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Old 04-07-2013, 10:07 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beer dave View Post
Well in my limited construction experience, the PM who rushes the Super to rush the subs who rush the general laborers turn out a lesser quality project.

Art takes time.
~Yes, art takes time -- but it doesn't take an eternity. Seriously, this mine train thing is taking forever! Disney needs to apologize & rehire all of those talented imagineers they let go to Universal!
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Old 04-07-2013, 11:08 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by DRDISNEYMD
~Yes, art takes time -- but it doesn't take an eternity. Seriously, this mine train thing is taking forever! Disney needs to apologize & rehire all of those talented imagineers they let go to Universal!
Wow...I think we might be zen on this one...

Disney displays no urgency and its obvious why: the longer it takes...the more you can pump it.

The timelines today are contrary to they way did it in the past...
In the past, not only was it about proper investment and quality...it was also about the urgency to deliver.

Most Disney construction contracts used to involve a bonus system that rewarded
Early completion...can't imagine that is stressed now.

While what I have seen of the new fantasyland land (partial completion...better
Look next month)...looks good....
Come on...4 years into construction with another year or so?

Kidding, right?
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Old 04-07-2013, 05:43 PM   #18
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Can't wait. :-)
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:08 PM   #19
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Can't wait. :-)
Well just a year to go!
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:35 PM   #20
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Well just a year to go!
At best! LOL!

Does anyone think this new FL has been a quality upgrade, especially in light of what Uni and Sea World have/are giving us? you'd have to have tunnel vision...
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:46 AM   #21
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Agreed again! This isn't Disney taking its time to create something perfect, this is stringing out development so they can spread the costs ver a longer budgetary period while still looking like they're investing in the parks.

Despite my love for Disney I think I'd actually like Universal to blow them out the water when Harry Potter phase 2 arrives (in what HALF the time it's taken Disney to upgrade Fantasyland?). I feel there's a real arrogance at Disney that needs shaking out of them!
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:35 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by StarWarsJez View Post
Agreed again! This isn't Disney taking its time to create something perfect, this is stringing out development so they can spread the costs ver a longer budgetary period while still looking like they're investing in the parks.

Despite my love for Disney I think I'd actually like Universal to blow them out the water when Harry Potter phase 2 arrives (in what HALF the time it's taken Disney to upgrade Fantasyland?). I feel there's a real arrogance at Disney that needs shaking out of them!
totally agree.....everybody on this board obviously loves disney but man do we need to hold them to a high standard and not let this stuff slide by because they were great 10 years ago
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:37 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
Oh...probably not the kinda thing that needs to be announced.

20 years ago when they talked about the "information age"...I'm not sure it was all encompassing.
Give me a break... Lol. We're all adults here.
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:03 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by StarWarsJez View Post
I completely agree with you lockedoutlogic and think that part of the daft Avatarland announcements (where they actually announce nothing really tangible) is to give the IMPRESSION that theyre matching Universal for investments.
I don't know if this is a joke or if you really believe they aren't matching Universal for investments.

Unless you don't think it costs anything to maintain/landscape/upgrade 25 resorts, 4 theme parks, 2 water parks, and other guest areas while expanding MK, adding/expanding resorts, completely overhauling DtD, and planning AvatarLand.
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:12 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by mvk View Post
I don't know if this is a joke or if you really believe they aren't matching Universal for investments.

Unless you don't think it costs anything to maintain/landscape/upgrade 25 resorts, 4 theme parks, 2 water parks, and other guest areas while expanding MK, adding/expanding resorts, completely overhauling DtD, and planning AvatarLand.
Not to mention two mega cruise ships in the past two years which cost close to a billion each.
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:17 PM   #26
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I think it's ridiculous it's taking over a year for a ride to be completed since New Fantasyland's Grand Opening. We are going to WDW in November and probably won't be returning for a while so it is disappointing that we won't get to see the Mine Train.

I think it's silly for the new fantasyland expansion to take so long- noticeably the time the Mine Train is taking to get built AFTER the New Fantasyland opening. I mean- there's really no reason it couldn't have opened at the same time as the rest of New Fantasyland. Obviously Disney wants to stretch things out though.

