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Old 04-22-2013, 11:41 AM   #106
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Wow I came on here to see some pics this topic is a life of its own now!
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:03 PM   #107
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You're right...I shouldn't have used "charity"... That wasn't the right context to use it in.

I was commenting that Disney's goal is maximum profit...and always has been. The antithesis of a profit business would be a charity.

The comment that started this was about the "haves and have nots"
Disney has never cared publically or privately about "have nots". Never once.

I wasn't referring to any particular travelers at wdw...but see it was a bad choice of metaphor and apologize. My bad

I mistook your intent. Though I feel like I have read the intent that I mistook in other posts on the board. I would hate to think people in the deluxe resorts are looking too far down their nose at folks in the moderates or the value resorts.
While I stay at the moderates and look at the values thinking "I'd prefer not to stay there", I'm thrilled that people can. (Of course, I'm kinda curious about Art of Animation).
I would like to think that as many folks can enjoy Disney as possible. I know that I'm luckier than most to have enjoyed the resort as much as I have. I'm not saying that visiting Disney makes you a better person - but the joy/happy that they are selling certainly can't hurt.

Also - I could probably "save up" and do Deluxe instead, but I have yet to see the value versus cost.

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Old 04-22-2013, 12:44 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Spacedog1975 View Post
that people can. (Of course, I'm kinda curious about Art of Animation).
I would like to think that as many folks can enjoy Disney as possible.
And this is basically what i was agreeing with/commenting about.

I too...like the vast majority of people on the street and most people on the boards...would like to think the same.

But it has never been that way and never will be. Back in the early days of disneyland...it was simply a matter of distance. If you wanted to take the kids and drive hours or days to get there - then you could do it. Perhaps the early days in florida too...but over the last 20-30 years is has been forever altered to be an "Exclusive" location based on costs. There are tiers within that...but that doesn't change that nobody "poor" goes to WDW...never did, never will. Disposable income comes with a certain social rung...and vacations are nothing if 100% disposable income. (there are some exceptions like make a wish...but the majority of travel is personal economics and choice)

They would charge $300 a night for caribbean if they could (they're not that far off)...and would charge $900 if they could for polynesian (they're not that far off).

And they'd charge $100 a day for some type of "exclusive" fast pass system if they could.

No questions...wouldn't hesitate.

And if there was some type of public backlash (never witnessed in Florida)...they would justify it as "in keeping with competitors" or "necessary to maintain our world renowned quality and family entertainment"

which is paradoxical...because if anything the quality has probably slipped on the whole as the prices increased over recent years.
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:46 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by John Paul View Post
Wow I came on here to see some pics this topic is a life of its own now!
all news and rumors threads end up being like this...there is never that much going on so we have to beat the horse a little
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:37 PM   #110
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I would like to think that as many folks can enjoy Disney as possible.
Me to, but truth be told-it's only so big. I mean look around when your there-its pretty much wall to wall now. Just think if they built 100 more resorts at $59 a night? I think some on here would finally praise Disney for this, but it would certainly ruin the place.
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Old 04-22-2013, 02:28 PM   #111
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Me to, but truth be told-it's only so big. I mean look around when your there-its pretty much wall to wall now. Just think if they built 100 more resorts at $59 a night? I think some on here would finally praise Disney for this, but it would certainly ruin the place.
They would need a ton more park space. Of course the parks are made to drive the resorts, not the other way around. I'm certainly OK with there being a price to pay to go to Disney. It is not an inexpensive vacation even at the moderate level (probably not even at the "value level").

My initial distress has a lot to do with negativity around free dining and other promos that Disney runs. I did free dining last year for 8 days, and it was still nearly a $3000 vacation for two people. Not exactly an entitlement or a handout - just careful shopping and planning. I like to think of everyone when they get to the park as one big happy family. I try to be nice and smile to people I don't know because that's the way I like to be treated when I'm there. I don't worry whether they are coming from Grand Floridian or Pop Century or Days Inn.
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Old 04-22-2013, 02:39 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by jade1

Me to, but truth be told-it's only so big. I mean look around when your there-its pretty much wall to wall now.
Not gonna be able to go with you on this one...

