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Old 04-11-2013, 04:14 AM   #226
Bonniec
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It's so sad I can't stop thinking about this little boy. Which pool was it. The goofy pool I assume?
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Old 04-11-2013, 05:30 AM   #227
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It's so sad I can't stop thinking about this little boy. Which pool was it. The goofy pool I assume?
The Donald pool (the family pool on the new ships). It's over 5' deep.

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Old 04-11-2013, 05:33 AM   #228
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I am sure I have seen lifeguards on the ship, is it only near the slide and Aquaduck?
There are 'attendants' that wear polo shirts with the Aquaduck logo embroidered at the end of the Mickey slide, and 3 at various places of the Aquaduck. Nothing on their clothing denotes them as lifeguards. They might be, but I cannot say for sure.

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Old 04-11-2013, 05:42 AM   #229
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I am glad a family member spoke up. I agree with them. Shame on those that judge others!

I will add that if you're child ever goes missing and there is water around PLEASE check those areas first. Like others said, drowning is silent and every second counts. I've seen this too many times in my field of work and it it's heartbreaking. Prayers to chase and his family.
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:53 AM   #230
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I know I have said this somewhere else, but I can totally see how this could happen. The Donald pools goes from being ankle deep to over your head in an instant. If you aren't familiar with it, I could see a little one just walking around thinking all was fine and then slipping over the edge without even knowing.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:40 AM   #231
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When my husband's cousin was critically ill there were a few people who left cruel comments on his caringbridge site. It's a unfair fact of life that people are not always kind on the internet. You also can't make them be nice by scolding them. That said I have found the comments on these boards to be largely thoughtful and respectful.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:06 AM   #232
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When my husband's cousin was critically ill there were a few people who left cruel comments on his caringbridge site. It's a unfair fact of life that people are not always kind on the internet. You also can't make them be nice by scolding them. That said I have found the comments on these boards to be largely thoughtful and respectful.
This is KEY point for any internet "media".

You can't control the public. If you can only live with posts you like they you need to only use private sites you control and only let your friends post. Otherwise you just have to learn to roll with it.

On these threads I have been amazed that posters keep getting "trashed" for being less "positive" about the long term outcome for Chase. I know what we all want, but I work in a part of healthcare where I see a lot of the "reality" and sadly it reminds me that miracles are just that and not the normal outcome. I fear for this young man and his entire family. I am not sure why that's considered "blame" or "bad" but... I expect that since we are only allowed to say "he's going to be fine" on here this thread will eventually be closed too...


As for how a child could slip under without someone noticing. I was a trained lifeguard. I looked with HORROR on the pool on the Dream on sea day. That pool was SO crowded that there was NO way I would have been able to see the bottom of that pool well, no way I would have been able to effectively scan and monitor etc...I would have refused to work that pool because I could not have done my job and IMHO that's why Disney doesn't have lifeguards. Now overcrowding could have had NOTHING to do with this case and i have no idea if it did or didn't, but from the time I saw that pool so overcrowded I have been afraid of a story like this.... And honestly, I expect there have been "issues" before that were caught before we hit the sad state Chase got to... So "blaming" people for not noticing... I can easily see how that happened and don't "blame" anyone.

Now if I had a child would I have stopped them completely from going to that pool? No. But I would mointor and once it hit the "what are they thinking" stage (which is pretty easy to tell, it's when you can't see water...but bodies) then we would go do something else. So early and late for example are great. Midday on sea day... not so great IMHO. I also will say I never had that same reaction to the pools on the classic ships.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:55 AM   #233
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Another reason why wearing bright coloured swimming attire on children is a good idea. With drowning being such a silent and unnoticed monster most of the time. Bright colours where they can be better spotted underwater. I learned this from a lifeguard. My boys wear bright orange swim trunks and swim shirts and my daughter too. Not blaming anyone here, this was such an unfortunate accident that could have happened to any family. It takes one turn of the head for a little one to bolt. He probably had it in his head to go swimming and bolted to do so. My heart breaks for this family.
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:00 AM   #234
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This is KEY point for any internet "media".

