Disney Information Station Logo

Go Back   The DIS Discussion Forums - DISboards.com > Disney Trip Planning Forums > Disney Rumors and News
Find Hotel Specials & DIScounts
 
facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS UpdatesDIS email updates
Register Chat FAQ Tickers Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read





Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-09-2013, 11:46 AM   #121
lockedoutlogic
DIS Veteran
 
lockedoutlogic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Joisey
Posts: 3,039

Quote:
Originally Posted by twebber55 View Post
first i just want to say these are fun but really pointless arguments...nobody knows for sure what will happen but ill counter a couple of your points
ok and ok
Quote:
Originally Posted by twebber55 View Post
Star wars (maybe the best franchise of all time has the 4th most popular ride in DHS...after the refurb the first day it had a 30 minute wait so IP isnt necessarily the most important thing here
who said anything about star tours? Star Tours is TERRIBLE. It is and always has been a pathetic use of that material. the 1980's "caravan on a sitck" motion simulators were so uninteresting that they have been removed from practically every other place on earth about 20 years ago...star tours might be the last ones.
star wars is a case of taking a "good" property (pre-phantom movie) and not being good enough from an imagineering side to get it done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by twebber55 View Post
Second, there have now been two movies that have come out that compare themselves to avatar while advertising if avatar didnt matter this wouold not be the case
ok..which two? for comparison purposes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by twebber55 View Post
thirdly there are tons of web sites out there for avatar literally..people went into a depression because they couldnt visit pandora
there are tons of websites for EVERYTHING!!! If you punch in "howard the duck" you get 11.7 million hits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by twebber55 View Post
fourth regardless what you deem a good "fit" the powers that be seem to think so... i mean the entire message of the movie is about conservation and living with harmony with nature...this just in it wasn't about space aliens and humans fighting
i give avatar some leeway here. the theme can definitely fit in AK. but as stated 1000 times over...depends on how they try to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by twebber55 View Post
i (along with others) have given FACTS about its popularity 2.8 billion gross 9 academy award nominations 3 wins, comparisons to other movies, high scores on rotten tomatoes etc i too have yet to hear a reason thats valid and can be proven as fact as to why it shouldnt be built other than "i hated the movie its a dumb idea" or "its not worthy of an attraction" both of which typically comes from people who didnt like the movie... thats fine i didnt like the mummy but its a great attraction, the simpsons i cant stand but the ride is fun, twilight zone was cheesy yet its one of disney s great rides
are we just gonna ignore the broader context? nobody has questions box office sales...and nobody cares about academy award wins. red herring.
If disney was going to build "Slumdog Millionaire: Live on Stage" at the studios...would you be quoting the oscar resume?

but you mentioned the simpsons...which i hate. They have been licensed over their history at more than 9 billion worth of sales. That's along time but still more than 200 mil per year.

Disney princesses last year grossed 3 billion worldwide and 1.6 in the US

Star Wars was number 2 with 1.6 billion (after ten years of virtual crap being thrown at everyone)

the others in the top 20? Toy Story, Cars, Hello Kitty, Pooh, Spiderman, Batman, Dora, Barbie, WWE, Peanuts, Sesame Street, Mickey and Friends (disney now owns the entire top five with the purchase of lucasfilm) spongebob, angry birds, blah blah blah


In 2010...the year following the late 2009 release of Avatar...here was the top ten (in millions):
1. Disney Princess -- Disney -- $1,725

2. Star Wars & The Clone Wars -- LucasFilm -- $1,415

3. Pooh -- Disney -- $1,100

4. Toy Story -- Disney/Pixar -- $915

5. Cars -- Disney/Pixar -- $810

6. Hello Kitty -- Sanrio -- $750

7. Mickey & Friends -- Disney -- $725

8. Peanuts -- Peanuts Worldwide/Iconix -- $660

9. Sesame Street -- Sesame Workshop -- $525

10. WWE -- WWE -- $520

ok...not the "avatar" type crowd by and large...most geared more towards the young kid market...with some exceptions...but i dug up what avatars license figure was for 2010...wanna guess?

