DVC RESALES
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:51 AM   #16
Minniesgal
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From a financial perspective you are quite right it makes sense to rent, although you don't take into account the residual value of your DVC after the 10 years which could be as much as the interest you would make on your investment. I don't see you saving a huge amount of money over 10 years with DVC but at the same time I don't see you losing a ton either as long as you continue to go to WDW.

However, as it is a vacation and thus a luxury and not a necessity to me this is the kind of purchase where a little bit of what the heart wants should come into it. We bought DVC simply because we really wanted to, I wanted to own at my (soon to me two) home resorts, and I wanted to know that we would come back frequently. For us that was important.

While we all need to be sensible with money sometimes within reason and affordability we should buy what we want instead of what is cheapest, in the same way for example you might buy a sports car when a saloon would do....

I would say if your heart isn't in it don't buy but if you really want to own it and you can afford it then buy it and forget about what else you could have done with the money after all you can't line your grave with the stuff! The way we decided is that we have this year and next year some extra money coming in. We decided that if we save 60% of it which we are we can justify treating ourselves with the rest.
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Old 04-15-2013, 12:26 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by theguda View Post
To me, the best option seems to invest the money and rent points.
Just realize that:

1) As an owner, if you decide to sell before year 14 you will still come out ahead due to the residual value of the contract.

2) As a renter, every trip beyond year 14 will represent a loss.

Quote:
ALTHOUGH...if I bought and recouped my inital cost in 14 years....every year afterward I'd realize a massive savings.
And that's pretty much the factor which prompted EVERY owner to buy.

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Originally Posted by bisney View Post
From a pure numbers standpoint, I would say if you think with reasonable certainty that you will go to Disney for more than 5 years I think it's worth it. Remember that DVC resales have a residual value which limits your financial exposure to much less than the $10,500 buy-in.
Agree.

In our case we had every reason to believe that we would continue using the points well beyond any break-even point, and that's where owning truly pays off. We have been owners for 10 years and have certainly exceeded that break even threshold. However, we could also sell our points today and recoup about 70-80% of what was paid up-front. We paid roughly $25K for our 290 points and they would easily fetch $20K today before commission.

In retrospect, my biggest regret was the two trips on rented points before buying. We would have now "saved" even more if those dollars had gone toward our purchase instead of in someone else's pocket.

Other factors worth some consideration include:

1) Control. OP said: "...we're flexible in our vacation times so I don't expect much of a problem finding the resort we want by renting points." That may be true to some extent, but nothing is more flexible than owning the points and booking at will. Even if you're just taking a flyer on dates without knowing that time off will be available, dates can be secured months in advance and cancelled / adjusted later.

With a rental, you need to be 99% certain of your plans before the process begins. Last minute changes or adjustments can be difficult-to-impossible.

Owners also have full control over dining plan reservation, DME, adding requests to the reservation, using the wait list and so on.

2) Owner perks. The Annual Pass discount is obviously the most beneficial, saving $150-200 per person, per year.

It's certainly worth noting the perks can and do change. There's no guarantee the AP discount will continue beyond 2013.

At the same time, the AP discount has been around since 2005, and it's value actually increased in the last 12 months. A family of 4 could have saved upward of $5000 over the past 8 years using the AP discount. Kinda hard to say that the discount is not worthy of consideration with numbers like that.
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Old 04-15-2013, 12:45 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by AddieAidey View Post
I can see you are a logical thinker but I also detect a hint that you are searching for an excuse to buy-in. Unfortunately the financial sense does not materialize for some time. It's a pre-paid vacation plain and simple. We are buying-in to force us to take vacations because we most likely would not go otherwise. Our kids are very little, so we will have years of travel ahead of us and if we do not buy-in we would most likely go every 3 years or so and would end up in a Moderate hotel or off-property. This ensures us that we will have a nice room and great memories every year