You can't control the public. If you can only live with posts you like they you need to only use private sites you control and only let your friends post. Otherwise you just have to learn to roll with it.

On these threads I have been amazed that posters keep getting "trashed" for being less "positive" about the long term outcome for Chase. I know what we all want, but I work in a part of healthcare where I see a lot of the "reality" and sadly it reminds me that miracles are just that and not the normal outcome. I fear for this young man and his entire family. I am not sure why that's considered "blame" or "bad" but... I expect that since we are only allowed to say "he's going to be fine" on here this thread will eventually be closed too...


As for how a child could slip under without someone noticing. I was a trained lifeguard. I looked with HORROR on the pool on the Dream on sea day. That pool was SO crowded that there was NO way I would have been able to see the bottom of that pool well, no way I would have been able to effectively scan and monitor etc...I would have refused to work that pool because I could not have done my job and IMHO that's why Disney doesn't have lifeguards. Now overcrowding could have had NOTHING to do with this case and i have no idea if it did or didn't, but from the time I saw that pool so overcrowded I have been afraid of a story like this.... And honestly, I expect there have been "issues" before that were caught before we hit the sad state Chase got to... So "blaming" people for not noticing... I can easily see how that happened and don't "blame" anyone.

Now if I had a child would I have stopped them completely from going to that pool? No. But I would mointor and once it hit the "what are they thinking" stage (which is pretty easy to tell, it's when you can't see water...but bodies) then we would go do something else. So early and late for example are great. Midday on sea day... not so great IMHO. I also will say I never had that same reaction to the pools on the classic ships.
I'm a mother who was told that my 12 year old would be in a vegetative state when he was born. If you see his ct scan now you would still totally agree with that prognosis. The problem with giving an opinion online, even if it is an educated one, is that unfortunately most healthcare providers only see the patient's reality right when the issues happen or while the child is hospitalized. You do not see recovery that sometimes takes years and years to see. My son, the one next to me in our family picture below, is no where near what his prognosis was. He is still astounding doctors with his progress. So to say that the grim predictions are 'reality' is unfair and would be extra upsetting for family of the newly diagnosed to read. They need to hear cases of success.

My son does have residual lifelong affects from his brain damage and yes that can be seen as a negative but I would never consider his reality or his life as grim as some posters have suggested. I really hope Chase and his family don't have to read, hear or say that word again. There is no reason not to hang on to hope. I have said this before and it is super early in his recovery to give an accurate prognosis. Every brain injury is as different as each person. So while things look bad now it may not be in a month or a year or in five years.
Thanks Orange County commuter your post was the kindest one I have seen when addressing the issue of what may come. I hope I replied in a way that was equally respectful. I just want parents who happen to find themselves with a brain injured child to see that there is hope. I see it everyday in my son and his friends at school who have overcome so much!
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:23 AM   #235
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I'm a mother who was told that my 12 year old would be in a vegetative state when he was born. If you see his ct scan now you would still totally agree with that prognosis. The problem with giving an opinion online, even if it is an educated one, is that unfortunately most healthcare providers only see the patient's reality right when the issues happen or while the child is hospitalized. You do not see recovery that sometimes takes years and years to see. My son, the one next to me in our family picture below, is no where near what his prognosis was. He is still astounding doctors with his progress. So to say that the grim predictions are 'reality' is unfair and would be extra upsetting for family of the newly diagnosed to read. They need to hear cases of success.

My son does have residual lifelong affects from his brain damage and yes that can be seen as a negative but I would never consider his reality or his life as grim as some posters have suggested. I really hope Chase and his family don't have to read, hear or say that word again. There is no reason not to hang on to hope. I have said this before and it is super early in his recovery to give an accurate prognosis. Every brain injury is as different as each person. So while things look bad now it may not be in a month or a year or in five years.
Thanks Orange County commuter your post was the kindest one I have seen when addressing the issue of what may come. I hope I replied in a way that was equally respectful. I just want parents who happen to find themselves with a brain injured child to see that there is hope. I see it everyday in my son and his friends at school who have overcome so much!
Bless you for posting this!
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:30 AM   #236
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The following was posted yesterday on another Disney message board; it was written by a relative of the family and is in response to the negative remarks that were on the thread. They do also give thanks to those who have been supportive:

Shame on you....shame on all of you who have passed judgment on people you don't know, and a situation you were nowhere near. I am a relative of this family and until now, I thought people like you were not worth the time and effort to give a response. This was a terrible, tragic ACCIDENT, that is all. Sorry to disappoint you and give you nothing to gossip about to others. Chase's parents are two of the most God-loving, diligent parents I know, who are deeply involved in every aspect of their children's' lives. Do you understand that if they were doing the things you accuse them of, such as drinking and not being watchful, that the authorities would have acted on this? If all of you are such avid cruisers as you claim, you would certainly know that when a ship leaves port, there are thousands of people on the upper decks, swimming, drinking, tanning, and taking in the whole experience. Chase was a sweet and active little four-year old boy who slipped away from his parents and got lost in the crowd. They didn't just "suddenly become aware" that he was missing when he had been pulled from the pool. They didn't allow him to go into a pool without them. They didn't leave the two older siblings to watch him. The truth is that they had been searching for him that ENTIRE time he was missing!!! Can you imagine the panic and fear any parent would feel during that time? Another item to point out, Chase was believed to have been underwater for 10-15 minutes and not a single person, staff or guest, noticed. NOT ONE!!! Does this not clearly point out the large number of people and commotion in that area at the time of the accident?? Chase fought for his life and survived. He now has a long battle ahead of him with a grim outlook. People like you are not helping the cause. I believe in the power of voicing opinions and the internet. You are entitled to your "opinion" but just as human beings, I beg you to be responsible about the things you say. I pray to God that they never see the horrible things posted on this thread. For those of you who supported them this last week, I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/so-sad.862525/page-4
Thank you for sharing this letter. I for one also agree that negative comments should not be posted. We should all be supporting this family any way we can.
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:37 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by 4DisneyNUTS View Post
I'm a mother who was told that my 12 year old would be in a vegetative state when he was born. If you see his ct scan now you would still totally agree with that prognosis. The problem with giving an opinion online, even if it is an educated one, is that unfortunately most healthcare providers only see the patient's reality right when the issues happen or while the child is hospitalized. You do not see recovery that sometimes takes years and years to see. My son, the one next to me in our family picture below, is no where near what his prognosis was. He is still astounding doctors with his progress. So to say that the grim predictions are 'reality' is unfair and would be extra upsetting for family of the newly diagnosed to read. They need to hear cases of success.

My son does have residual lifelong affects from his brain damage and yes that can be seen as a negative but I would never consider his reality or his life as grim as some posters have suggested. I really hope Chase and his family don't have to read, hear or say that word again. There is no reason not to hang on to hope. I have said this before and it is super early in his recovery to give an accurate prognosis. Every brain injury is as different as each person. So while things look bad now it may not be in a month or a year or in five years.
Thanks Orange County commuter your post was the kindest one I have seen when addressing the issue of what may come. I hope I replied in a way that was equally respectful. I just want parents who happen to find themselves with a brain injured child to see that there is hope. I see it everyday in my son and his friends at school who have overcome so much!

Sadly I work in the part of healthcare that does see the "years after" I work in long term care and rehabilitation both of which deal with the long term impacts of illness and injury long after the initial 'trauma" I am hopeful for Chase but I think a lot of posters on here seemed to think that he is just going to "wake up" and fully recover. I wish that were so, but as you know it's not quite that easy. I would assume that years later you still are dealing with therapy etc.. to continue and maintain the progress. It's a long and often painfully slow process to recover even small things....His family will learn to rejoice in each small step and to treasure them.

