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Old 05-09-2013, 10:49 PM   #46
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It is genuinely not my intent to offend anyone so I apologize. I only post what loosely qualifies as theme park related news. It can be fun and interesting to discuss what's happening at other theme parks.
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:50 PM   #47
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The only things that I know about the HP area is that Dueling Dragons was rethemed, there is a new ride and some HP-related shops and than overall the theming was done very well. While I think Dueling Dragons is a very good roller coaster, I know nothing of the other ride and, since I am not a HP fan, I have little interest in the overall theming. As such, if I find myself in IoA, I will go check it out, but its not a must-do for me.

In September. We have a nine-day trip planned. Six of those days will be at Disney. One of the other days is currently up in the air for UA, IoA, SW or none of the above. We'll see how it goes, but the mere fact that there is a HP area isn't causing us to race on over.
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:18 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by mvk View Post
I have an Amusement Park 5 minutes from my house that has some of the best roller coasters and thrill rides in the country. We have season passes to that park, and go at least 3 times per month from May-September. There is no theming though, its just rides. We have much more fun at Disney because of the theming, and going back to that park once we get back from Disney is such a letdown.

At the same time, if that same ride was Avatar, you won't be jumping to the defense of Disney when people bash the land because they don't like Avatar.
Beeeeeep. Wrong. If you've been following you would notice that I very much approve of the Avatarland. It is a vehicle that lends itself to imagination and creativity regardless to if you liked the movie or not! Lets hope Disney doesn't mess up this huge opportunity.
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:12 PM   #49
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Beeeeeep. Wrong. If you've been following you would notice that I very much approve of the Avatarland. It is a vehicle that lends itself to imagination and creativity regardless to if you liked the movie or not! Lets hope Disney doesn't mess up this huge opportunity.
~What a fabulous post, Mr. Pirate! I couldn't agree more & can't wait for more details on Avatarland.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:53 PM   #50
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I disagree, I don't think the Beast's castle, the Little Mermaid attraction, and the Mine Train Mountain are simple buildings. The skeletal structure of the buildings are the easy part of construction. The rockwork/exterior artwork involved in new Fantasyland is much more involved than simply building facades to cover the show buildings.

They haven't even released images for what Diagon Alley is going to look like except for the one concept piece, how could you possibly tell what the buildings are going to be?
It doesn't take 6 months to "sculpt" a mountain on some pre-fab'd and pre-cut forms. If you look at the way Disney does their mountains these days, The general layout is already designed and laid out via CAD. They then have the rebar forms for the mountain contours fabricated and put into place in a virtual grid. Take those forms, cover them in concrete. THEN you will have an artist go back over that form and add some detail work, and the painting of that form.

None of the exterior work is loadbearing. None of it is going to have the same level of difficulty to engineer and construct as the load bearing structures. I highly doubt there is even much in the way of building codes or inspection stuff you'd need to worry about with the exterior work.

That said..... If you want to get into details about what is going on inside the buildings, we can do that too if you want.

i will give Disney a little credit in that as a slightly larger overall area, The construction process could theoretically take longer than Universal's new HP section built over old Amity. I'll even give Disney a little extra time for the Mine train due to it's last minute addition to the plan. Overall though, I still don't think Disney get's as good of a grade on their Construction efforts as Universal since it's obvious Universal is willing to put a lot more effort into building new things quickly, while at the same time they've spent a CONSIDERABLE less amount of time and energy in patting their own backs on "look at what we are doing!" to the media and the public.


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So youre comparing Universals history and pedigree to Disney's?

Disney is (was) the theme park master. The leader. The innovator. They're the one who set the pace. Were the standard. Expectations of the magic were and still are centered around Disney for most. So the fact that Universal, a company owned by Comcast, takes short cuts is hardly comparable on the same level as when Disney does it. Shame on anyone who holds Disney accountable to Universals standards!

It's getting hard to discuss Disney with People who fail to recognize what made Disney "Disney" in the first place.
And to be honest.... I Really don't think it's fair for anyone to look at the backside of show buildings and complain about the lack of detail. Universal is guilty of it... Disney is Guilty of it. And it's not a new development. Look at the backstage side of the World Showcase sometime. Hell, Just Google-Maps and look at Mexico. You have a nice Pyramid up front, but the entire show building is pretty bland beyond that entrance since the building is hidden from the general public's view.

Or even "old Fantasyland". Behind the facades you see from the park, the show buildings are pretty dull. The primary reason the ole' Fantasyland Skyway remained in place for so long was because it helped obstruct the view of the Haunted Mansion show building.

The same thing existed in the Original Disneyland too. Remember that the park was originally built by Movie people. They understood the concept of building your set pieces so that everything seen by the camera (the guest) told the story, But that anything that the camera couldn't see there was no reason to waste the time/money/effort to flesh out.


