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Old 04-04-2013, 11:14 AM   #31
justmestace



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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerone View Post
that seems a tad bitter. its a news story about a ship and the story is on a cruising site. yes, its primarily a Disney site however I have seen lots of stories and questions about other lines on here. some good, some not so good.
as you pointed out there is a link above that shows it has happened to a Disney ship. no one tried to hide the fact it did. this is not some big conspiracy to hide all Disney flaws and promote the worst of other lines.
it seems to me your the one who makes this about finger pointing. anytime someone says something about problems with non Disney ships you say its finger pointing and make an issue out of it. this is the DIS. people are mostly on here because they love Disney so please do not make them feel bad about it. we have every bit as much right to love DCL as we do to love/not love other lines.
its only a story about a problem with a ship. lets leave it there.

I may say that it's finger pointing, or whatever, but the ISSUE is being made whenever someone feels that it's necessary to start a thread and post about the evils of any other cruise line, especially Carnival, when compared to Disney.
I've said this a million times, Disney does have a great product, but it isn't the ONLY one, and it isn't always the best.

There are a lot more people here, the same ones over and over again, who are more quick to bash Carnival, than lonesome me defending them....in some circumstances, but not all. I won't defend the Costa Captain who ended up getting people killed, but I will say that he did something that many, many other Captains had done before, without incident. It was still wrong, it was an accident waiting to happen, and he made things worse by his actions after the fact....so there's no defending there. But I also think that there have been times (one in particular) where I think a Disney Captain made a bad decision and was lucky that there weren't any more serious injuries than some bumps, bruises and seasick people....heading straight into a hurricane, while other lines chose to wait it out safely.

So in my opinion, what I am is reasonable. I see too many other people who can't even try to see reason, and who won't bend even the slightest and that drives me nuts.


It's not so much a matter of defending another line as it is a matter of not being able to deal with people who are so rigid in their beliefs.

It's perfectly fine, in my opinion, to love all things Disney. And yes, it's perfectly fine, obviously, to talk about DCL on this Board. But it's really pathetic to have to see people post things that are intended to do nothing more than bash another cruise line.....especially without posting all of the facts.
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:29 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justmestace View Post
I may say that it's finger pointing, or whatever, but the ISSUE is being made whenever someone feels that it's necessary to start a thread and post about the evils of any other cruise line, especially Carnival, when compared to Disney.
I've said this a million times, Disney does have a great product, but it isn't the ONLY one, and it isn't always the best.

There are a lot more people here, the same ones over and over again, who are more quick to bash Carnival, than lonesome me defending them....in some circumstances, but not all. I won't defend the Costa Captain who ended up getting people killed, but I will say that he did something that many, many other Captains had done before, without incident. It was still wrong, it was an accident waiting to happen, and he made things worse by his actions after the fact....so there's no defending there. But I also think that there have been times (one in particular) where I think a Disney Captain made a bad decision and was lucky that there weren't any more serious injuries than some bumps, bruises and seasick people....heading straight into a hurricane, while other lines chose to wait it out safely.

So in my opinion, what I am is reasonable. I see too many other people who can't even try to see reason, and who won't bend even the slightest and that drives me nuts.


It's not so much a matter of defending another line as it is a matter of not being able to deal with people who are so rigid in their beliefs.

It's perfectly fine, in my opinion, to love all things Disney. And yes, it's perfectly fine, obviously, to talk about DCL on this Board. But it's really pathetic to have to see people post things that are intended to do nothing more than bash another cruise line.....especially without posting all of the facts.


When you go to a football game and everyone around you is cheering for the home team, do you cheer for the opposing team?

Most people here have spent a boatload of money on one or more Disney cruises and don't really want to hear bad things about Disney. And when they find out they could have cruised on Carnival or another competitor for a fraction of the cost, they are on the lookout for any and all reasons to NOT sail on those other lines....IOW, it make them (us) feel good about the decisions we have made to sail on DCL.

So I will respect your right to defend Carnival but try to understand most here are Disney fans.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:12 PM   #33
justmestace



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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogillio View Post
When you go to a football game and everyone around you is cheering for the home team, do you cheer for the opposing team?
That depends on which team I'm there to watch! But admittedly, I always have been the one to root for the underdog.

Most people here have spent a boatload of money on one or more Disney cruises and don't really want to hear bad things about Disney. And when they find out they could have cruised on Carnival or another competitor for a fraction of the cost, they are on the lookout for any and all reasons to NOT sail on those other lines....IOW, it make them (us) feel good about the decisions we have made to sail on DCL.

Does it make you feel better about cruising on Disney by bashing other lines? If you lost weight, would you feel better about it by making fun of fat people?