I know its hard to put a value on emotion, but it's something to consider.
This is US EXACTLY! We bought in for the same reason. Otherwise, we would find a reason NOT to take a vacation. We did not take on for 10 years before we started traveling to disney. We went two years in a row and then decided to buy in. Our kids are not so little anymore, but they still want to go! Our daughters love Disney so much they are looking into the DCP now.
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Old 04-15-2013, 03:01 PM   #19
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Owning DVC is certainly not for everyone and you've spent a good deal of time and effort analyzing if it was right for you and your family and decided it wasn't. That's fine..for us, we treat our adult kids and families and can need as many as 4 rooms..3 of which are 1 bedrooms..at any one time. I am grateful we can afford to give this gift to our family and sometimes extended family and friends..does not make financial sense in any way, but we love to do it and that is worth much to us. If I ever have extra points I will happily rent them out at the premium VGC now is able to command and if/when it doesn't work for us we'll sell and hopefully recoup a nice chunk. I could not be a renter..I am too OCD about controlling my own trip and being able to book/change/plot/plan with my own points whenever I want to. I like pretty much knowing that at 11 months I can get whatever I want at my home resort. I'm sure your family will have many wonderful trips without DVC...good thing we are all different so that there are people who want to rent out and people who want to rent in
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Old 04-15-2013, 03:37 PM   #20
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I like your logic, I am a numbers cruncher as well and can appreciate it for sure! Although I'd like to know where you are getting a 5% return on your investments, we haven't had a solid 5% in a while now! I'd love some tips!

I crunched numbers a little differently than you when it came to deciding if this was a financial sound decision for us. We only have one child and plan on staying in studios at the Animal Kingdom (AKL owners) as they are so few points. Value studios are only 69 points per week when we travel. However, we aren't able to rent points for a value studio at AKL because they are super high demand and gone at the 11 month mark almost immediately. So that was one reason we were leaning towards buying. (We got a 100pt AKL contract).

When I did my math to see if this was a good financial decision for us, I did it a couple ways. I crunched the numbers for what it would cost to stay full price (what Disney values the room at), what I would pay for renting, and what we would pay if we stayed at a moderate, because we do not love the theming of the values. Each way I crunched it, we came out ahead.

DVC is not for everyone, renting instead of buying is a great option!
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:25 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by theguda View Post
I'm gonna pass on owning DVC and just rent points. For me, it just makes more sense although I'd LOVE for someone to prove my theory wrong because I would love to be a DVC owner...I just don't think it's financially worth it. Is there something I'm missing...a huge error in my #'s that I don't see? Again....I'M LOOKING AT THIS FROM A $ STANDPOINT. I don't have to be a DVC member to go to WDW anytime I want. To me, the best option seems to invest the money and rent points.
I would quibble with a few assumptions, some of which others have already mentioned. But here is why you can't make a huge mistake by not buying: you can always change your mind and buy if it makes sense for you later. If you buy without thinking it through and then change your mind, you've probably cost yourself some money. There are countless ways to enjoy WDW without being a DVC member. Enjoy them and the flexibility of not being locked in with a large upfront investment and mandatory annual fees for the next 40 years. If you change your mind later, DVC is always there waiting for you.
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:34 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by nunzia View Post
I could not be a renter..I am too OCD about controlling my own trip and being able to book/change/plot/plan with my own points whenever I want to.
I could have written this! I don't like not having control of my own reservation. There's nothing wrong with renting by any means, it's just not for everyone, just the same as buying DVC isn't. You just need to do what works best for you. I also know that I bought it for the duration, so we will definitely get our money's worth.
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Old 04-15-2013, 06:41 PM   #23
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If you are planning to go to Disney every year for the next 10 years, I can honestly say that you are making a mistake into not buying into the resale market of DVC.
Why? Renting points for the next 10 years and not having total control is worth more then you can imagine. Maybe not in cash but in terms of sanity. After all money is only a form trading, how much is this trade worth to you ?
Is it worth giving up control? Your sanity? Will you be happy depending on others?
Numbers on a speadsheet are just numbers on a speadsheet. What will make you happy is all that matters. You sound like a smart person but sometimes if you over analysis things you get paralyzed by it.
If you can afford it, my question to you is What do "you" want to do?
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Old 04-15-2013, 07:15 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by a742246 View Post
If you are planning to go to Disney every year for the next 10 years, I can honestly say that you are making a mistake into not buying into the resale market of DVC.
Why? Renting points for the next 10 years and not having total control is worth more then you can imagine. Maybe not in cash but in terms of sanity. After all money is only a form trading, how much is this trade worth to you ?
Is it worth giving up control? Your sanity? Will you be happy depending on others?
Numbers on a speadsheet are just numbers on a speadsheet. What will make you happy is all that matters. You sound like a smart person but sometimes if you over analysis things you get paralyzed by it.
If you can afford it, my question to you is What do "you" want to do?
As owners we don't have control on what Disney does and we have to accept their decisions or sell.