153 million...that was THE year of its release and biggest impact.

now...i'm not saying we can draw any conclusions from this (it doesn't need to be said )...but what would matter for disney in the longrun - year upon year billion dollar retails sales?...OR one big six month period in the Winter of '09?

obviously they want to build the Avatar thing for probably a varieties of reasons...but its not a "score" franchise and has displayed no legs.

but again...you have to look deeper than box office to play in this game. just like you have to look deeper into AK's gate attendance numbers. apples and apples.

Quote:
Originally Posted by twebber55 View Post
i think it compares favorably to Cars and cars land... if its done right it will be successful like cars land if its not given a proper budget than maybe not all we can do now is wait and see what it is
It's possible. Though the situation is a little different. DCA was in crisis and carsland - while the key component - was part of a pretty massive overhaul. And Disneyland's core clientele has always been the "weekender/AP" type customer and they desperately wanted a decent second park. WDW does NOT have a discerning/demanding clientele that asks for return on their out of pocket purchases...never have and probably never will. Two very different subsets on the Coasts. But as far as avatar goes there are possibilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by twebber55 View Post
i suggest we all keep an open mind and actually see it first before we judge...anyway im done on this its pointless
okay
__________________
Went there.....
Worked there....(Resort Operations)
Wed there....(EPCOT 2004)
Bought there....(SSR 2006)

Last Trip: Too Long Ago
Next Trip: Not Soon Enough
Gift Shop Quality: Horrible
Portion Size: Shrinking and Suffering from Inflation


"May the Space Being bless the Free Market"
lockedoutlogic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 11:57 AM   #122
twebber55
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 672

Quote:
Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
ok and ok

who said anything about star tours? Star Tours is TERRIBLE. It is and always has been a pathetic use of that material. the 1980's "caravan on a sitck" motion simulators were so uninteresting that they have been removed from practically every other place on earth about 20 years ago...star tours might be the last ones.
star wars is a case of taking a "good" property (pre-phantom movie) and not being good enough from an imagineering side to get it done.

ok..which two? for comparison purposes...

there are tons of websites for EVERYTHING!!! If you punch in "howard the duck" you get 11.7 million hits.

i give avatar some leeway here. the theme can definitely fit in AK. but as stated 1000 times over...depends on how they try to do it.

are we just gonna ignore the broader context? nobody has questions box office sales...and nobody cares about academy award wins. red herring.
If disney was going to build "Slumdog Millionaire: Live on Stage" at the studios...would you be quoting the oscar resume?

but you mentioned the simpsons...which i hate. They have been licensed over their history at more than 9 billion worth of sales. That's along time but still more than 200 mil per year.

Disney princesses last year grossed 3 billion worldwide and 1.6 in the US

Star Wars was number 2 with 1.6 billion (after ten years of virtual crap being thrown at everyone)

the others in the top 20? Toy Story, Cars, Hello Kitty, Pooh, Spiderman, Batman, Dora, Barbie, WWE, Peanuts, Sesame Street, Mickey and Friends (disney now owns the entire top five with the purchase of lucasfilm) spongebob, angry birds, blah blah blah

In 2010...the year following the late 2009 release of Avatar...here was the top ten (in millions):
1. Disney Princess -- Disney -- $1,725

2. Star Wars & The Clone Wars -- LucasFilm -- $1,415

3. Pooh -- Disney -- $1,100

4. Toy Story -- Disney/Pixar -- $915

5. Cars -- Disney/Pixar -- $810

6. Hello Kitty -- Sanrio -- $750

7. Mickey & Friends -- Disney -- $725

8. Peanuts -- Peanuts Worldwide/Iconix -- $660

9. Sesame Street -- Sesame Workshop -- $525

10. WWE -- WWE -- $520

ok...not the "avatar" type crowd by and large...most geared more towards the young kid market...with some exceptions...but i dug up what avatars license figure was for 2010...wanna guess?

153 million...that was THE year of its release and biggest impact.

now...i'm not saying we can draw any conclusions from this (it doesn't need to be said )...but what would matter for disney in the longrun - year upon year billion dollar retails sales?...OR one big six month period in the Winter of '09?

obviously they want to build the Avatar thing for probably a varieties of reasons...but its not a "score" franchise and has displayed no legs.

but again...you have to look deeper than box office to play in this game. just like you have to look deeper into AK's gate attendance numbers. apples and apples.

