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Old 03-29-2013, 11:31 PM   #46
wdwmom0f3
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Originally Posted by manning View Post
The smartest move

SELL THE CAR!!!
I would and I seriously thought about doing just that, but I just can't do that to her. I will sign the title over to her and make sure the paper work is done before I give her the keys. Then it's out of my hands.
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:01 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by wdwmom0f3 View Post
I will sign the title over to her and make sure the paper work is done before I give her the keys. Then it's out of my hands.
You might want to check with your attorney and make sure that giving her the car (as opposed to some $$ changing hands) gives you enough separation from the vehicle from a liability standpoint.

Also, does she actually have the money right now for insurance on her own? If not and you sign the car over to her, that makes it an uninsured vehicle which I believe is illegal in some states. So it could be creating more problems for her (and potentially you) if she can't insure it the minute it's in her name....

Good luck
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:27 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by wdwmom0f3 View Post
This is what we are thinking. As far as I know he has never driven the car, but I can't risk her ever letting him drive it. .
I don't understand why you took away the car if the boyfriend never ever drove it? What is the issue? Just that you do not like this boy.

If your daughter gets insurance on her own - what would stop HER from adding him to HER insurance?
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:35 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Lorelei Lee View Post
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Sorry, but this is exactly what I was talking about.

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Nope, I worked for 35 years in claims, underwriting and subrogation and was licensed in all required states and handled all 50 states. I was also a panelist for Intercompany Arbitration for 15 years. Each state and each carrier in that state is different and some could work that way. I don't agree with it but that is what it is.

Hearing now that the title will be signed over to the daughter and deleting the vehicle from her policy is the best way to protect the OP from any legal liability.

Denise

Last edited by Denise W; 03-30-2013 at 07:50 AM.
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:39 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by PlutoPony View Post

You might want to check with your attorney and make sure that giving her the car (as opposed to some $$ changing hands) gives you enough separation from the vehicle from a liability standpoint.

Good luck
I was wondering this too. I wonder if mom could sell her the car for $50, create a bill of sale, and sign the title over. But older people gift their cars all the time when they can't drive anymore right? Does that mean they are still liable even if they sign over the title and get it registered with the new owner?

OP, check with the attorney. And remember to take the plates! DD will have to get her own.
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:40 AM   #51
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Signing the form that he will not be a driver will legally cover you if he has an accident only if you file he did not have permission (theft) If the title is in your name daughter can try to claim she gave permission yet that will not hold legally as she's not title holder. I didn't read each page so this may have already been stated yet I know someone personally who dealt with situation. You should be prepared to charge him with auto theft if you take that route knowing she lets him drive tell them both this is what will happen make sure he understands its jail time if he has the smallest accident because you are not paying the fines related to signing that form you will prosecute as he is not to be driving vehicle. If you don't feel you could prosecute do not take that route as it will be you punished. Good Luck
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:58 AM   #52
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I have been in a situation similar to this with my eldest who was a good kid, so got caught up in the wrong crowd and made several bad decisions. I am also an insurance agent who does happen to be licensed in AL.
An exclusion is just that, you are signing a document that states you want to exclude that person from coverage, which means if he/she drove the car and there was a claim, there is no coverage under that policy, including damage to your own car. Normally used again for family members in the same household.
When I quote a potential customer, and they have legal claims questions such a these hypothetical questions, claims will NOT attempt to answer anything because there is no claim yet. Every claim is unique with different factors. Therefore, I always tell those potential customers to contact an attorney. The long and short of it is, if someone wants to sue you bad enough, they are going to find an attorney willing to represent them and make a case no matter what the situation is.
I think getting your name off title, and making her do things on her own will be best. If she still lives in your home, you also have to think about your cars and whether she needs to be excluded from those as well on your policy.
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Old 03-30-2013, 09:38 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denise W

Nope, I worked for 35 years in claims, underwriting and subrogation and was licensed in all required states and handled all 50 states. I was also a panelist for Intercompany Arbitration for 15 years. Each state and each carrier in that state is different and some could work that way. I don't agree with it but that is what it is.

Hearing now that the title will be signed over to the daughter and deleting the vehicle from her policy is the best way to protect the OP from any legal liability.

Denise
You are correct that each state is different.