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~LOL. I can't BELIEVE people are comparing WWOHP to frickin' Fantasyland! No wonder Disney's themepark attendance is up by 73%!!! This coming from a Disney fan! Ugh... I better call it a night.
Remember all the buzz 3-4 years ago? "New Fantasyland is Disney's Answer to the WWoHP!"

Those of us who knew better though never believed that though because we understood the real reasons for Disney's expansion. (Park Capacity augmentation, adding another needed TS restaurant to the park, Merch sales). if ANYTHING is Disney's "answer" to WWoHP, I'm thinking the Avatar project would probably be the best candidate for the label.

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I understand you're point and it is true that I think Universal is raising the bar in the theme park industry at a higher rate than Disney at this point but I will always hold Disney to a higher standard because that is where they came from.

I'm sorry to have insulted you (truly) but arguing what Universl does to what Disney does simply doesn't tell the whole story. There was a time just a few years ago where virtually nobody would even mention Disney and universal in the same breathe but thanks to Disney's (seemingly) incompetence and/or arrogance this is no longer the case.
To add to this.... In some ways this is nothing new, and it's kind of sad.

Disney was first. Disney wrote the book, and for decades continued to be the leader. In the past 10+ years however, Disney has not shown that same commitment to being the leader, and so newcomers who have read Disney's book and learned from watching them are starting to take the lead.

This is something that happens time and time again in every industry. It's sort of the same idea as what happened in the photography industry. You Had Kodak write the book, and be the primary innovator for decades..... until they started to rest on their laurals and newcomers started to come up and take the lead.... next thing you know you had the Digital revolution and Kodak couldn't recover.

When a company has the kind of headstart, history, and name brand recongnition as Disney has, It has a lot of momentum in the mindshare of the consumer. Even after they lose their lead in innnovations, that momentum can keep them in the lead when it comes to public opinions for YEARS.

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Originally Posted by Angel Ariel View Post
Have you been to WWoHP? It's very well done. Not without its faults (but then, neither is NFL) - but the theming is very good.

I wasn't overly impressed with the rest of IOA (it's OK, but not great, in terms of theming), but when I was in Hogsmeade, I felt like I was in the films. Much like i felt like I was inside the ballroom of the movie when I ate at Be Our Guest.

Why is it that it has to be either or? Can a true Disney fan not appreciate when a non-Disney company does something right..or is that somehow "betraying" Disney? Ridiculous.
Welcome to the Dis..... There are a LOT of people around here who have their Disney colored glasses on and who refuse to believe that anybody can do something on the same level (or better) than what Disney does. There are some here who think that if it's not Disney, then you are looking at an amusement park on the same level as Six Flags/Cedar Fair/insert-local-park-here, Even though in reality it's pretty safe to say the big 3 players in Florida (Disney, Universal, SeaWorld/Busch Gardens) are all operating at a level above the local/regional amusement parks around the country


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I agree that Disney is lagging behind, and it is frustrating to see. The new Carsland in CA gives me hope that Disney is turning things around. The purchase of Lucasfilm gives me hope that they'll continue in the Carsland vein and bring something awesome to the table with the Star Wars universe.
What worries/scares me about Carsland is what Disney may decide to do next. Carsland was part of a MASSIVE investment to completely rework DCA to try and correct the embarressment that park had become. DCA had the "advantage" of being in the Powers That Be's back yard where they could see the problems on a regular basis.... and also of being part of a resort that has a vastly different demographic (mostly local, repeat visitors), which were avoiding the park and helping to highlight it's shortcomings.

I'm not sure if we will ever see the same level of commitment in Florida. We all know that at least 2 of the parks in Florida have several major shortcomings that need addressed.... but because the Florida Demo is one that is mostly first-timers.... and who are locked into visiting the resort (thanks to ME, and coming soon, Magicbands and the like), You don't have the massive difference in attendence numbers which highlight those problems to the people on the west coast who control the purse.

I'm truly interested to see what actually becomes of the Avatar Project because to me it will be very telling on how much Disney is willing to put into unique attractions for the Florida Parks.... or if they will continue to be happy playing it cheap and only giving us clones of attractions designed for other parks.

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Originally Posted by mvk View Post
No, people are trying to pump up Universal for building Diagon Alley in 2+ years and fault Disney for building New Fantasyland in 4 years, without taking into account New Fantasyland is over twice the size of what Diagon Alley will be, and not even knowing what is going to be contained in it.

I like New Fantasyland. My kids love it. Neither they, nor me, have any interest in Harry Potter, so its an easy decision to make.