It's possible. Though the situation is a little different. DCA was in crisis and carsland - while the key component - was part of a pretty massive overhaul. And Disneyland's core clientele has always been the "weekender/AP" type customer and they desperately wanted a decent second park. WDW does NOT have a discerning/demanding clientele that asks for return on their out of pocket purchases...never have and probably never will. Two very different subsets on the Coasts. But as far as avatar goes there are possibilities.

okay
Well said
__________________
June 2008 OKW
July 2008 SSR
June 2009 HHI
June 2010 BWV
June 2011 VB
June 2011 BC
June 2012 BC
June 2012 THV
June 2014 BC
twebber55 is offline   Reply With Quote
|
The DIS
Register to remove

Join Date: 1997
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,000,000
Old 04-09-2013, 05:17 PM   #123
StarWarsJez
Mouseketeer
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 186

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsklamc View Post
I'm too lazy to do the research right now but the fantasyland expansion and nextgen technology I would guess outspends Universal in recent years.
That is absolutely NOT the case. Just think what party rides/investments Disney has made over the last 10 years - and then do the same for Universal.

Fantasyland is the first major park upgrade at Disney for years. It's super and when it's finished it will be a great addition to MK. However by then we will have had TWO Harry Potter lands built at Universal, where the level of nextgen innovation and investment completely eclipses Disney.
StarWarsJez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 05:36 PM   #124
mrsklamc
I apologize in advance, but what is a click clack?
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Husker living in Hoosierland.
Posts: 9,444

Harry Potter reported cost: $265 million.

NextGen reported cost: 1 billion dollars. Fantasyland reported cost: $425 million.
mrsklamc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 09:01 PM   #125
twebber55
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 672

Quote:
Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
ok and ok

who said anything about star tours? Star Tours is TERRIBLE. It is and always has been a pathetic use of that material. the 1980's "caravan on a sitck" motion simulators were so uninteresting that they have been removed from practically every other place on earth about 20 years ago...star tours might be the last ones.
star wars is a case of taking a "good" property (pre-phantom movie) and not being good enough from an imagineering side to get it done.



ok..which two? for comparison purposes...



there are tons of websites for EVERYTHING!!! If you punch in "howard the duck" you get 11.7 million hits.



i give avatar some leeway here. the theme can definitely fit in AK. but as stated 1000 times over...depends on how they try to do it.



are we just gonna ignore the broader context? nobody has questions box office sales...and nobody cares about academy award wins. red herring.
If disney was going to build "Slumdog Millionaire: Live on Stage" at the studios...would you be quoting the oscar resume?

but you mentioned the simpsons...which i hate. They have been licensed over their history at more than 9 billion worth of sales. That's along time but still more than 200 mil per year.

Disney princesses last year grossed 3 billion worldwide and 1.6 in the US

Star Wars was number 2 with 1.6 billion (after ten years of virtual crap being thrown at everyone)

the others in the top 20? Toy Story, Cars, Hello Kitty, Pooh, Spiderman, Batman, Dora, Barbie, WWE, Peanuts, Sesame Street, Mickey and Friends (disney now owns the entire top five with the purchase of lucasfilm) spongebob, angry birds, blah blah blah


In 2010...the year following the late 2009 release of Avatar...here was the top ten (in millions):
1. Disney Princess -- Disney -- $1,725

2. Star Wars & The Clone Wars -- LucasFilm -- $1,415

3. Pooh -- Disney -- $1,100

4. Toy Story -- Disney/Pixar -- $915

5. Cars -- Disney/Pixar -- $810

6. Hello Kitty -- Sanrio -- $750

7. Mickey & Friends -- Disney -- $725

8. Peanuts -- Peanuts Worldwide/Iconix -- $660

9. Sesame Street -- Sesame Workshop -- $525

10. WWE -- WWE -- $520

ok...not the "avatar" type crowd by and large...most geared more towards the young kid market...with some exceptions...but i dug up what avatars license figure was for 2010...wanna guess?

