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Old 04-23-2013, 08:32 AM   #166
magicbob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
Not to jump back in here...but a couple of things...

Again, I don't think anyone is stating emphatically that an avatar ride/land will be horrid because of the movie being...well...what it was.

But...big BUT...I laugh at the twist of the argument that somehow the long term, broad impact of the content is NOT an issue for Disney. I have loosely called it "cultural phenomena" for lack of better terms.

Of course it is...because no matter what side of the avatar debate a person is on...

To question the longterm popularity of avatar passes the only judge on this board: the common sense test.

This IS common sense. The longterm is everything...an that is where avatars merits are highly debatable.

I'll give two examples:
Why was everyone so ga-ga over Harry potter land?
Because it has already shown broad appeal and impressive legs.

Why did Disney just buy Lucas...mostly Star Wars for 4 billion?
Perhaps because it has been the highest selling license brand for 10 of the last 11 years?
I'm sure...but why is that?
Jar jar binks? Crappy movies for the last decade?
NO!
Because it had widespread popular appeal for 30 years prior...

You know what that's called: a cultural phenomenon
You what else is one?
Mickey Mouse.

So back to avatar...
Made a lot of cash...sequels inbound...

But still there are no LEGS! Find a non-sci fi fan that has mentioned this movie in the last five years...

I dare ya...5 bucks on the line.


Whether you like Avatar or not, the question of whether it's a good business decision for Disney boils down to one thing... will it attract more visitors, thus generating more revenue.

This is where "cultural significance" or "cultural phenomenon" status comes into play.

I'll throw out some quotes or even a few single terms and I bet you can tell me where they come from:

May the Force Be With You.
Beam Me Up, Scotty. (I know... he never actually said the phrase quite like that)
I'm the King of the World!
Frankly, my dear... (I know that one is actually misquoted, too)
Follow the Yellow Brick Road
Play it again, Sam (another misquote, I know)
Quidditch
One life ends&another begins.
Hi-Ho, Hi-Ho...
Phone home.

Oh, wait... was there one in there you didn't recognize?

Cultural phenomenons become ingrained in our every day lives and speech. If people are not familiar with Avatar (that's that 3D movie about blue aliens, right?), it's not going to attract as many visitors as something that had a proven track record.

I'm sure there were a few outliers who didn't "get" Universal adding Harry Potter. But the vast majority of people greatly anticipated the addition because it HAD cultural significance. With Avatar, you have a much smaller fanbase and loads of people who don't even have a clue what it is. That's not going to generate the kind of buzz needed to attract millions more visitors a year.

Avatar is not an integral part of modern pop culture. It was a flash in the pan (a big flash to be sure), but making a lot of money does not make it a cultural icon. Maybe the sequels will succeed in cementing Avatars place in the pop culture... but as of now it's a big gamble to assume that millions will flock there to see Avatarland. They could be left with Ishtarland!
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Old 04-23-2013, 09:17 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by magicbob View Post


Whether you like Avatar or not, the question of whether it's a good business decision for Disney boils down to one thing... will it attract more visitors, thus generating more revenue.

This is where "cultural significance" or "cultural phenomenon" status comes into play.

I'll throw out some quotes or even a few single terms and I bet you can tell me where they come from:

May the Force Be With You.
Beam Me Up, Scotty. (I know... he never actually said the phrase quite like that)
I'm the King of the World!
Frankly, my dear... (I know that one is actually misquoted, too)
Follow the Yellow Brick Road
Play it again, Sam (another misquote, I know)
Quidditch
One life ends&another begins.
Hi-Ho, Hi-Ho...
Phone home.

Oh, wait... was there one in there you didn't recognize?

Cultural phenomenons become ingrained in our every day lives and speech. If people are not familiar with Avatar (that's that 3D movie about blue aliens, right?), it's not going to attract as many visitors as something that had a proven track record.

I'm sure there were a few outliers who didn't "get" Universal adding Harry Potter. But the vast majority of people greatly anticipated the addition because it HAD cultural significance. With Avatar, you have a much smaller fanbase and loads of people who don't even have a clue what it is. That's not going to generate the kind of buzz needed to attract millions more visitors a year.