As a renter, when you find a owner that is professional you can skip Disney vacations without having to rent out a reservation like owners have to. We have had the same families rent from us for years, the arrangement works well for them and us.

Bill
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:18 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disneynutz

As owners we don't have control on what Disney does and we have to accept their decisions or sell.

As a renter, when you find a owner that is professional you can skip Disney vacations without having to rent out a reservation like owners have to. We have had the same families rent from us for years, the arrangement works well for them and us.

Bill
Even professional renters like David's have a no cancellation policy.
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:58 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disneynutz View Post
As owners we don't have control on what Disney does and we have to accept their decisions or sell.

As a renter, when you find a owner that is professional you can skip Disney vacations without having to rent out a reservation like owners have to. We have had the same families rent from us for years, the arrangement works well for them and us.

Bill
As owners we have control over our reservations, we can make, modify, and cancel our reservations as we please. We don't have to answer to any third party.

As an owner (who is professional) who rents out, what would you do if one of your renters cancels out at the last minute (say 2 days before) or makes many changes thru out the reservation?

As the poster says, they will be going to Disney each year for at least the next 10 years. If they can afford to buy a resale DVC contract, Do you believe in this situation, that buying would be the better option for them then renting?
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:12 PM   #27
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We like to vacation someplace familiar.... repeat travels to the same location always has been our norm. However, this USED to be Mexico. With all the turmoil and trouble, now creeping across the country into Cancun also, we cannot feel safe. DVC gives us enough familiarity and variety to return long after recouping initial investment.
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:48 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by a742246 View Post
As owners we have control over our reservations, we can make, modify, and cancel our reservations as we please. We don't have to answer to any third party.

As an owner (who is professional) who rents out, what would you do if one of your renters cancels out at the last minute (say 2 days before) or makes many changes thru out the reservation?

As the poster says, they will be going to Disney each year for at least the next 10 years. If they can afford to buy a resale DVC contract, Do you believe in this situation, that buying would be the better option for them then renting?
As owners we do have control of the reservation but that's it. My point was as owners there are many aspects of ownership that we don't control and renters never have to deal with those.

My agreement with the renter spells out what happens with changes and cancellations and I have only had one guest who I refunded due to issues. They are on my do not rent to list.

If ownership financially makes sense then own but ownership does take some work and the willingness to deal with the changes, rules, and policies made by Disney.

Bill
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:22 PM   #29
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OP, get a better deal on your buy in and the numbers will make more sense.
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:58 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deb & Bill View Post
I don't think there is anything at all wrong with just renting instead of purchasing DVC.
Renting is not for everyone, it's certainly not for me.
I would not sleep for month thinking about the possibility of getting to Orlando and not having a reservation. I know that thousands of people rent and are happy, but I couldn't avoid to think to that very small possibility that my reservation can be cancelled.

Being in control of my own reservations is the huge plus for me in ownership.
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