Disney Parks are at +73% and Universal was only at +12%. People go to see Disney because of the classic characters, the classic attractions, and the blend of the new with the old. Has the shine of the first phase of Harry Potter worn off already? As someone stated previously in this thread, does that really have the staying power to hold up over time?
Disney also has the advantage of size, Marketing budgets.... and massive amounts of brainwashed guests. There are tons of families out there they believe they need to make a Disney trip for their kids, JUST because it's Disney. They know absolutely nothing about what is actually at the parks, or what it's like in comparison to other options in the Florida market.



Oh... and if you want to factor size and construction time frames.... Why not look at EVERYTHING Universal is building in that park. You've got Diagon Alley, which is the new construction. You also have the Transformers Ride which is opening next month, after Demolision on the old structure on that site didn't begin until last spring (about 1yr). You've also got them adding a TON of stuff over at the Springfield/World Expo area of the park to flesh out the who Springfield vibe. (complete with Krusty's and Moe's Tavern). The work in the Springfield area alone could almost be compared directly to the work done to the Toontown/Circus area of the New Fantasyland...... and that Springfield construction didn't start until earlier this year.


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Originally Posted by mvk View Post
I have an Amusement Park 5 minutes from my house that has some of the best roller coasters and thrill rides in the country. We have season passes to that park, and go at least 3 times per month from May-September. There is no theming though, its just rides. We have much more fun at Disney because of the theming, and going back to that park once we get back from Disney is such a letdown.

At the same time, if that same ride was Avatar, you won't be jumping to the defense of Disney when people bash the land because they don't like Avatar.
For the Record... I was one of the biggest supporters of the Avatar section when it was annonced.... I've just gotten tired of having to constantly make my case to the blind "It's not Disney!" haters. I've always believed that the Avatar area, if down right, Has a TON of potential to not only be amazing, but to fit seemlessly into Animal Kingdom and provide an area which they can address the biggest issues in AK.

I also just hate the name "Avatarland" because it really tends to get the whole "dances with smurfs" image stuck in people's heads, and think it's be better from a PR standpoint to think of it as "Pandora", since it's the planet that has the potential.

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Originally Posted by Peter Pirate 2 View Post
Beeeeeep. Wrong. If you've been following you would notice that I very much approve of the Avatarland. It is a vehicle that lends itself to imagination and creativity regardless to if you liked the movie or not! Lets hope Disney doesn't mess up this huge opportunity.
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Old 05-10-2013, 02:43 PM   #51
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It doesn't take 6 months to "sculpt" a mountain on some pre-fab'd and pre-cut forms. ...
The fact is, it doesn't matter how long it takes to complete the project. When it's done, it will be done. I don't understand why you are trying to make construction time frames into some kind of competition. In fact, I'm sure why you are assuming that there is direct competition between WDW and US. If there truly is a competition, Universal is losing. After all, the bulk of the visitors to central Florida don't go there primarily to visit Universal Studios. US is a day or two tacked on to a larger WDW visit (if at all) for most visitors.

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Originally Posted by DCTooTall View Post
If you look at the way Disney does their mountains these days, The general layout is already designed and laid out via CAD. They then have the rebar forms for the mountain contours fabricated and put into place in a virtual grid. Take those forms, cover them in concrete. THEN you will have an artist go back over that form and add some detail work, and the painting of that form.