Avatar is not an integral part of modern pop culture. It was a flash in the pan (a big flash to be sure), but making a lot of money does not make it a cultural icon. Maybe the sequels will succeed in cementing Avatars place in the pop culture... but as of now it's a big gamble to assume that millions will flock there to see Avatarland. They could be left with Ishtarland!
very well spoken although everything you ve stated is YOUR opinion we (or at least i have given facts as to why avatar has been and is popular)

http://screenrant.com/avatar-blu-ray...rd-ross-55782/
http://www.deadline.com/2010/05/19-7...ray-dvds-sold/
http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/avatar/
plus the 40 000 000 face book fans

two current films used advertising comparing themselves to avatar (the croods and life of pi)

9 academy award nominations with 3 wins

what kills me is people who dont like the movie gloss over real facts because of their frame of reference

the good news is besides the fact that it was a good movie if you didnt like the movie you can still enjoy the attraction if done properly
cars land, tron, TOT can all be great rides/lands based on the quality of theming...eye candy matters

the one point against avatar that lockedout has brought up is merchandising which is a good point..ill just say it s not really a kids movie and doesnt lend itself to toys in store, but its not like we wil go to th eavatar land and say man the rides were great the theming was incredible but i hated the tee shirts and shot glasses they sold

not every franchise is star wars or harry potter it doesnt mean it cant be a great land and ill bet anyone here if this is a full blown land with multiple attractions with floating mountains and bioluminescent flora and fauna you will see at least a 10% increase in attendance at DAK its first year
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Old 04-23-2013, 09:37 AM   #168
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From a business standpoint, the only reason to build it is so that they will come (to paraphrase another memorable movie quote that did not come from Avatar).

To achieve that goal, there needs to be buzz and anticipation. People need to be so excited about this addition that they plan vacations JUST to go see it. Even if done well, it will not attract new visitors if no one really cares that much about the source material. You have a large percentage of the population that actively DISlikes it and another large slice that could care less. Very few people are "invested" in Avatar enough to be eagerly awaiting the next installment. As the release date for new installments of the Harry Potter books/films approached, there was tremendous buzz. When Universal announced WWoHP, the buzz and anticipation was almost unreal.

Sure, lots of people bought Avatar on Blu-Ray. I did. It was released at a reasonable price and I buy a lot of movies. But you did not see people in line all night to be the first to buy Avatar on Blu-Ray like it was the new iPhone or a Harry Potter book. It showed up on the shelves and people bought it.

Avatarland might (and probably will) be well executed. But will it have the clout to attract visitors to a theme park specifically to go experience it like WWoHP did? Considering the millions they must invest in the expansion, that is a gamble. Remember, they are not really building it to enhance the experiance and enjoyment of people who are already spending their money on a trip to AK. They are building it to hopefully attract new visitors and make MORE money.
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Old 04-23-2013, 09:45 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by magicbob View Post
From a business standpoint, the only reason to build it is so that they will come (to paraphrase another memorable movie quote that did not come from Avatar).

To achieve that goal, there needs to be buzz and anticipation. People need to be so excited about this addition that they plan vacations JUST to go see it. Even if done well, it will not attract new visitors if no one really cares that much about the source material. You have a large percentage of the population that actively DISlikes it and another large slice that could care less. Very few people are "invested" in Avatar enough to be eagerly awaiting the next installment. As the release date for new installments of the Harry Potter books/films approached, there was tremendous buzz. When Universal announced WWoHP, the buzz and anticipation was almost unreal.

Sure, lots of people bought Avatar on Blu-Ray. I did. It was released at a reasonable price and I buy a lot of movies. But you did not see people in line all night to be the first to buy Avatar on Blu-Ray like it was the new iPhone or a Harry Potter book. It showed up on the shelves and people bought it.

Avatarland might (and probably will) be well executed. But will it have the clout to attract visitors to a theme park specifically to go experience it like WWoHP did? Considering the millions they must invest in the expansion, that is a gamble. Remember, they are not really building it to enhance the experiance and enjoyment of people who are already spending their money on a trip to AK. They are building it to hopefully attract new visitors and make MORE money.
good opinion bob although i think you are completely underselling avatar especially with two more movies coming out

