutter or ap priority this year. The only time I comp with the flash is if I get a way too blown out pic of the foreground subject and I. Any tilt my bounce saucer back any further or ill loose the bounce.

The only changes I usually make with my flash is turning on high synch in my camera if I need flash with shutter speeds higher than 250.

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Old 05-17-2013, 08:50 AM   #18
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I think for you situation, you are still learning and you definitely don't want to miss the shot, that is what you want to do. ISO for the background and overall scene, and use your bounce to adjust the brightness of the subject. You are on the right track.

When you have more time at home, you can practice with the flash in manual mode and a still subject. Then change one setting at a time and see what that does.
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Old 05-17-2013, 10:58 AM   #19
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@nvtsallo I have a Nikon D7100 with the sigma 17-50 2.8 OS. Flash Nikon sb-400.
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Old 05-17-2013, 05:12 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Pixel Dust View Post
I think for you situation, you are still learning and you definitely don't want to miss the shot, that is what you want to do. ISO for the background and overall scene, and use your bounce to adjust the brightness of the subject. You are on the right track.

When you have more time at home, you can practice with the flash in manual mode and a still subject. Then change one setting at a time and see what that does.
That's my plan over the weekend at night so I can experiment. I appreciate it very much! Thanks!

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Old 05-17-2013, 05:23 PM   #21
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These are from our trip last week, no flash but a fair amount of color correcting for the ambient light. I carry a micro 4/3 camera so f/4 has similar depth of field as f/8 on full frame (or so I read). Also, Panasonic's premium 12-35 and 35-100 lenses are at their sharpest (which is very sharp) at f/2.8. Yep, wide open! So much for the old "stop down about 2 stops for best sharpness...".



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Old 05-17-2013, 05:31 PM   #22
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These are from our trip last week, no flash but a fair amount of color correcting for the ambient light. I carry a micro 4/3 camera so f/4 has similar depth of field as f/8 on full frame (or so I read). Also, Panasonic's premium 12-35 and 35-100 lenses are at their sharpest (which is very sharp) at f/2.8. Yep, wide open! So much for the old "stop down about 2 stops for best sharpness...".
Bob. Nice shots. So u shot those at f4 and was able to keep everyone sharp. Nice. Thanks for posting!

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Old 05-17-2013, 07:31 PM   #23
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Your character meet photos always look great!
How are you using the flash? Is it direct, diffused or bounced off a wall/ceiling? Are you using a higher ISO and a lower power flash output just as fill?

I believe a lot of people stick to auto, when they use flash. That's when the subject becomes very bright and you get a dark background and shadow.
Thanks!

I always struggle with the character meets. I want to get the photos, but I want to be in the moment enjoying it as well.

I usually set my ISO based on the ambient light. I use the flash TTL but dial back the exposure compensation about 2/3 of a stop. I often just put it in program so I don't have to think about it too much and can enjoy the moment.

I do have a plastic diffuser dome on the flash, but don't know if that really does much. I have recently started bouncing the flash a lot, but have not tried it at Disney. So many of those locations just don't have the best surfaces for bouncing. I shoot in RAW to leave myself as much latitude to fix issues when I have time behind the computer when I have the luxury of time. The character shots are some of my favorites at Disney, so I really just like to play it safe.
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Old 05-17-2013, 10:43 PM   #24
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@nvtsallo I have a Nikon D7100 with the sigma 17-50 2.8 OS. Flash Nikon sb-400.
Thanks. The reason I ask is i am torn on bringing a little 270ex ii or larger 430ex ii for my next trip. I have done a few trips with the 270 but having the larger 600 i am thinking the 430 may have the more raw light for harsh daytime shots. Your thoughts? Were there times you wished you had more power?
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Old 05-18-2013, 06:06 PM   #25
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Thanks!

I always struggle with the character meets. I want to get the photos, but I want to be in the moment enjoying it as well.

I usually set my ISO based on the ambient light. I use the flash TTL but dial back the exposure compensation about 2/3 of a stop. I often just put it in program so I don't have to think about it too much and can enjoy the moment.

I do have a plastic diffuser dome on the flash, but don't know if that really does much. I have recently started bouncing the flash a lot, but have not tried it at Disney. So many of those locations just don't have the best surfaces for bouncing. I shoot in RAW to leave myself as much latitude to fix issues when I have time behind the computer when I have the luxury of time. The character shots are some of my favorites at Disney, so I really just like to play it safe.
If u use one of joe demb saucers like I use u do t need a ceiling or surface to bounce off. U use the saucer tilted forward a bit. I have shot in rooms with crap brown ceilings and my pics didnt take on the color of the ceiling g with the saucer a bit forward and the flash straight up. I love using it at Disney. Not huge and fits in my pocket.

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Old 05-18-2013, 06:56 PM   #26
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If u use one of joe demb saucers like I use u do t need a ceiling or surface to bounce off. U use the saucer tilted forward a bit. I have shot in rooms with crap brown ceilings and my pics didnt take on the color of the ceiling g with the saucer a bit forward and the flash straight up. I love using it at Disney. Not huge and fits in my pocket.

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I actually have been considering getting one of those. Glad to hear you like yours.
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Old 05-19-2013, 01:17 PM   #27
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Thanks. The reason I ask is i am torn on bringing a little 270ex ii or larger 430ex ii for my next trip. I have done a few trips with the 270 but having the larger 600 i am thinking the 430 may have the more raw light for harsh daytime shots. Your thoughts? Were there times you wished you had more power?
The sb 400 have little power to bounce on rooftops. Maybe next time i will bring a sb-700.

I think you will be better with the 430 ex ii.
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:58 PM   #28
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I actually have been considering getting one of those. Glad to hear you like yours.
I also have the Gary fong some and used it o ly a few times as compared to joes saucer. I fe u can control the white balance with his product way easier.

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Old 05-19-2013, 10:28 PM   #29
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The sb 400 have little power to bounce on rooftops. Maybe next time i will bring a sb-700.

I think you will be better with the 430 ex ii.
Thanks. I think i am going to get the 430 ex ii. Still smaller than m 600ex rt.
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Old 05-26-2013, 06:52 PM   #30
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I just came back from DL where I used my flash (C 600RX-ET) on most of my shots (indoor and outdoor character shoots plus outdoor portraits), basically everything except landscapes or scenery shots.

I shoot RAW so getting rid of the color cast isn't a big deal but the flash provides consistent lighting (flash shots usually don't require any WB correction). I usually shot in Manual mode and would quickly blast off a shot while waiting in line to see the character just to see if my settings were producing well exposed photos so I'd be set when my daughters' turn came up.

Another advantage in the outdoor character shoots with flash is that the flash "highlights" the subject of interest (my daughters with character) so when using LR4 I turn down the "Shadows" lighting and people/distractions in the background disappear (or become a lot less noticeable). Without the flash the outdoor lighting on everything would be the same so getting rid of the background emphasis would be a lot tougher!

In the outdoor portraits the use of flash helped me get rid of the daylight shadows so I could shoot with the sun behind my subjects and still get a decent subject exposure.

Last edited by DoDaLeCa; 05-26-2013 at 06:55 PM. Reason: Added more detail
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