DVC RESALES
DVC RESALES

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Old 04-06-2013, 07:30 PM   #46
WilsonFlyer


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If it weren't for DVC financing successful buyers for years and years, DVC would have failed LONG ago.
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:54 PM   #47
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If it weren't for DVC financing successful buyers for years and years, DVC would have failed LONG ago.
That's likely true of every timeshare in existence. Likewise, retail sales are the life blood of the system, any timeshare system. However, I don't think an individual should go into such a purchase thinking they're going to overpay in both price and financing for the good of the system. IMO, from a decision standpoint, they are 2 entirely different things. I look at it much as I do the RCI exchanges where the more people who use the option, the better it is for some of us who also (or only) own other timeshares but I have to first and foremost be honest about the reasonableness of the choices to the benefit of the DVC member.
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:06 PM   #48
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im renting this year and i see a huge savings for my stay

im probably going to buy in next year or so and ive gone back in forth about resale or direct. ill probably go resale once i save up.

only question i have is i hear people say their nervous about resale cause disney could change the rules. what does that mean exactly? what are they worried about? would they not accept my points or give us 2nd priority?
just curious
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:09 PM   #49
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I agree, Dean, and I know what you guys are saying, but it's extremely hard for a lot of people to write a check for $60,000.00. Could we? Sure. Should we have? Maybe. For a lot of reasons, we chose not to.

I celebrate all the people that can afford to write a blank check for DVC but it gets old when the old guard on here consistently says, and I paraphrase, "If you can't afford to pay for it in cash, you don't have any business buying it."

Those folks are perfectly entitled to their opinions but to blame the current economic crisis on folks like me that financed is hypocrisy. I paid right through the crisis and continue to do so, as I always have with all my bills. I dare say that's where the vast majority of us are too. I could be wrong, but some of us choose to have the things we want in ways unfathomable to some people here. As long as we do our part, what business is it of anybody's?

I guess it's the "holier than thou" attitude that gripes me, and many here preaching "Pay cash or go home." certainly exude that attitude. That's what gripes me more than everything else put together.
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:13 PM   #50
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im renting this year and i see a huge savings for my stay

im probably going to buy in next year or so and ive gone back in forth about resale or direct. ill probably go resale once i save up.

only question i have is i hear people say their nervous about resale cause disney could change the rules. what does that mean exactly? what are they worried about? would they not accept my points or give us 2nd priority?
just curious
I can't speak for others but here's my take. One should buy to use DVC at DVC resorts. IMO you're legally and contractually protected to have the same option as anyone else for that purpose. Some will say you could be restricted to your home resort but legally I don't think this is possible unless the resort exits the system then all owners at that resort would be affected. RCI (or replacement) exchanges are likely to remain, all else is a crap shoot or likely to be excluded including the BVTC which includes the direct trades to Club Cordial and Club Inrawest. They could stop combining contracts bought resale as well. IMO, if you want to use DVC at DVC resorts you have NO risk for buying a single contract.
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:20 PM   #51
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I agree, Dean, and I know what you guys are saying, but it's extremely hard for a lot of people to write a check for $60,000.00. Could we? Sure. Should we have? Maybe. For a lot of reasons, we chose not to.

I celebrate all the people that can afford to write a blank check for DVC but it gets old when the old guard on here consistently says, and I paraphrase, "If you can't afford to pay for it in cash, you don't have any business buying it."

Those folks are perfectly entitled to their opinions but to blame the current economic crisis on folks like me that financed is hypocrisy. I paid right through the crisis and continue to do so, as I always have with all my bills. I dare say that's where the vast majority of us are too. I could be wrong, but some of us choose to have the things we want in ways unfathomable to some people here. As long as we do our part, what business is it of anybody's?

I guess it's the "holier than thou" attitude that gripes me, and many here preaching "Pay cash or go home." certainly exude that attitude. That's what gripes me more than everything else put together.
Again, I can't speak for others but my goal is to be a cheerleader, not a naysayer and maybe a touch of reality. It's about helping people limit their risk in case life happens to them. $60K could get you 1000 points at WDW. However, I reserve the right to have an opinion of a general choice and principle, if the opinion that it's unreasonable to finance vacations or a luxury purchase (DVC is both) offends you then you'll simply have to be offended.
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:25 PM   #52
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Thanks for response. Yes I would only buy to use in the dvc resorts.
But if I got restricted to one resort I'd be pissed. Cause I want try them all.
And go to Disneyland and Hawaii one day.
Can't see why they would change though. They make a fortune from people coming down and spending money.
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:31 PM   #53
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Thanks for response. Yes I would only buy to use in the dvc resorts.
But if I got restricted to one resort I'd be pissed. Cause I want try them all.
And go to Disneyland and Hawaii one day.
Can't see why they would change though. They make a fortune from people coming down and spending money.
As I said, I do not think they could legally do this but they could potentially come up with a VIP system that gave one group a wait list priority over another but it would potentially affect all owners though it could affect non qualified more than qualified.
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:56 PM   #54
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If you are at all concerned with value for your money then it should be. I don't know anyone who got (or stayed) rich by throwing money around unnecessarily.