although i have one question if avatar is done in terms of popularity why did these two films compare themselves to avatar? what advantage would these movies have gained from comparing themselves to something so unpopular? seems like they would want to stay away from avatar if it was so unpopular
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Old 04-23-2013, 09:53 AM   #170
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good opinion bob although i think you are completely underselling avatar especially with two more movies coming out
Perhaps. we'll see. But that's kind of my point. No one knows yet whether the sequels will cement Avatar's place as a cultural icon or relegate it to the ash heap of history. That's why I maintain that Disney is taking a big gamble. Universal KNEW they had a 500 lb powerhouse gorilla (no, not the old King Kong ride) with Harry Potter BEFORE they signed contracts and broke ground on the expansion. People were worked up into a frenzy waiting for the place to open and be first in line. We'll see if Avatar produces similar results.
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:01 AM   #171
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Perhaps. we'll see. But that's kind of my point. No one knows yet whether the sequels will cement Avatar's place as a cultural icon or relegate it to the ash heap of history. That's why I maintain that Disney is taking a big gamble. Universal KNEW they had a 500 lb powerhouse gorilla (no, not the old King Kong ride) with Harry Potter BEFORE they signed contracts and broke ground on the expansion. People were worked up into a frenzy waiting for the place to open and be first in line. We'll see if Avatar produces similar results.
HP at universal may be a one time deal....where you have an incredibly popular franchise at the height of its popularity open a theme park land...avatar wont be HP but it will be good (IMO of course)
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:35 AM   #172
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I agree that Avatar Land is a bit of a dice roll before the sequels arrive. I also would prefer Australia or Beastly Kingdom additions to DAK.

This said, I think if they involve Cameron throughout the project, they may come up with some very cool attractions. Cameron loves toys, and he loves using toys to create phenomenal films. Say what you will about the depth of the story or characters within Avatar, the world and the presentation of the world was second to none.

I will certainly visit Avatar Land if and when it arrives. I'll make my final judgements only after I've had the chance to visit.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:45 AM   #173
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I agree that Avatar Land is a bit of a dice roll before the sequels arrive. I also would prefer Australia or Beastly Kingdom additions to DAK.

This said, I think if they involve Cameron throughout the project, they may come up with some very cool attractions. Cameron loves toys, and he loves using toys to create phenomenal films. Say what you will about the depth of the story or characters within Avatar, the world and the presentation of the world was second to none.

I will certainly visit Avatar Land if and when it arrives. I'll make my final judgements only after I've had the chance to visit.
great way of looking at it spacedog

i ve always thought if there was no such thing as an avatar movie and disney announced that they would be in collaboration with james cameron to create a mythical land with floating mountains and bioluminescent flora and fauna it would be a huge success...
i think the eye candy of the movie is a big seller for this theme park that obviously needs something
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:45 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicbob View Post
You have a large percentage of the population that actively DISlikes it and another large slice that could care less. Very few people are "invested" in Avatar enough to be eagerly awaiting the next installment.


Are you confusing the posters on these boards with the people of the world? I would wager that until construction is well under way, most people won't even know Avatar land is going to be built. Is there some world wide poll about the popularity of avatar that we don't know about? Please share it.
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Old 04-24-2013, 08:49 AM   #175
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Here is your evidence:

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJarz7BYnHA

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLzKwTcGO_0
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Old 04-25-2013, 05:58 AM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicbob View Post


Whether you like Avatar or not, the question of whether it's a good business decision for Disney boils down to one thing... will it attract more visitors, thus generating more revenue.

This is where "cultural significance" or "cultural phenomenon" status comes into play.

I'll throw out some quotes or even a few single terms and I bet you can tell me where they come from:

May the Force Be With You.
Beam Me Up, Scotty. (I know... he never actually said the phrase quite like that)
I'm the King of the World!
Frankly, my dear... (I know that one is actually misquoted, too)
Follow the Yellow Brick Road
Play it again, Sam (another misquote, I know)
Quidditch
One life ends&another begins.
Hi-Ho, Hi-Ho...
Phone home.

Oh, wait... was there one in there you didn't recognize?

Cultural phenomenons become ingrained in our every day lives and speech. If people are not familiar with Avatar (that's that 3D movie about blue aliens, right?), it's not going to attract as many visitors as something that had a proven track record.

I'm sure there were a few outliers who didn't "get" Universal adding Harry Potter. But the vast majority of people greatly anticipated the addition because it HAD cultural significance. With Avatar, you have a much smaller fanbase and loads of people who don't even have a clue what it is. That's not going to generate the kind of buzz needed to attract millions more visitors a year.