Wdw doesn't NOT have an overcrowding problem.
It doesn't have a hotel room shortage problem and the parks are nowhere near overcrowded.

On certain days...perhaps...but on the whole not even close.

It has been this way since animal kingdom and the west side were built...I not before.

Don't be tricked Into thinking that since the line for soarin and midway mania are 90 minutes...that there is a crowding issue.
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Old 04-22-2013, 02:46 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
Not gonna be able to go with you on this one...

Wdw doesn't NOT have an overcrowding problem.
It doesn't have a hotel room shortage problem and the parks are nowhere near overcrowded.

On certain days...perhaps...but on the whole not even close.

It has been this way since animal kingdom and the west side were built...I not before.

Don't be tricked Into thinking that since the line for soarin and midway mania are 90 minutes...that there is a crowding issue.
Good points, we do travel busy weeks (but good Lord think of those weeks) and also the headliners are much longer, but 100 new "Low Value" resorts would still ruin it IMO. I even think just dropping the prices in 1/2 on the current resorts would.

My point really is to address the "wish everyone that wanted could go" issue by making it affordable. There just isn't room for that.
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Old 04-22-2013, 02:58 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Spacedog1975 View Post
They would need a ton more park space. Of course the parks are made to drive the resorts, not the other way around. I'm certainly OK with there being a price to pay to go to Disney. It is not an inexpensive vacation even at the moderate level (probably not even at the "value level").

My initial distress has a lot to do with negativity around free dining and other promos that Disney runs. I did free dining last year for 8 days, and it was still nearly a $3000 vacation for two people. Not exactly an entitlement or a handout - just careful shopping and planning. I like to think of everyone when they get to the park as one big happy family. I try to be nice and smile to people I don't know because that's the way I like to be treated when I'm there. I don't worry whether they are coming from Grand Floridian or Pop Century or Days Inn.
Yep agreed. Its actually "No Additional Charge" Dining.

But your right-even the lowest end packages are expensive for most folks, so that limits a lot to once in a lifetime, some rarely, and some never-unfortunately.

Also agree with the Mod or Deluxe assessment. How would anyone have a clue what resort a park guest is going back to? Even if they have addition FP+-no way to know. Makes no sense at all.
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:56 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
You're right...I shouldn't have used "charity"... That wasn't the right context to use it in.

I was commenting that Disney's goal is maximum profit...and always has been. The antithesis of a profit business would be a charity.

The comment that started this was about the "haves and have nots"
Disney has never cared publically or privately about "have nots". Never once.

I wasn't referring to any particular travelers at wdw...but see it was a bad choice of metaphor and apologize. My bad
~Bizarre. So far, you've been labeled as an "elitist" and a "left wing socialist" in one day. Is this even possible? Again, it was extremely nice of you to apologize but I was not offended in the least -- I just didn't read it that way. We all perceive things differently, so any poster is well within their right to be "offended." Generally speaking, some posts "appear" to have an inferiority complex or something. If someone likes free dining and the values, that's their business -- there is no need to "justify" or "explain" -- and, there is absolutely no reason to feel judged or "looked down" upon.
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:47 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spacedog1975 View Post
They would need a ton more park space. Of course the parks are made to drive the resorts, not the other way around. I'm certainly OK with there being a price to pay to go to Disney. It is not an inexpensive vacation even at the moderate level (probably not even at the "value level").

My initial distress has a lot to do with negativity around free dining and other promos that Disney runs. I did free dining last year for 8 days, and it was still nearly a $3000 vacation for two people. Not exactly an entitlement or a handout - just careful shopping and planning. I like to think of everyone when they get to the park as one big happy family. I try to be nice and smile to people I don't know because that's the way I like to be treated when I'm there. I don't worry whether they are coming from Grand Floridian or Pop Century or Days Inn.
Well said and I think alot of people here feel the same way
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:52 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by fr spodo komodo View Post
I would love if Disney made fast passes exclusive to delude resort guests like what is done at universal.
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Good idea or maybe resort guest get 6 fp and non resort get 3 in regards to MM+
My problem with this is with the way Disney is going with their Fastpass and expanding upon it is FP+, is there is no way they could realistically do this successfully without completely destroying things for a huge group of people.