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Old 04-10-2013, 06:51 PM   #27
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I hate that there are parts that aren't open for those who have been or are going to go soon because many families can't afford to go at all or very often. I do understand the frustration. I was there last summer and new fantasy land wasn't open at all. Just the double dumbos. I was really disappointed. But they did open up parts at a time at least so that guests can experience Belle's Village and the little Mermaid area. They have opened a ride as part of New Fantasyland.
I personally feel that one of the things I love about Disney is the attention to detail.
For example... You may or may not know this already, but the Imagineers on the Be Our Guest project hand shredded all if the tapestries, paintings, and draperies in the West Wing. They looked just like those found in the other rooms when they arrived. According to Chef Michael, this not only took time and care, but also led to many disagreements over HOW it should be done.
I feel the Disney motto is to do it right. What is right is not always easy, or fast. I'm sure that they would love to be able to have the work completed so that they will be able to move on to other projects.
I know it sucks though to plan a trip and miss something that will be new. So, I am sorry for your feelings.
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:57 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvk View Post
I don't know if this is a joke or if you really believe they aren't matching Universal for investments.

Unless you don't think it costs anything to maintain/landscape/upgrade 25 resorts, 4 theme parks, 2 water parks, and other guest areas while expanding MK, adding/expanding resorts, completely overhauling DtD, and planning AvatarLand.
I'm not sure it's fair to compare general maintenance (which landscaping is a part) for the entire resort to the same for Universal. that would be like comparing the cost of maintaining (including power/gas/water) for your 4bdrm house to the guy down the street living in a studio apartment.

What this is is talking about the upgrades/additions within the space they already have. The Guy in the studio Apartment adding a 50in plasma TV w/ 7.1 Surround sound system, while the guy in the 4bdrm adds a 36in LCD he got at Walmart and saying "Look! I got something new too!"

And Disney isn't adding/expanding resorts. DVC doesn't count because it's a pure money printing machine for Disney. There is AoA which was added.... but an argument can be said about them just completing the second half of POP which they already started. More importantly, Disney was primarily addressing the 1 room segment which was WOEFULLY under represented onsite.... A room that can hold more than 4 people. Disney was starting to see a lot of 5+ person families/groups start to head offsite because the cost of 2 value rooms or a DVC Villa at rack rates was too much for people to justify on top of all the other Disney expenses.

That being said, Universal is also building a brand new hotel with family suites and accomdations/perks that appear to match Disney Moderates at a cheaper than Disney Value price.

Also.... Disney has noone but themselves to blame for their need to "overhaul" DTD. Most of DTD's problems, which the planned overhaul is primarily looking to address.... are self inflicted. Part by bad planning to begin with (West Side being seperated from the Marketplace by a gated section for adults), and then made worse by decisions made in response to trying to resolve issues caused by the bad planning. (Opening up Pleasure Island to pedestrian traffic to improve guest flow between West Side and Marketplace.....resulting in underage kids being in the area, or families complaining about the people clubbing/drinking/parting in the 21+ area at night, as well as a removal of the streetside type entertainment as a result of the cover charge to enter the island.... and the removal of the single-ticket cover resulting in each club suddenly having to justify it's individual existance and budget instead of being part of a larger district.... which led to the decision to just close all the clubs at pleasure island.... which has given us 4+ years of empty buildings in the middle of marketplace and westside that is very unattractive and makes it even more difficult to justify the walk between the two areas.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdb in AZ View Post
Not to mention two mega cruise ships in the past two years which cost close to a billion each.
Again.... Comparing Disney Cruise Line investments to Universal's Florida Park investments.... not really comparing apples to apples. "Hey look! I just built a house!" "That's cool.... I just built a small city!" Not really the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meggiebeth View Post
I think it's ridiculous it's taking over a year for a ride to be completed since New Fantasyland's Grand Opening. We are going to WDW in November and probably won't be returning for a while so it is disappointing that we won't get to see the Mine Train.