153 million...that was THE year of its release and biggest impact.

now...i'm not saying we can draw any conclusions from this (it doesn't need to be said )...but what would matter for disney in the longrun - year upon year billion dollar retails sales?...OR one big six month period in the Winter of '09?

obviously they want to build the Avatar thing for probably a varieties of reasons...but its not a "score" franchise and has displayed no legs.

but again...you have to look deeper than box office to play in this game. just like you have to look deeper into AK's gate attendance numbers. apples and apples.


It's possible. Though the situation is a little different. DCA was in crisis and carsland - while the key component - was part of a pretty massive overhaul. And Disneyland's core clientele has always been the "weekender/AP" type customer and they desperately wanted a decent second park. WDW does NOT have a discerning/demanding clientele that asks for return on their out of pocket purchases...never have and probably never will. Two very different subsets on the Coasts. But as far as avatar goes there are possibilities.


okay
the two movies were life of pi and the croods

good points (not that i buy them like you dont buy mine) but good points

i do think you re underselling box office...if it were 1.2 billion than yeah but 2.8 billion is almost double the avengers so it matters

its also hard to compare movie franchises with several movies than one that is just starting


i still think it can be way be better from an aesthetic stand point than cars land is it WWOHP nope but it doesnt have to be

anyways im out on this until we see or hear something new

__________________
June 2008 OKW
July 2008 SSR
June 2009 HHI
June 2010 BWV
June 2011 VB
June 2011 BC
June 2012 BC
June 2012 THV
June 2014 BC
twebber55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 01:43 PM   #126
StarWarsJez
Mouseketeer
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 186

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsklamc View Post
Harry Potter reported cost: $265 million.

NextGen reported cost: 1 billion dollars. Fantasyland reported cost: $425 million.
Yes for Harry Potter phase 1 - but there's a new one being at Universal linking the two parks together. So at least x 2 that cost. Plus universals got Transformers this summer and a new Simpsons area on top of a number of other recent additions Rip Ride Rocket etc.

If Disney is spending $425 on Fantasyland, yet Universal can do Harry Potter 2 quicker and cheaper then it sounds like Disney need to be employing Universal contractors!

As for $1Bn on Nextgen - imagine a conversation between a Disney Imagineer and a kid 'well son we were going to build lots of cool new rides but instead weve spent the money on a better fastpass system and those cool new wristbands' - Woooooooooo!
StarWarsJez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 02:51 PM   #127
mrsklamc
I apologize in advance, but what is a click clack?
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Husker living in Hoosierland.
Posts: 9,444

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarWarsJez View Post

As for $1Bn on Nextgen - imagine a conversation between a Disney Imagineer and a kid 'well son we were going to build lots of cool new rides but instead weve spent the money on a better fastpass system and those cool new wristbands' - Woooooooooo!
My point was not what they spent it on, but a counterpoint to your statement that Disney has been very shy about investing in the parks. I just don't believe that's a true statement.
mrsklamc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 11:17 AM   #128
StarWarsJez
Mouseketeer
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 186

Yes and Disney have been spending MILLIONS on new hotels etc. However i think its fair to say the public want them to be investing in attractions - not behind the scenes enhancements in the way they can market to their visitors.

Visitors want attractions - and over recent years Disney has been very shy in investing in them!
StarWarsJez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 04:22 PM   #129
Postal68
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 715

I'm hoping for an Avatarland update that says they've scrapped this completely ridiculous and horrible idea.
Postal68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 05:14 PM   #130
Dznefreek
R.I.P Bruce
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Altamonte Springs, FL
Posts: 7,263

I talked with my friend whose dad is lead on the project.
Planning is going on and they are currently assigning other leads for the various projects involved with the expansion.
Dznefreek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 05:45 PM   #131
twebber55
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 672

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dznefreek View Post
I talked with my friend whose dad is lead on the project.
Planning is going on and they are currently assigning other leads for the various projects involved with the expansion.
any clue on size and scope of this project?
__________________
June 2008 OKW
July 2008 SSR
June 2009 HHI
June 2010 BWV
June 2011 VB
June 2011 BC
June 2012 BC
June 2012 THV
June 2014 BC
twebber55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 09:53 PM   #132
makeitmagic39
Earning My Ears
 
makeitmagic39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 10

My personal take on this whole land of Avatar:

I didn't like the movie so I am not enticed to go into the land. Simple as that.

