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Old 05-17-2013, 07:57 AM   #61
Tonka's Skipper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadddio View Post
We all have the pictures. They're on the Internet and linked from this thread.

It is my opinion, but it isn't just my opinion. Others in this and the other thousand threads have agreed.

I've noticed that you repeatedly try to force your position by making it appear that everyone agrees with you. The interesting thing is that even if that were true, it doesn't make you right or your argument stronger.
You are good at presenting small parts of the discussion and proof.

Please reread the posts on the new pictures. Some have said that they didn't think it was all that big a deal, no one else that I have seen or read have said its nor more sexualized.

Force?.....how? You are entitled to your opinion and everyone else is as well.

I offer my opinion and point out when your discussion twists things around and leave points out, the same as other people have noted.

My discussion is stronger because I said the pictures show a more sexualized Merida, and they are. All you mention is a shoulder? a bit misleading at best.


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Old 05-17-2013, 08:31 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Tonka's Skipper View Post
Please reread the posts on the new pictures. Some have said that they didn't think it was all that big a deal, no one else that I have seen or read have said its nor more sexualized.
If you haven't read any post that stated that the 2d drawings weren't more sexualized, then perhaps you are the one that should go back and read the posts, not me.

That is all I have left to say to you on this subject.
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Old 05-17-2013, 08:48 AM   #63
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I'm sure many people will skip over this novel I've just written, though at least nobody will be able to say I don't try and leave out bits of information

What fascinates me here is the whole... well, Merida central drama. I understand, she's new. She's supposed to represent something more. She's so indivualized and brave and strong and... the same as many of the other girls?

I looove Brave. This movie was so amazing to me, it made me cry, still does whenever I watch it. The scenery is beautiful in the movie. The characters are great and well rounded. Don't even get me started on the soundtrack.

But really, the only thing that comes to mind about Merida that we didn't see with other princesses is the fact that the romantic implications in her story are so very different than the other ones, and not because it's not one of the focal point (like in Mulan, where it's pretty much just an added element to her storyline), but because it's a *different* way of presenting it. The other princesses fall in love, but she doesn't want to get married, and why should she? She's 15 years old (not that it was that uncommon a practice that she should have been so taken aback by it)

Now, that's all to do with the storyline. What about personality though? Does being newer make her personality more important, is that the point I'm missing here? Or was it just hyped so much that people are able to look past the fact that so many of the other princesses shared those same traits!

Her age has nothing to do with it. Half the princesses are in their teens when their story takes place - the way of drawing characters just wasn't to the point where it was quite as easy to make it show back then.

I have to agree to the puzzlement regarding the 'sexualized'. To be fair, it may be from my culture - lots of movies here are rated G that are rated PG13 in the US (I like to think I turned out fine regardless though )



When I look at this picture, yes, I do see more shoulder that was showed in the movie. Everything else I see comes from the 2D-ification (if that wasn't a word before, I guess now it is). And I understand it. That's the way I see things. But just because that's the way *I* see things, doesn't make it invalid for arguments' sake. Her face looks nothing mid twenties to me, it looks youthful and bright and round. Her eyes are as blue as they were in the movie, her hair is as wild as 2D can allow. Her body type is the same - because Merida was always thin to begin with.

Merida is no braver than Mulan or Belle were, just because the premises of her bravery are different. She is no more fierce than Ariel. She doesn't have more of an individualized spirit than Pocahontas and yearning for freedom than Rapunzel. All of the princesses are a good role model, they all have something good to them, something that can be taught to children as a path to follow. Go after your dream, don't let other people's criticism take you down, be different! None of those goals are new with Brave, they come from Cinderella, Snow White, Beauty and the Beast. Saying that she matters in this issue more because she is newer is going against everything Disney was built on.

Merida is a beautiful, strong spirited, passionate young girl, and yes, she is brave. She's also a princess. She can still be all that in glitter, regardless of what it represents.



I'm sure many people will tear this post down, or just not even refer to it. But I just felt like giving my own opinion on it, as everyone is entitled to. I think the point is that regardless how long this thread keeps on going, nobody that's made it this far into the argument will change their mind And it's not a bad thing. The world would be boring if everyone felt the same way, and nobody is posting in here from malicious or troublesome intent. I'm fairly sure this all comes from loving Merida, and that's a good thing



P.S.: Where's the debate about Rapunzel's marketing being with her long blonde hair? Now that's an issue I'm full on board with!
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Old 05-17-2013, 09:26 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadddio View Post
If you haven't read any post that stated that the 2d drawings weren't more sexualized, then perhaps you are the one that should go back and read the posts, not me.

That is all I have left to say to you on this subject.
I would be happy with that, as you again didn't change anything.

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Old 05-17-2013, 09:30 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarieLightning View Post
I'm sure many people will skip over this novel I've just written, though at least nobody will be able to say I don't try and leave out bits of information

What fascinates me here is the whole... well, Merida central drama. I understand, she's new. She's supposed to represent something more. She's so indivualized and brave and strong and... the same as many of the other girls?

I looove Brave. This movie was so amazing to me, it made me cry, still does whenever I watch it. The scenery is beautiful in the movie. The characters are great and well rounded. Don't even get me started on the soundtrack.