Because you're paying 10% interest, that's why. You don't see that as a problem?

I'm curious, if you didn't own DVC would you book a hotel and pay for them? I'm always surprised when people will gladly give away DVC stays as if they didn't cost anything. But again, I'll go back to my original point, you don't need DVC to take people on vacation. You can rent points or book a room directly and simply pay for them.

So are you saying that you wouldn't help if you didn't own DVC? What is the difference?

Agree to disagree I suppose. I like to enjoy the moment as well, but I can't advocate throwing money away when there are less expensive options (resale or renting points) that will give you almost the exact same experience.
And I do think that what it is all about...we all have to make financial decisions that we believe work for us and not everyone has the same financial goals. There are some who would never do what I do in terms of having a new car every 3 to 4 years. I know it means I have a car payment and have decided that this is okay debt for me. Does it mean Ill be less wealthy than I could be if I didn't? Of course!! Same thing with owning DVC. I could certainly visit Disney less expensively, but I don't because the quality of my vacation matters more to me than the financial drawbacks of owning and using DVC.

As long as someone goes in and has done their homework, recognizing what paying direct prices and interest does to the bottom line, and has considered how to handle things if something should happen, then they made a well informed decision for them. I definitely think given today's prices direct, it would be very hard to make numbers work, but as I said when I bought, whether I paid cash prices or interest, didn't matter to me. I had a vacation budget and as long as my expenses stayed within that budget, I was comfortable with my decision.
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:08 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Kingdome8 View Post
im renting this year and i see a huge savings for my stay

im probably going to buy in next year or so and ive gone back in forth about resale or direct. ill probably go resale once i save up.

only question i have is i hear people say their nervous about resale cause disney could change the rules. what does that mean exactly? what are they worried about? would they not accept my points or give us 2nd priority?
just curious
What you need to consider are the motivations for people saying this. Fear based decision making typically does not yield good decisions. Furthermore, do they truly believe this or is it a self soothing tactic to make themselves feel better about their decision? I suspect that it's a little of both, depending on the person. But like Dean, I agree that if you are buying a DVC resale contract to stay at DVC, you are more than likely safe.



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I agree, Dean, and I know what you guys are saying, but it's extremely hard for a lot of people to write a check for $60,000.00. Could we? Sure. Should we have? Maybe. For a lot of reasons, we chose not to.
This is the kind of statement that I have a problem with. It's a gross exaggeration of what your realistic options are. Who is talking about $60,000? I bought 150 points resale at SSR last week for $57 a point plus closing and fees. 150 points is enough for at least a week in a studio each year. Total outlay: $9,917. But it came with three year's points. So renting them out at $11 each would earn me $4,950. So assuming that I had the $9,917 available for a few months, this contract cost me a net of $4,967. Even if I bought three times that many points, we are nowhere near your suggested number of $60,000, so what is the point you're trying to make?



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Originally Posted by WilsonFlyer View Post

I celebrate all the people that can afford to write a blank check for DVC but it gets old when the old guard on here consistently says, and I paraphrase, "If you can't afford to pay for it in cash, you don't have any business buying it."
I can see how you would be bothered by this. I can only speak for myself, and I personally am not here to judge anyone. The point I'm trying to make is that the ability to write a "blank check" for DVC exists within just about everybody, maybe just not at this very moment. But making long term decisions such as paying double for direct points and then adding 50% of the base cost on top of that in interest significantly erodes one's ability to ever be in that position to write the check. That's not a value judgement, that's simply math. Please don't be offended by math, it's your friend. And this position is a long way away from telling someone that they have "no business" buying DVC. You're paraphrasing, and I get that, but I also think you're misinterpreting.

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Originally Posted by WilsonFlyer View Post

Those folks are perfectly entitled to their opinions but to blame the current economic crisis on folks like me that financed is hypocrisy. I paid right through the crisis and continue to do so, as I always have with all my bills. I dare say that's where the vast majority of us are too. I could be wrong, but some of us choose to have the things we want in ways unfathomable to some people here. As long as we do our part, what business is it of anybody's?
I think you are taking things a bit too literally to think that I (or anybody else) blamed the current economic crisis on people who financed DVC purchases. The point was a greater one, specifically that patterns of overspending and financing have serious long term detrimental effects on individual consumers. That paradigm is mirrored on a larger scale when talking about municipalities and the federal government. When people (not you) default on their obligations, things go very badly. One only need look at predatory lending practices in the housing market as an illustration of this point. But you do make a good point in that people are free to acquire the things they want in whatever way they want. But when they bring their methodology up for debate here on the boards, it becomes open for debate. They can't bring up the topic and cry foul when people disagree with them. Quite frankly, I'd lay off a lot more if someone publicly acknowledged that they were buying (essentially) the same thing I did, but paying triple the cost because they wanted immediate gratification or because they chose to finance. [Assuming a direct purchase that costs double the price of a resale purchase and financing that adds 50% to the cost, which is typical]. At least they're being honest. I can point out how much extra money they spend when they do this, but it's not for me to tell them that they can't.