Avatar is not an integral part of modern pop culture. It was a flash in the pan (a big flash to be sure), but making a lot of money does not make it a cultural icon. Maybe the sequels will succeed in cementing Avatars place in the pop culture... but as of now it's a big gamble to assume that millions will flock there to see Avatarland. They could be left with Ishtarland!
~This is irrelevant, give me a break. Harry Potter is the exception, and not the rule as it pertains to theme park attractions and experiences. By this logic, you seem to imply that no theme park can ever thrive without Harry Potter! It makes no sense, look around -- we've been enjoying theme parks long before Harry Potter land! Disney had neglected the parks for far too long, & people were already desperate for something new -- Harry Potter was wildly popular at the time with all the promotion surrounding the final installment. Now, there are no more films, it's done. As expected, Harry Potter's popularity has significantly waned -- no one is lined up to buy Harry Potter books and toys! But, none of that matters when it comes to theme parks, which is why Universal is adding HP phase 2 which will be a another wild success, and I am very excited about it. Harry Potter World has successfully carried Universal to the next level. In contrast, Disney's Animal Kingdom will successfully carry Avatarland & I can't wait!
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:09 PM   #177
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Disney is wasting its time and money with Avatar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magicbob View Post
Avatar is not an integral part of modern pop culture. It was a flash in the pan (a big flash to be sure), but making a lot of money does not make it a cultural icon. ...it's a big gamble to assume that millions will flock there to see Avatarland. They could be left with Ishtarland!
I argree. Avatarland does not excite me and my guess it that it will not draw in significantly more people. If Disney is going to use "cutting edge" attraction technology on Avatarland, well they could use that on any theme and it would be the cutting edge technology, not "Avatar", that draws people in.

A friend of mine said after seeing "Avatar" in its theatrical release that "this will be my kids' generation's 'Star Wars'". When he said that I held my laughs to myself, knowing he was just emoting in the afterglow of his enjoyment of Avatar. But the time since has proven that Avatar is no Star Wars. Avatar is no cultural icon.

Disney is wasting its time and money with Avatar. Disney, please do something that Walt Disney would do, not something that James Cameron would do. Walt Disney World is not James Cameron World.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:51 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by WDW1979 View Post
I argree. Avatarland does not excite me and my guess it that it will not draw in significantly more people. If Disney is going to use "cutting edge" attraction technology on Avatarland, well they could use that on any theme and it would be the cutting edge technology, not "Avatar", that draws people in.

A friend of mine said after seeing "Avatar" in its theatrical release that "this will be my kids' generation's 'Star Wars'". When he said that I held my laughs to myself, knowing he was just emoting in the afterglow of his enjoyment of Avatar. But the time since has proven that Avatar is no Star Wars. Avatar is no cultural icon.

Disney is wasting its time and money with Avatar. Disney, please do something that Walt Disney would do, not something that James Cameron would do. Walt Disney World is not James Cameron World.
how about we give it a chance to how the sequels go before we claim its over

http://screenrant.com/avatar-blu-ray...rd-ross-55782/
http://www.deadline.com/2010/05/19-7...ray-dvds-sold/
http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/avatar/
plus the 40 000 000 face book fans


it doesnt have to be star wars or harry potter to be successful

you going when it opens i know i am
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:00 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by WDW1979 View Post
A friend of mine said after seeing "Avatar" in its theatrical release that "this will be my kids' generation's 'Star Wars'". When he said that I held my laughs to myself, knowing he was just emoting in the afterglow of his enjoyment of Avatar. But the time since has proven that Avatar is no Star Wars. Avatar is no cultural icon.

Disney is wasting its time and money with Avatar. Disney, please do something that Walt Disney would do, not something that James Cameron would do. Walt Disney World is not James Cameron World.
As much as Disney is rolling the dice before the sequels arrive, I think you're also making an early judgement before the sequels arrive.

Of course Disney has also bought every generation's Star Wars by buying Lucasfilm.
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:46 PM   #180
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Hi there! I'm not wanting to get into the big debate over whether Avatarland is a good idea or not. I am just wondering why we haven't heard any updates from Disney on the status of the whole thing. It seems like it was announced quite a while ago and nothing much about it since. Any ideas on why?
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