I think it's silly for the new fantasyland expansion to take so long- noticeably the time the Mine Train is taking to get built AFTER the New Fantasyland opening. I mean- there's really no reason it couldn't have opened at the same time as the rest of New Fantasyland. Obviously Disney wants to stretch things out though.

Meg~ Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards
I'll be fair.... There is one perfectly valid reason for the mine train not opening at the same time as the rest of new fantasyland.... with a little bit of extra leeway given for logistical reasons.

1. the Mine train was a late addition to the plan. Ground was broken on the project and work started on BOG and LM buildings under the original expansion plans. It was a couple months later once Staggs was moved into his position over the parks that the original plans for the location now occupied by the mine train were changed to put the mine train there and to 86 the original plans that called for a couple more stand alone princess meet and greet locations. With the late change of plans I'm willing to give them a bit more leeway because of the potential additional engineering work required from dusting off this idea and working it, getting the components into place, and the fact that if it was part of the orginal plan, the original construction timetable could've been put together to make better use of time and resources as it's obvious the coaster requires a more complicated and involved engineering and construction process than a couple simple meet and greet show buildings.

2. The location which the mountain is being built was used as a construction staging area during much of the early work on the rest of the new fantasyland construction. Again... as a late addition to the construction plans, I'll give them a bit more leeway since when they started construction and decided to use that central ground as the staging area, the plan was for that space to be used by a couple of simple meet and greet show buildings that could've been put up pretty quickly and easily. By the time the coaster was added, they were alreday committed to using the space for the construction of the other buildings, so there was a delay in when they could start the excavation and prep work on the site for the coaster construction.


Soooo..... There are reasons for the delay.... but I can't give them a complete pass. They could provide more resources to the construction if they wanted too. And this whole thing wouldn't have been such an issue if there wasn't such disfunction and a desire to do things on the cheap to begin with with the Expansion. (Meet&Greets? Sweet! We don't have to spend much to build those!.... Wait... people are complaining they want more than just more lines to meet the princesses? dammit.... now we actually have to spend some money on something!
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:59 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meggiebeth View Post
I think it's ridiculous it's taking over a year for a ride to be completed since New Fantasyland's Grand Opening. We are going to WDW in November and probably won't be returning for a while so it is disappointing that we won't get to see the Mine Train.

I think it's silly for the new fantasyland expansion to take so long- noticeably the time the Mine Train is taking to get built AFTER the New Fantasyland opening. I mean- there's really no reason it couldn't have opened at the same time as the rest of New Fantasyland. Obviously Disney wants to stretch things out though.

Meg~ Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards
If it has been part of the original plan for the expansion then it would probably be done by now, but early in the project they changed course and the Mine Ride was a late addition. The mine ride construction started about 1 1/2 years after the rest of the expansion.
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:00 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swebb0310 View Post
I hate that there are parts that aren't open for those who have been or are going to go soon because many families can't afford to go at all or very often. I do understand the frustration. I was there last summer and new fantasy land wasn't open at all. Just the double dumbos. I was really disappointed. But they did open up parts at a time at least so that guests can experience Belle's Village and the little Mermaid area. They have opened a ride as part of New Fantasyland.
I personally feel that one of the things I love about Disney is the attention to detail.
For example... You may or may not know this already, but the Imagineers on the Be Our Guest project hand shredded all if the tapestries, paintings, and draperies in the West Wing. They looked just like those found in the other rooms when they arrived. According to Chef Michael, this not only took time and care, but also led to many disagreements over HOW it should be done.
I feel the Disney motto is to do it right. What is right is not always easy, or fast. I'm sure that they would love to be able to have the work completed so that they will be able to move on to other projects.
I know it sucks though to plan a trip and miss something that will be new. So, I am sorry for your feelings.

I'm not debating your opinion by any means....but i do try to make it a point on the highlighted sentence that no disney park or product has EVER been advertised, promised, or marketed as being "value" or "available to everyone".

this is a world of haves and have nots...and disney travelers are in 99.9% more of the haves.

Disney is not providing a public service...they are making profit for both themselves and countless millions of stockholders each day who check to see if the stock went up each night on their iPad...while they sit and watch tv.
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