Universal has only a small fraction of the hotel rooms that Disney has.... and it's been confirmed that the Express Pass benefit is not being extended to their new Value/Moderate hotel. With the small number of rooms and potential guests, it's quite easy for Universal to support the Express benefit exclusively for onsite "deluxe" guest's without a huge negative impact to the rest of their guests.

Disney on the other hand has a HUGE number of hotel rooms and potential guests. There is no way they could support a system similar to the Universal Express without completely destroying the benefit. I could see Disney being able to support something if they limited it to JUST the Deluxe guests.... but then they'd end up alienating all the DVC owners [who can't get it because with DVC capacity, you start getting into the territory of overloading the system], all the non-Deluxe guests, and EVERYONE who is offsite..... including the Locals... and potentially AP holders... who are already feeling like they are getting screwed by the new FP+ system w/ it's reservation requirements.

Already the existing Fastpass System is walking a fine line between the FP benefit and the adverse impact to the Standby lines. With FP+ Disney is really pushing it's luck to try and "improve" the system, but there are already reports of the standby impact getting even worse.... to the point of almost being unbearable. If Disney then tries to flood the FP system with even MORE FP users in an attempt to match the Universal express benefit, you have the potential to completely break the standby lines beyond any hope of redemption.


With Disney's massive attempts to get people to spend more time in the shops, I'm highly wary of any major attempts to further expand the FP system to increase the capacity/benefit for onsite guests. They simply have too many hotel rooms onsite and have started engineering the parks towards FP too much for me to see any hope for locals, AP holders, and offsite guests to not end up almost having a steerage level experience in the parks if they end up doing that. (And since everyone is paying the same cost-per-day to enter the parks, I feel that within the parks everyone should have the same [or nearly the same] opportunity to get their money's worth out of the experience. If you up FP capacity to the point that only 100 guests per hour get to expereience the attraction from the standby.... and then reserve FPs for people staying onsite, Then the non onsite guests are no longer getting the same opportunities within the park.)




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Wow I came on here to see some pics this topic is a life of its own now!

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Old 04-24-2013, 04:17 PM   #118
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~Bizarre. So far, you've been labeled as an "elitist" and a "left wing socialist" in one day. Is this even possible? Again, it was extremely nice of you to apologize but I was not offended in the least -- I just didn't read it that way. We all perceive things differently, so any poster is well within their right to be "offended." Generally speaking, some posts "appear" to have an inferiority complex or something. If someone likes free dining and the values, that's their business -- there is no need to "justify" or "explain" -- and, there is absolutely no reason to feel judged or "looked down" upon.
I often tip toe the line between Trotsky and Franco
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:22 AM   #119
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I try to be nice and smile to people I don't know because that's the way I like to be treated when I'm there. I don't worry whether they are coming from Grand Floridian or Pop Century or Days Inn.
Hey, I've stayed at each of those hotels (Days Inn '79, GF 2000, Pop '08) so I get THREE smiles!

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Originally Posted by Spacedog1975 View Post

While I stay at the moderates and look at the values thinking "I'd prefer not to stay there", I'm thrilled that people can. (Of course, I'm kinda curious about Art of Animation).

Also - I could probably "save up" and do Deluxe instead, but I have yet to see the value versus cost.
Me too. I love Wilderness Lodge, the Polynesian, and the Contemporary but my stays at them in the past will seldom be repeated due to the costs vs. the lower cost of the beautiful Port Orleans Riverside/Dixie Landings (I love POR, and in my opinion the grounds at POR are the most beautiful of any resort hotel on Disney property). Well, the Wilderness Lodge standard rooms are a good value when discounts are available, but since my youngest turned 3 we can't stay at WL with a family of 5.
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:41 PM   #120
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Man, so that Mine Train is really progressing with it's concrete pour, eh?
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