So I will respect your right to defend Carnival but try to understand most here are Disney fans.
I'm sure no one will believe this, but with 13 or however many Disney cruises I've gone on, and countless trips to WDW and Disneyland, I too, am a Disney Fan. I'm just not fanatical. There's a difference.
I totally respect everyone on these boards for their love of Disney. What I don't respect is people feeling the need to point out every single problem another line has (ANY other line) just to make Disney look better...and in my opinion, to justify the cost of Disney. Now that I don't have small kids any more, it just isn't worth the money. Once my grandkids get old enough, then it might be worth it (to me) again.....except for the rare new itinerary, and traveling with friends, as in my upcoming Magic cruise.....
So why don't all the Disney fans just talk about DISNEY rather than posting every time another line has a problem? Yeah, I know, someone else already said "Cruise industry, blah blah blah".......but if that's the case, there are tons and tons of articles about ship mishaps to be found out there.....we could fill the whole first page of the DIS with them. So if it's "Cruise News" that keeps having Carnival-bashing threads show up here, why aren't there just as many for the other lines?

BTW...I've only cruised Carnival 3 times...NCL 4 times and Princess once.
The ONLY reason I even responded to this thread is because it's yet another bash at Carnival, and it wasn't even their fault. That's just wrong. And I would do the same with the other lines I've cruised on.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:17 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogillio View Post

When you go to a football game and everyone around you is cheering for the home team, do you cheer for the opposing team?

Most people here have spent a boatload of money on one or more Disney cruises and don't really want to hear bad things about Disney. And when they find out they could have cruised on Carnival or another competitor for a fraction of the cost, they are on the lookout for any and all reasons to NOT sail on those other lines....IOW, it make them (us) feel good about the decisions we have made to sail on DCL.

So I will respect your right to defend Carnival but try to understand most here are Disney fans.
While that may be true (not with me), I think that accentuates what justmestace is saying. I am fair. DCL does NOT do everything right, (Sandy) and they are not beyond reproach. I like to hear the good and the bad. I love my DS, but that doesn't make him infallible. Same goes with DCL. You shouldn't have to ignore DCL's flaws or accentuate Carnivals to feel good about your purchase. Even though I sail on DCL, I would NEVER pay what some pay. It's great, but not that great. My most expensive cruise to date is my next one in May. $1875 for a 6 night cruise (2 adults, 1 teen). Maybe if I was spending $5000, I might feel differently, but as it stands, I am more than willing to call DCL out, regardless of $'s spent.

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Old 04-04-2013, 12:26 PM   #35
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I am reminded of what a wise man once said:
"your subcontractor did not fail you, you failed to manage your subcontractor."

There is a pattern of poor management at Carnival...
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Old 04-04-2013, 02:14 PM   #36
tinkerone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justmestace View Post
I may say that it's finger pointing, or whatever, but the ISSUE is being made whenever someone feels that it's necessary to start a thread and post about the evils of any other cruise line, especially Carnival, when compared to Disney.
I've said this a million times, Disney does have a great product, but it isn't the ONLY one, and it isn't always the best.

There are a lot more people here, the same ones over and over again, who are more quick to bash Carnival, than lonesome me defending them....in some circumstances, but not all. I won't defend the Costa Captain who ended up getting people killed, but I will say that he did something that many, many other Captains had done before, without incident. It was still wrong, it was an accident waiting to happen, and he made things worse by his actions after the fact....so there's no defending there. But I also think that there have been times (one in particular) where I think a Disney Captain made a bad decision and was lucky that there weren't any more serious injuries than some bumps, bruises and seasick people....heading straight into a hurricane, while other lines chose to wait it out safely.

So in my opinion, what I am is reasonable. I see too many other people who can't even try to see reason, and who won't bend even the slightest and that drives me nuts.


It's not so much a matter of defending another line as it is a matter of not being able to deal with people who are so rigid in their beliefs.

It's perfectly fine, in my opinion, to love all things Disney. And yes, it's perfectly fine, obviously, to talk about DCL on this Board. But it's really pathetic to have to see people post things that are intended to do nothing more than bash another cruise line.....especially without posting all of the facts.
sorry, don't see it. and as far as bashing, anytime someone posts something less than stellar about another cruise line i see some mighty good bashing going on in the opposite direction. glass houses...........
we all have the right to post what we want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. we need to agree that other peoples thoughts are as important as ours and not question why they feel the need to start a post about ANY cruise line be it a negative or a positive. if someone likes dcl than i don't see the need to repeat over and over that they are not infallible. we all know that. lets move on, no one blamed carnival for this, the topic was that it was a problem and thats all.
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Old 04-04-2013, 02:30 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by justmestace View Post
The ONLY reason I even responded to this thread is because it's yet another bash at Carnival, and it wasn't even their fault. That's just wrong.