But really, the only thing that comes to mind about Merida that we didn't see with other princesses is the fact that the romantic implications in her story are so very different than the other ones, and not because it's not one of the focal point (like in Mulan, where it's pretty much just an added element to her storyline), but because it's a *different* way of presenting it. The other princesses fall in love, but she doesn't want to get married, and why should she? She's 15 years old (not that it was that uncommon a practice that she should have been so taken aback by it)

Now, that's all to do with the storyline. What about personality though? Does being newer make her personality more important, is that the point I'm missing here? Or was it just hyped so much that people are able to look past the fact that so many of the other princesses shared those same traits!

Her age has nothing to do with it. Half the princesses are in their teens when their story takes place - the way of drawing characters just wasn't to the point where it was quite as easy to make it show back then.

I have to agree to the puzzlement regarding the 'sexualized'. To be fair, it may be from my culture - lots of movies here are rated G that are rated PG13 in the US (I like to think I turned out fine regardless though )



When I look at this picture, yes, I do see more shoulder that was showed in the movie. Everything else I see comes from the 2D-ification (if that wasn't a word before, I guess now it is). And I understand it. That's the way I see things. But just because that's the way *I* see things, doesn't make it invalid for arguments' sake. Her face looks nothing mid twenties to me, it looks youthful and bright and round. Her eyes are as blue as they were in the movie, her hair is as wild as 2D can allow. Her body type is the same - because Merida was always thin to begin with.

Merida is no braver than Mulan or Belle were, just because the premises of her bravery are different. She is no more fierce than Ariel. She doesn't have more of an individualized spirit than Pocahontas and yearning for freedom than Rapunzel. All of the princesses are a good role model, they all have something good to them, something that can be taught to children as a path to follow. Go after your dream, don't let other people's criticism take you down, be different! None of those goals are new with Brave, they come from Cinderella, Snow White, Beauty and the Beast. Saying that she matters in this issue more because she is newer is going against everything Disney was built on.

Merida is a beautiful, strong spirited, passionate young girl, and yes, she is brave. She's also a princess. She can still be all that in glitter, regardless of what it represents.



I'm sure many people will tear this post down, or just not even refer to it. But I just felt like giving my own opinion on it, as everyone is entitled to. I think the point is that regardless how long this thread keeps on going, nobody that's made it this far into the argument will change their mind And it's not a bad thing. The world would be boring if everyone felt the same way, and nobody is posting in here from malicious or troublesome intent. I'm fairly sure this all comes from loving Merida, and that's a good thing


P.S.: Where's the debate about Rapunzel's marketing being with her long blonde hair? Now that's an issue I'm full on board with!
Well put!....as you said each has their view at this point.

AKK
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Old 05-20-2013, 02:22 PM   #66
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OK! VENTING FOR TWO SECONDS!

1. Mulan is not a princess. STOP MAKING HER ONE!
2. Start regularly recognizing Pocahontas as a princess.
3. Princess Kita from Atlantis is not recognized at all!
4. Princess Aloiynwe..remember her?
5. It was a real push to make a pixar character a princess. If we are doing that, lets make princess Ada a legit princess.
6. Get over Merida's make over. She has to go through improvements to become a princess. That is just the price you have to pay. She looks fine, and if kids are looking up to a cartoon character as a role model, something is wrong. Princesses are fun and all, but looking up to them as a legit role model is probably not the best.

Venting over...
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Old 05-20-2013, 03:15 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by DrivnMeUpTheWall-E View Post
This has gotten so out of hand. The makeover was solely to fit her in with the cartoonish princesses.


Her features and look have only changed as to fit in with the Rapunzels and Cinderellas. They conveniently leave this picture out of the story:


Here is how she would look, unchanged. Stands out a bit, don't you think?:

http://images6.fanpop.com/image/phot...5-1039-556.jpg

Here is a new one with all of them together. You can see why the makeover was necessary:

http://images6.fanpop.com/image/phot...7-1179-624.png
I never thought about it like this. Then again, where does it end? What are they going to do about Princess Vanellope? Ignore her or give her a makeover, too?
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:48 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdisz View Post
OK! VENTING FOR TWO SECONDS!

1. Mulan is not a princess. STOP MAKING HER ONE!
2. Start regularly recognizing Pocahontas as a princess.
3. Princess Kita from Atlantis is not recognized at all!
4. Princess Aloiynwe..remember her?
5. It was a real push to make a pixar character a princess. If we are doing that, lets make princess Ada a legit princess.
6. Get over Merida's make over. She has to go through improvements to become a princess. That is just the price you have to pay. She looks fine, and if kids are looking up to a cartoon character as a role model, something is wrong. Princesses are fun and all, but looking up to them as a legit role model is probably not the best.

Venting over...
I don't mind your vent, I'm a "to each his own" kind of person. I did not like the new Merida, that is where I stood on this. I think you make a lot of valid points here. The only thing I don't like is when you said there must be something wrong if a little girl looks up to a princess as a role model. I take it personally and offensive as I have a 4 year old daughter who completely admires and looks up to the princesses and I don't see anything wrong with that and there is nothing wrong with her for doing so. Who did you look up to when you were 4?? I doubt it was any real human figure. Kids don't know fantasy from reality at that age.
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Old 05-23-2013, 03:20 AM   #69
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Agreed. Children take their role models from both real life and fiction, as do many adults. I don't think it matters whether the fictional character is from a book or a cartoon. Disney even has books promoting the positive characteristics of their princesses, making use of the fact they are role models. Did you know a princess brushes her hair? My daughter has a book that says so and actually it got her doing it herself. To claim they aren't or should not be role models ignores Disney's own marketing of them.
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