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I guess it's the "holier than thou" attitude that gripes me, and many here preaching "Pay cash or go home." certainly exude that attitude. That's what gripes me more than everything else put together.
You may very well be referring to me when you say this, and if you think that's where I'm coming from then I apologize. Whether or not someone should buy DVC is a value judgment. Like I said before, I'm not here to judge anybody. Whether or not buying DVC in certain situations is a good idea is a matter of mathematics and philosophy, both of which I think are fair game here on the boards.

But let me ask you something, how would you like me to respond when someone says that they are going to spend $31,248 for (essentially) the same contract that I just paid $9,917 for, just so they can "have it now" or "use their points without limitations"? Should I just and say "congratulations" or point out the fact that they are spending $21,331 in extra costs and interest? What would you suggest I do?
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:15 PM   #56
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And I do think that what it is all about...we all have to make financial decisions that we believe work for us and not everyone has the same financial goals. There are some who would never do what I do in terms of having a new car every 3 to 4 years. I know it means I have a car payment and have decided that this is okay debt for me. Does it mean Ill be less wealthy than I could be if I didn't? Of course!! Same thing with owning DVC. I could certainly visit Disney less expensively, but I don't because the quality of my vacation matters more to me than the financial drawbacks of owning and using DVC.

As long as someone goes in and has done their homework, recognizing what paying direct prices and interest does to the bottom line, and has considered how to handle things if something should happen, then they made a well informed decision for them. I definitely think given today's prices direct, it would be very hard to make numbers work, but as I said when I bought, whether I paid cash prices or interest, didn't matter to me. I had a vacation budget and as long as my expenses stayed within that budget, I was comfortable with my decision.
Thanks for your comments. It's obvious that I am very rigid in my thinking on this and I'm trying to see other perspectives. Your car point is a good one as it illustrates differing priorities, but I don't think that's the issue I'm having. My issue would be if you paid $20,000 for the same car you could get for $10,000 somewhere else. That's where the sticking point is for me. I think it's more of a "direct vs. resale" issue and less of a "DVC or not" issue.

I try to be respectful in my dissent and withhold making value judgments, and I apologize if I'm not always successful. I would hope that people at least isolate my comments to the discussion at hand and not apply them to their personal situations, as every situation is different. I suppose I should be more clear in stating that my position applies to buying direct in today's environment. And obviously each person's situation is different, so my theoretical discussion may not always apply. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to help me see another point of view.
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:21 PM   #57
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Frankly I agree with WilsonFlyer - we bought in at 160 pts and were still not comfortable handing them a check for $18K so we financed. We looked at it the same way we would a car payment - the difference being the car we'll replace in 6 years whereas we expect to die still owning our DVC.
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:23 PM   #58
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... My issue would be if you paid $20,000 for the same car you could get for $10,000 somewhere else. That's where the sticking point is for me. I think it's more of a "direct vs. resale" issue and less of a "DVC or not" issue. ...
You'd have to be comfortable with buying used...this is where the car analogy diverges from DVC resale vs direct
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:24 PM   #59
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I wasn't pointing at anybody. Funny thing is, I never even read the thread. I simply reserved my comments until it got to be 4 pages long. I knew by the time it got to 25-30 posts, it would have all come out. It always does.
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:29 PM   #60
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Frankly I agree with WilsonFlyer - we bought in at 160 pts and were still not comfortable handing them a check for $18K so we financed. We looked at it the same way we would a car payment - the difference being the car we'll replace in 6 years whereas we expect to die still owning our DVC.
Thanks for sharing this point of view, it is helpful. I get that you're not comfortable writing a check for $18,000. Are you comfortable writing them a bunch of little checks that add up to three times that amount?

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You'd have to be comfortable with buying used...this is where the car analogy diverges from DVC resale vs direct
Yeah, I thought that would be interpreted like this, but it's not really the case. The resale is to direct as new car is to used car analogy is not really appropriate, because a resale contract is not like a used car in so much as it can still be used to book all 11 DVC resorts. I appreciate the joke though. My point to Sandi is that I see it as buying the exact same car, same odometer reading and everything, for twice the price. I get that people have a real problem with resale, and if that's the case then you don't see it as the same car. That's an agree to disagree situation.
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