I don't see it that way. Just scanning back over this thread I read:
  • However in this case its NOT Carnivals fault!
  • To each their own but this was not carnival's doing.
  • I do not believe that this most recent event was in any way their fault.
  • Even though it was not Carnival's fault
  • This was only mother nature's fault
  • While this was NOT Carnival Cruise Lines, or Carnival Corps. Fault
  • it may not be a problem of their making

The idea that this was a Carnival 'bashing' thread is not an accurate characterization. Most of the posts in this thread acknowlege that this was not Carnival's fault. Some people might actually think it was Carnival's fault but they are equally welcome to their opinion. If I have an opinion that Carnival is a party boat, that is my opinion and is not bashing Carnival. Some people like a party boat and laugh at those of who opt for a cruise ship that does not even have casinos.
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:28 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogillio View Post
I don't see it that way. Just scanning back over this thread I read:
  • However in this case its NOT Carnivals fault!
  • To each their own but this was not carnival's doing.
  • I do not believe that this most recent event was in any way their fault.
  • Even though it was not Carnival's fault
  • This was only mother nature's fault
  • While this was NOT Carnival Cruise Lines, or Carnival Corps. Fault
  • it may not be a problem of their making

The idea that this was a Carnival 'bashing' thread is not an accurate characterization. Most of the posts in this thread acknowlege that this was not Carnival's fault. Some people might actually think it was Carnival's fault but they are equally welcome to their opinion. If I have an opinion that Carnival is a party boat, that is my opinion and is not bashing Carnival. Some people like a party boat and laugh at those of who opt for a cruise ship that does not even have casinos.

Hey I got quoted!, Thanks Rogillo

There is ALOT of problems with Carnival, but in this case its NOT their fault!

AKK
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:33 PM   #39
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I don't think this is Carnival's fault at all. I feel bad for their PR people though. They just must be totally lost on how to recover from one negative story after another.
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:33 PM   #40
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I don't think this is Carnival's fault at all. I feel bad for their PR people though. They just must be totally lost on how to recover from one negative story after another.
Well except for this story..........maybe the best thing to do is fix their operating, design and policy issues so they don't have the problems!


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Old 04-04-2013, 06:02 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Tonka's Skipper View Post
Most know I am not a Carnival fan!

However in this case its NOT Carnivals fault!. When a vessel is in the shipyard the safety of the vessel is the responsibility of the shipyard, not the owners or line.

AKK
correction ... at least when I sat in "the chair"

when a ship is in DRYDOCK the responsible party is the ship yard and transfers as soon as the ship crosses the line denoting the entrance .. for the common floating dock this was the 'sill' or edge of the dry dock.

a ship in a "dockside" maintenance or repair period, responsibility remains the with the Master

Had many experiences in both conditions . . .

I'm always amazed how poorly cruise ships are set up for their mooring lines. A bundle fore and aft and nothing 'tween. If I'd tied up that way in ADAK or Dutch Harbor my ship would have been on the rocks the first night. Remember, a Disney ship blew away from the terminal in Canaveral not long ago and dropped the gangways .... tugs fortunately were close and responded to push the ship back against the pier.
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:08 PM   #42
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correction ... at least when I sat in "the chair"

when a ship is in DRYDOCK the responsible party is the ship yard and transfers as soon as the ship crosses the line denoting the entrance .. for the common floating dock this was the 'sill' or edge of the dry dock.

a ship in a "dockside" maintenance or repair period, responsibility remains the with the Master

Had many experiences in both conditions . . .

I'm always amazed how poorly cruise ships are set up for their mooring lines. A bundle fore and aft and nothing 'tween. If I'd tied up that way in ADAK or Dutch Harbor my ship would have been on the rocks the first night. Remember, a Disney ship blew away from the terminal in Canaveral not long ago and dropped the gangways .... tugs fortunately were close and responded to push the ship back against the pier.

I beg to differ, once the vessel was tied along side the pier, the shipyard by contract took responsibility for the vessel, generally because the plant was dead and power limited. That of course did not mean if their was a Master onboard........he could sit back and not raise holy hell if in his judgment the vessel was in danger.

I have been in yards when there was only a mate and a chief engineer and of course the Owners port Captain/engineer or supervisor. This of course is likely the difference form Military and Merchant.



I am glad I am not the only one that wondered about the lines on the big cruise ships. Just like you said.........a bunch of bow and stern lines.............maybe 2 springs. NEVER saw a breast line!

AKK

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Old 04-04-2013, 06:54 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt_BJ




I'm always amazed how poorly cruise ships are set up for their mooring lines. A bundle fore and aft and nothing 'tween. If I'd tied up that way in ADAK or Dutch Harbor my ship would have been on the rocks the first night. Remember, a Disney ship blew away from the terminal in Canaveral not long ago and dropped the gangways .... tugs fortunately were close and responded to push the ship back against the pier.

The Wonder was towed to another pier after her incident. She couldn't stay at term 8 because of the crew gangways and bridges that were hanging over the edge of the pier.

As far as lines I've seen the Magic running her thrusters to stay against the pier at CC. This was when they still did bridge tours. The oic was getting or making phone calls every few minutes and updating the Capt.

The thrusters are prob why we don't see more lines like normal ships.

Last edited by truck1; 04-04-2013 at 07:00 PM.
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