Which is why blanket statements about how to handle the matter arenot ti be trusted.

If she excluded him from the policy under these circumstances . . .

As a plaintiff's attorney I'd be screaming "negligent entrustment", that the owner knew this individual would be driving the car. A story like this . . .where owner does not maintain control of the car but passes control to another individual knowing that the person entrusted with the car is likely to allow the excluded driver to drive the vehicle . . . Is very ripe for litigation.

Even if the vehicle's owner wins, she loses, because she's been dragged into litigation -- not intercompany arbitration-- her carrier may or may not be providing a defense, and by the time things get sorted out, she will have had all sorts of aggravation and expense.

Even if her insurer pays for her defense, even if she wins, she's going to be dragged into the muck.

Ever hear "fraud vitiates the policy"? She knows the guy is going to drive the car but lists him as an excluded driver. She's made a representation to the insurer which is false. I see that as ripe for coverage litigation between the vehicle owner and the carrier.

I'm just spinning these scenarios in my head without looking at the policy or the law of any particular jurisdiction, and it's making me very wary.

He goal isn't to win at arbitration or litigation. It's to avoid being involved.

Bottom line:

The more distance she puts between herself and the car, the less likely she is to find herself involved in litigation or arbitration should an accident occur when the boyfriend is driving the car.

The best advice is not to rely on statements on an internet nessage board. The best advice, which I made in an earlier post, is to consult a lawyer in the appropriate jurisdiction.


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Old 03-30-2013, 12:49 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorelei Lee View Post
You are correct that each state is different.

Which is why blanket statements about how to handle the matter arenot ti be trusted.

If she excluded him from the policy under these circumstances . . .

As a plaintiff's attorney I'd be screaming "negligent entrustment", that the owner knew this individual would be driving the car. A story like this . . .where owner does not maintain control of the car but passes control to another individual knowing that the person entrusted with the car is likely to allow the excluded driver to drive the vehicle . . . Is very ripe for litigation.

Even if the vehicle's owner wins, she loses, because she's been dragged into litigation -- not intercompany arbitration-- her carrier may or may not be providing a defense, and by the time things get sorted out, she will have had all sorts of aggravation and expense.

Even if her insurer pays for her defense, even if she wins, she's going to be dragged into the muck.

Ever hear "fraud vitiates the policy"? She knows the guy is going to drive the car but lists him as an excluded driver. She's made a representation to the insurer which is false. I see that as ripe for coverage litigation between the vehicle owner and the carrier.

I'm just spinning these scenarios in my head without looking at the policy or the law of any particular jurisdiction, and it's making me very wary.

He goal isn't to win at arbitration or litigation. It's to avoid being involved.

Bottom line:

The more distance she puts between herself and the car, the less likely she is to find herself involved in litigation or arbitration should an accident occur when the boyfriend is driving the car.

The best advice is not to rely on statements on an internet nessage board. The best advice, which I made in an earlier post, is to consult a lawyer in the appropriate jurisdiction.


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There is no 100% sure way to protect yourself if there are people, lawyers or insurance companies involved.
My neighbor sold a car, the title change was legally recorded at DMV, and he was given paperwork showing the date this was done. DMV was months behind in entering title transfers in the statewide computer system. Car is parked 2 months later by new owner, hit by a guy on a bike, and it's all the guy on the bikes fault, he hit a legally parked car. New owner has no insurance on it. Guy on the bike hires an attorney who files suit against my neighbor, because the information in the state computer system retrived by the investigating officer listed him as the registered owner at the time of the crash. Clearly this guy has no claim, but my neighbors insurance company offers $20,000 settlement, which bike rider accepts, to go away. My neighbor is livid, but his insurance adjuster said all they care about is the botton line cost. Proving this was a baseless lawsuit would cost them close to $100,000, making it go away cost $20,000.
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Old 03-30-2013, 03:22 PM   #55
manning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdwmom0f3 View Post
I would and I seriously thought about doing just that, but I just can't do that to her.
Don't know all the facts but I have to say If she doesn't care about how you feel why should you care about how she feels.

Also when you are gone she is going to have to face the cruel world on her own. Better for her to face it now while she is still young and can recover, and get some guidance from you. When you're gone you won't be able to guide her unless you found out how to do it from the grave.

SELL THE CAR!!!
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