I'm watching this one like a tennis match (and too tired to form a decent argument...not my finest thread
good back and forth.
just one thing about the whole dvc being a good/bad deal for everyone involved. it is.
there is no reinvestment in the resort unless you see what they did at contemporary prior to the construction of bay lake: which was basically an elaborate rehab that in the end only ended up with the same things in different places. they gained a much larger chef mickeys (what they wanted all along)...we lost the concourse steakhouse (which was far better than 90% of the crud you can get in WDW now) and lost when the "wave" rolled in.
so even that "investment" for dvc was totally self serving and detrimental.
but no dvc funds go towards the stress it puts on the system. while they put in a new pool and a bar and restaurants only if theres NO way around it (case in point the recent "addition" to saratoga and sanaa at the overbuilt kidani village)...the common areas are just strained with several thousand more sets of hands and feet each day.
but that's the point...the dvc partially or maybe significantly pays for the upfront costs of construction and upkeep (i don't know if that's ever been released but i would think about 50% of those costs are probably a good ballpark guess)...and guarantees ticket sales, dining plan sales, and most importantly and the ultimate goal: out of pocket money for gift shop crap.
and that's where it all comes back. not "enhancing" the deluxe experience...squeezing it.
but we aren't looking at an isolated case.
the dining plan too...the same goal...upfront money long since departed - out of pocket money straight to giftshop crap.
the "disney decade" of building the "all inclusive experience" to keep people out of orlando?
same deal...guarantees giftshop crap.
that's where the money is made. i hate to always have to come back and harp on this...but the giftshop is the "rosetta stone" to all decisions in the modern (last 20 years) WDW...it can't be overstated. if you look at any question as to what's good/bad...and why they do/don't do things...you can find the hidden (or in some cases obvious) truths by starting at how the move in question affects you as a shopper. all roads lead back to Roma.
and i hope they throw whatever they are gonna throw up at the poly fast...
not just because i can stay there for a significant discount (some of the number estimates here are actually way too conservative in regards to savings...the cost of the maintenance dues are always overstated and if the point system is used wisely/effectively...the savings off rack are large and have gotten better over time when compared to the price increases)...
but after they are gonna be fresh outta deluxes at WDW and are gonna have an issue.
they are not going to stop building DVC until they overflow capacity and the free standing ones have not done "great"...contrary to what disney would tell you. saratoga alone is a 10,000 word case study.
so what happens then? bay lake tower south? wilderness lodge villas annex? the Nantucket Villas at Disney's Yacht Club Resort (former site of convention center parking lot)?
then we'll all KNOW that we've been collectively screwed. because the money gleamed off this is much bigger than we as the public are being told/can track.
And as far as why i think disney hotels are overpriced..at least deluxes?
It's not a question of the microeconomic supply and demand curve...any chimp can follow that...its a little more in depth.
There is a lodging "industry" that has an established set of standards...just like any other trade that has evolved over time. disney does not adhere to them specifically in service. they do somethings well...but some others are laughable. Four Seasons, Ritz Carlton, Westin, Marriot, Hyatt, Loews to name a few.
you can't hire "deluxe" or "luxury" service staff at minimum wage out of a centralized hiring office. you can't have open transfers to anyone regardless of history into front line service positions in "luxury" hotels after a year due to mass union contracts. you can't have a "concierge" who's only "abilities" are to book restaurants, recreation, or programs out of a public centralized system that is first come first serve without discrimination (sad but true), you can't have company policy not to accommodate any requests that extend beyond your property line, actually...you can't call disney "concierge" by that name -it is in no way
Not at $500 a night. no matter how cool the views are or how detailed an imagineer made the lobby casework 25 years ago.
it just simply shouldn't be done.
and that's where the problem lies. just because they sell the rooms and get away with it...doesn't mean they aren't making fools of themselves and committing a foul.
and it's not even "complaining"...its recognition that some things are black and white even if the worlds ruled by the grey. they sell the rooms, they increase the prices every year, they have followed a pattern of reducing services and amenities as opposed to adding them for quite sometime now...but they still sell. there is no need for change from a business standpoint nor and realistic consequences evident for continuing that course.
But doesn't mean that the end justifies the means. i can tell you that there services are not up to snuff based on practical experience, observations, and other "expert" opinions when it comes to this. it has enough validity to be the truth. but that doesn't mean i'm gonna "win you over to my side" or even are attempting to. just saying it how it comes.
we do this all the time...especially in politics...many arguments framed as "two sided" are not at all. there is a common sense right and an obvious wrong. but the "debate" continues to a stalemate or in some case the ridiculous "side" wins the day and sometimes easily.
just how it be...but truth is truth.