None of the exterior work is loadbearing. None of it is going to have the same level of difficulty to engineer and construct as the load bearing structures. I highly doubt there is even much in the way of building codes or inspection stuff you'd need to worry about with the exterior work.
Forgive me, but I'm not imagining huge bumps in difficulty to build square buildings out of steel. Steel wants to become big square buildings, after all.
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Overall though, I still don't think Disney get's as good of a grade on their Construction efforts as Universal since it's obvious Universal is willing to put a lot more effort into building new things quickly, while at the same time they've spent a CONSIDERABLE less amount of time and energy in patting their own backs on "look at what we are doing!" to the media and the public.
Extra points go to the builder who can throw up something fast? That doesn't seem like a good business model.
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Remember all the buzz 3-4 years ago? "New Fantasyland is Disney's Answer to the WWoHP!"
I'm thinking that most of that buzz was generated by people on the internet. I would be surprised if Disney ever mentioned HP in a press release about anything.
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Originally Posted by DCTooTall View Post
Disney was first. Disney wrote the book, and for decades continued to be the leader. In the past 10+ years however, Disney has not shown that same commitment to being the leader, and so newcomers who have read Disney's book and learned from watching them are starting to take the lead.
Who are these newcomers who have taken the lead from Disney? I'm not seeing that, at all. Disney's profits are way up. People flock to the area to go to WDW. Some of those people also go to US, but certainly more people by far are there on a Disney vacation and also go to US (or not) than those who are on a Universal vacation and also spend a day at WDW (or not).
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Originally Posted by DCTooTall View Post
When a company has the kind of headstart, history, and name brand recongnition as Disney has, It has a lot of momentum in the mindshare of the consumer. Even after they lose their lead in innnovations, that momentum can keep them in the lead when it comes to public opinions for YEARS.
That sounds like an excuse for why your theory that US is the new leader can't be supported.
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Welcome to the Dis..... There are a LOT of people around here who have their Disney colored glasses on and who refuse to believe that anybody can do something on the same level (or better) than what Disney does.
This is a Disney forum, after all. If you go to a US forum, I bet that it would be chock full of US lovers. Is there such a thing as a US forum?
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Originally Posted by DCTooTall View Post
There are some here who think that if it's not Disney, then you are looking at an amusement park on the same level as Six Flags/Cedar Fair/insert-local-park-here, Even though in reality it's pretty safe to say the big 3 players in Florida (Disney, Universal, SeaWorld/Busch Gardens) are all operating at a level above the local/regional amusement parks around the country
Of course US and Seaworld are operating on a different level than a typical amusement park. However, you've ignored the reason why. If those parks didn't operate at that higher level, they would fail miserably because no one would take time out of their Disney vacations to go to a third rate park.
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I'm truly interested to see what actually becomes of the Avatar Project because to me it will be very telling on how much Disney is willing to put into unique attractions for the Florida Parks.... or if they will continue to be happy playing it cheap and only giving us clones of attractions designed for other parks.
Replicating strong attractions from other parks is a model that works for a reason. US would use it if they could.
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Originally Posted by DCTooTall View Post
Disney also has the advantage of size, Marketing budgets.... and massive amounts of brainwashed guests. There are tons of families out there they believe they need to make a Disney trip for their kids, JUST because it's Disney. They know absolutely nothing about what is actually at the parks, or what it's like in comparison to other options in the Florida market.
That also reads as an excuse for US not being more competitive.
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For the Record... I was one of the biggest supporters of the Avatar section when it was annonced.... I've just gotten tired of having to constantly make my case to the blind "It's not Disney!" haters.
Are Disney haters any better than Disney lovers? At least this is the right forum for the diehard supporters.
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Old 05-10-2013, 02:49 PM   #52
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This sounds awesome! Such a huge fan of the wwohp and I can only imagine how insanely cool this will be!
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:42 PM   #53
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This sounds awesome! Such a huge fan of the wwohp and I can only imagine how insanely cool this will be!
For those of us with no clue about HP, what's so special about a bank?
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:52 PM   #54
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For those of us with no clue about HP, what's so special about a bank?
The roller coaster...which was evident in the movie.
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Old 05-10-2013, 08:16 PM   #55
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The roller coaster...which was evident in the movie.
Lots if us have never seen a HP movie and weren't aware that there was a roller coaster in one of them.
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Old 05-10-2013, 08:21 PM   #56
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Lots if us have never seen a HP movie and weren't aware that there was a roller coaster in one of them.
Which is why I pointed it out. Geez, got a chip on your shoulder, dude?
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Old 05-10-2013, 09:47 PM   #57
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There are tons of families out there they believe they need to make a Disney trip for their kids, JUST because it's Disney. They know absolutely nothing about what is actually at the parks, or what it's like in comparison to other options in the Florida market.
Love IOA and HP, cant wait for US and HP2, but I would recommend WDW (have many many times) to anyone taking the kids to FL for a one time trip. Actually by the largest margin you can imagine.
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Old 05-13-2013, 02:48 PM   #58
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Lots if us have never seen a HP movie and weren't aware that there was a roller coaster in one of them.
Never seen a Harry potter movie!?!?! First off, the books are awesome and not just for kids. Same with the movies. Take the time to get through the first couple movies and you will thank yourself for it. They are all around extremely enjoyable. Took awhile to convince my DW to give them a shot and she is so glad she did.
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:10 PM   #59
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Never seen a Harry potter movie!?!?! First off, the books are awesome and not just for kids. Same with the movies. Take the time to get through the first couple movies and you will thank yourself for it. They are all around extremely enjoyable. Took awhile to convince my DW to give them a shot and she is so glad she did.
I was in the "I'm not reading the books or watching the movies" crowd simply because everyone else was doing it at the time, and just thought it was stupid. Well, about a year and a half ago I was convinced to pick up the first book and give it a try. I got it, totally understood why people loved it, I read all 7 books as fast as I could.

I haven't seen all the movies yet, I've only seen the first 5. I will say that I thought the first one was the worst, I saw bits and pieces of it years ago, maybe that's why I didnt want to read/watch until recently. Needless to say, I can not wait to visit Universal.
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Old 05-13-2013, 05:31 PM   #60
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Never seen a Harry potter movie!?!?! First off, the books are awesome and not just for kids. Same with the movies. Take the time to get through the first couple movies and you will thank yourself for it. They are all around extremely enjoyable. Took awhile to convince my DW to give them a shot and she is so glad she did.
I'll pass. I'm not that curious as to why there is a roller coaster in a bank.
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