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Old 03-27-2013, 03:15 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3LittleMouses View Post
Has there been tany comments that the FP +will only be for resort guests only. To me that would make sense since they want to fill the rooms up.
The resorts...in the end...run at probably 99% occupancy...365 days a year.

They always have...with the exception of external economics...

you know - "My $600,000 house is worth $150,000" crisis or the "The Saudis are going after my plane...i know it" crisis...

But they don't have a problem filling rooms...

people think that they must have issues because they offer promotions/discounts. That's only slightly true...promotions are a very small piece of the pie that contributes to room occupancy.
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:19 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by 3LittleMouses View Post
Has there been tany comments that the FP +will only be for resort guests only. To me that would make sense since they want to fill the rooms up.
My understanding is that the 60 day advance FP+ bookings will only be available to those with a Disney hotel reservation and Passholders (perhaps on a limited basis to Passholders.)

Day guests will be able to use FP+, but they cannot secure their ride times until arrival at the park. RFID-enabled computer terminals will replace the paper ticket FP machines.

Hotel guests can also opt to use the MagicBands if they wish, at no additional cost. Day guests will get credit card-type park tickets with RFID chips embedded, and can purchase the MagicBands if they wish.

Premium MagicBands will be offered to all--for an additional cost--at some later date.

Aside from that, there has not been any mention of one group getting better in-park FP+ benefits than another.

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Originally Posted by GrnMtnMan View Post
To bring this back around to the first post: did those reports indicate whether or not people who pre-book ride times would be ineligible for in-park FP use (I know about the clause in the T&C that says this)?
Here is the report to which I referred:

http://www.wdwmagic.com/other/mymagi...ets-closer.htm

I have not read anything which suggests additional FPs will be available beyond the daily cap.

Quote:
In any case, I understand your reasoning, but disagree with several of the premises. I think that if I had a choice between 7 attractions, all in FP with minimal wait, versus 10 total attractions, 3 in FP and the rest in stand-by, I'd take the 7. I don't have any data or research to back this up, but I bet there's lots of people like me.
At first blush, I suspect many people do agree with you.

Personally, I think most people don't realize how much time they waste on the current FastPass system. And I'm including myself. Earlier today I responded to another poster who detailed her exact touring method for the Magic Kingdom. When you break it down, she was crossing the MK FOUR TIMES in a 4 hour period to obtain and then use FPs just for the three mountains.

And anyone who is using 7+ sets of FastPasses in a day is likely doing the same thing.

In the January announcement on the Disney Parks Blog, Tom Staggs had this to say:

Quote:
Now, rather than dashing as a group, or even splitting up to gather FastPasses, imagine booking guaranteed ride times for your favorite shows and attractions even before setting foot in the park. With MyMagic+, guests will be able to do that and more, enabling them to spend more time together and creating an experience that’s better for everyone.
I see this as one of the primary motivators for FP+.

Getting back to the poster I mentioned above, she would get FPs for BTMR then Space Mountain then Splash Mountain, crossing the park each time to collect tickets and then to use them, hitting a few other attractions in the middle.

With FP+, you can schedule the major attractions at reasonable times and wind a leisurely path around the park rather than racing from machine-to-machine and being bound by the return times offered right when you claim that ticket.

Will people spend more time in attractions lines? Perhaps. But if everything works as I think it could (should), the Standby lines will move faster and be more entertaining to guests. Personally, I'll trade a little more queue wait time to do away with the need to run around grabbing those FP tickets.
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:33 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
The resorts...in the end...run at probably 99% occupancy...365 days a year.
The 2012 Annual Report lists average occupancy for the domestic resorts as 81%.

The ability to reserve a room on zero notice supports this. Even now--with the MK undergoing phased closures due to high Easter / Spring Break crowds--you could get a room at virtually any resort with a check-in tomorrow.
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:22 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by tjkraz View Post
That's a pretty gross oversimplification but even taking this at face value, I think you're vastly underselling the happiness aspect.
I'm not intentionally underselling the happiness thing...i just think its obvious and assumed it was common sense. In any business...the higher the satisfaction levels - the more spending occurs. That is no more true than at WDW - which is practically the case study for the model.