What could they possibly create? A beautiful place to walk around and learn about nature? Cool. I would much rather go look at an animal, or better yet, do something exciting like the river raft ride. I can go outside and look at nature whenever I want. Plus, I have no desire to visit tall blue aliens. That ride disgusting looking horse things and have awkward tentacle sex.

I guess it just isn't my cup of tea.
__________________





It will happen
makeitmagic39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 10:42 PM   #133
mvk
Mouseketeer
 
mvk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 285

Do you like Splash Mountain? If so, I presume it's because you are a big fan of Song of the South.
mvk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 10:42 PM   #134
MissPrincessKendall
Earning My Ears
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: New Jersey and Florida
Posts: 37

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarWarsJez View Post

Yes for Harry Potter phase 1 - but there's a new one being at Universal linking the two parks together. So at least x 2 that cost. Plus universals got Transformers this summer and a new Simpsons area on top of a number of other recent additions Rip Ride Rocket etc.

If Disney is spending $425 on Fantasyland, yet Universal can do Harry Potter 2 quicker and cheaper then it sounds like Disney need to be employing Universal contractors!

As for $1Bn on Nextgen - imagine a conversation between a Disney Imagineer and a kid 'well son we were going to build lots of cool new rides but instead weve spent the money on a better fastpass system and those cool new wristbands' - Woooooooooo!
The point that you are missing is how much money Disney is actually spending. Some of you are complaining Disney needs more attractions and aren't spending money like universal WELL FOR STARTERS YOU ARE WRONG.

Disney is NOT a theme park. It is a resort. It is not a thrill ride six flags type park and it has never set out to be. The reason for a few thrill rides is to draw that crowd in, as well as musical shows for that crowd, meet and greats, excellent cuisine for the food loved, slow moving rides for the less adventurous, educational opportunities and so on with other things. Walt Disney world is important as a whole from the look and feel to the actual guest experience.

So just because the only thing you think they did was build fantasyland the last two years you are completely wrong. They are refurbing rides all the time with update features and new paint, they are making the resorts look and prestine and new as possible, they completely reprint and overhaul both water parks every single year! Expanding areas, remodeling rides, updating technology, adding new systems likes nextgen, taking on new projects like avatar, and a ton of other things. All I that costs money and they need to divide that money between each and every aspect of what goes into "playing the part for each guest" not just big rides and lands.

That is what differs Disney from universal and six flags those are theme parks not places you can escape to for a vacation of multiple proportions. The things at each Disney resort alone are enough to keep you busy for a week without even going to a park.
MissPrincessKendall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 11:04 PM   #135
lockedoutlogic
DIS Veteran
 
lockedoutlogic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Joisey
Posts: 3,039

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvk View Post
Do you like Splash Mountain? If so, I presume it's because you are a big fan of Song of the South.
bad argument...we're not given access to song of the south...unless you happen to be in japan

who knows?

actually...as most of us already know...song of the south is a fantastic movie and was a predecessor to Mary Poppins - which along with Sleeping Beauty and possibly one of the pixars (nemo, toy story, toy story 2...wall-3...take your pick) represents the absolute zenith of disney films...

so is song of the south better than avatar? not really a debate
__________________
Went there.....
Worked there....(Resort Operations)
Wed there....(EPCOT 2004)
Bought there....(SSR 2006)

Last Trip: Too Long Ago
Next Trip: Not Soon Enough
Gift Shop Quality: Horrible
Portion Size: Shrinking and Suffering from Inflation


"May the Space Being bless the Free Market"
lockedoutlogic is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS Updates
GET OUR DIS UPDATES DELIVERED BY EMAIL



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:44 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Copyright © 1997-2014, Werner Technologies, LLC. All Rights Reserved.