The toll something like this takes on the entire family is so hard to tally. It's things like the increased needs of this child will cut into the time for the other kids, it's the financial cost of therapy, care etc. (Lots of our clients have long ago exceeded the lifetime max on their insurance and are dependent on federal and state funding which can be a pain just to deal with!) I pray for their strength to deal with what is ahead of them.
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:55 AM   #238
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Sadly I work in the part of healthcare that does see the "years after" I work in long term care and rehabilitation both of which deal with the long term impacts of illness and injury long after the initial 'trauma" I am hopeful for Chase but I think a lot of posters on here seemed to think that he is just going to "wake up" and fully recover. I wish that were so, but as you know it's not quite that easy. I would assume that years later you still are dealing with therapy etc.. to continue and maintain the progress. It's a long and often painfully slow process to recover even small things....His family will learn to rejoice in each small step and to treasure them.

The toll something like this takes on the entire family is so hard to tally. It's things like the increased needs of this child will cut into the time for the other kids, it's the financial cost of therapy, care etc. (Lots of our clients have long ago exceeded the lifetime max on their insurance and are dependent on federal and state funding which can be a pain just to deal with!) I pray for their strength to deal with what is ahead of them.
Fortunately I come from a state where there is TON of support. Not perfect or enough in anyone's opinion but a lot more than most states. I just hope for Chase and his family they have a lot of programs in their state that can help.

Also from being on the inside of a brain injury family things are not terrible even when we have our bad days. Even from the outside it may seem that way, we would never change it....of course if we could have prevented Chris' brain damage we would of but you know what I mean. My motto is where there is life their is hope.

And to everyone who knows a family who has a child with a serious medical condition do something little for them. Bring them dinner, have your kids make their child a card. Offer to take the siblings to a something fun. It make a world of difference. Now while they are struggling and years later when they have found their groove.

Getting a birthday party invitation that includes my Chris' name even when there are some parties I know he can't handle but just knowing he is welcomed warms my heart The little things are what will help this family in the long run! It is like real life pixiedust
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:56 AM   #239
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Chase & his family are in my prayers. It only takes an instant for little ones to bolt away from their parents especially when everything is new & exciting. I have been worried about how crowded the pools may be on our cruise. My 5 year old is a so-so swimmer despite lots of swim lessons. Recently his sister pushed him in a pool & I was happy that he was able to swim to the side instead of panic. In a really crowded pool who knows. Can you bring a life jacket from home to have your child wear in the pool? Our cruise is in October so maybe it will be to cold to swim anyway.
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Old 04-11-2013, 10:50 AM   #240
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My heart broke reading the letter from the family. It confirmed all of our worst fears that this was a horrible accident and really could have happened to anyone. We were on this cruise, but thankfully were down at our DISmeet when it happened. I know that this tragedy stayed in everyone's minds throughout the cruise and everyone was hoping for the best and trying to see if more information could be found when we hit ports and had internet service.

We first learned about it as we were walking out the door to go to our dinner at animator's and it really shook both DH and myself. That day was the first time on a cruise where we let our kids 10 and 8.5 (both very strong swimmers) swim without us being able to see the pool while we sat at a table under the awning. It really rattled me wondering if that could have easily been one of them if circumstances were different.

The pools were very crowded and so was the deck. It was a beautiful day, fully packed spring break cruise (we heard 3900 passengers on board) with everyone excited to begin their vacation. I can easily see how a 4 year old who slipped away from family could get in this situation - it is just tragic. Luckily my kids were turned off by the crowds in the pool and did not spend much time in them. They preferred the Aquaduck, hot tubs, Aquazone, and kids club. DH did notice that there seemed to be crew hovering around the pools the rest of the cruise.

As a prior poster said, I don't think a lifeguard would have helped in this situation - it was just too crowded. I do not think this is just a problem with the Fantasy - I have seen the same situation on our prior cruises on the Magic and Wonder. Maybe an enforcement of a limit on the number of people in the pool at one time to avoid the "kid soup" effect of the pool?

This really was a tragic and horrible accident that will deeply impact the family and the first responders.

My thoughts are with them all.

And to the prior poster who asked about a life vest, I think you can but am not positive of the answer. If your 5 year old is a so-so swimmer I would not let him in the water without you in there with him in the Donald pool. Try to avoid embarkation days and mid-day on sea days. There are plenty of times when the pool is not busy - early in the morning, evening, port days.

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