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Originally Posted by tjkraz View Post
Arriving at noon to find that all of the Toy Story Mania Fastpasses are gone doesn't make guests happy. Return times which are 5-6 hours out don't make guests happy. Walking through Epcot just to get a Soarin FP in The Land doesn't make guests happy. Crossing the Magic Kingdom from Frontierland to Tomorrowland just for a Space Mtn FP doesn't make guests happy.
I agree...and see my previous answer. Those seem like obvious improvements that will increase the smiles and profits along with it.

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Originally Posted by tjkraz View Post
I am certainly not a 9 FP per day guest. But I use far more than two per week. And, with all due respect, I think your perspective puts you out of touch with the typical guest. People don't pay $100 per day for admission and build custom travel plans on sites like TouringPlans and TGM to have a "stop and smell the roses" day at the Magic Kingdom.
Well, if you noticed i referred to "my fellow heavy travelers". We've all been there and should realistically be at the "done that".

And with all due respect...if people have a minimum number of rides per day that they HAVE to have to get $100 in return...then they are still in the wrong place. They can do what they want, but the fact is they aren't "getting" the idea of Disney or WDW...

It was never built to slam people through ride in bulk. That is part of the design...but not nearly as big of a piece as it might seem.

If its about family time...let's just assume (and profit off family - of course)...then the crazy day riding magic kingdom is wanted just as much as the stroll around the Showcase. Not more or less one way or another.

Again...might just be me...been there.

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Originally Posted by tjkraz View Post
IMO, the biggest things NextGen will bring to the table are:

1) Control over ride times. Even now, FP is a take-it-or-leave-it system. You either accept the return time displayed or go elsewhere. This will allow guests to pick their exact time.
agreed. but we know this is gonna be hard to have the disney crowd figure this kinda planning out. people are still to this day so in fear of "making a mistake" with their overpriced disney hours that they will...inevitably...make mistakes on a large scale.
I can only imagine confrontations with employees on large scale debating why someone should be given free passes on rides or taken into booked restaurants late because "it's disney's fault"

I've seen that play thousands of times already.

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Originally Posted by tjkraz View Post
2) Less meaningless walking all over the parks. I don't think the heavy FP users realize how much time they spend collecting and using those tickets. They aren't in attraction queues, but they aren't in gift shops either. They are clogging up the theme park pathways.
Agreed. That is a big plus if the system is designed right and works to a high level. I welcome that.
As a "sit back and take it in"...i'd rather do it with my party on an empty path as opposed to one filled with a south american tour group chasing a yellow flag.
win/win

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Originally Posted by tjkraz View Post
3) Standby waits will more much more tolerable. Lower FP utilization means Standby lines will move faster and the interactive elements will give guests something to do while they wait.
Agree...except that i don't see the same issues with the current fast past system and the "unbearable" stand by lines (with some peter panery exceptions). As Skierpete state on this or another thread...people forget that in the mid 1990's splash mountain was guaranteed 2 hours...tower was 1.5...pirates of the caribbean was rocking 1-2 hour waits from 1975 until at least the early 90's (waited for if for 1:45 in 1992)...haunted mansion was an hour or more...as was the STUDIO BACKLOT TOUR

Things are way better even now than they were then...with more people in the parks each year. How soon we forget.

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4) Wait times for fireworks & parade viewing, Fantasmic and character meets will go down. Often dramatically.
Ok...i'm off the ship on this one.

I'm unfamiliar with the concept of "wait times" for fireworks and parades. I thought you just had to look up at the right time.

I blame fantasmic for this...the ridiculous idea to sit for two hours for a 20 minute show that practically the whole park watches anyway.

That's disney...once of a lifetime magical dreams of wishy celebrations...

Its a personal thing...but there is no justification in my mind to sit on a curb for 45 minutes to see a parade that has more than likely been rehashed at the park 20 times over the last 40 years...or see fireworks that are changed about 15 years on average. or fantasmic...which was cool the first time but has pretty much no repeat value - and again is 15 years old and stale as can be. The fact is that mgm was better with sorcerey...mk was better with fantasy...and illuminations (still the best) time has come...even though its deeply personal to me but i have to be honest.

I know...its just me...we'll agree to disagree.

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Originally Posted by tjkraz View Post
Fewer attractions per day isn't going to increase guest spending. That only frustrates and disappoints customers. It reduces the overall value of the product.

They can free-up time in select areas (FP running, wait-times for non-attraction experiences) and increase overall guest satisfaction with the attraction lines which are unavoidable. Then you have a happy clientele which is willing to spend additional dollars.
We almost ok here...except that doing the same amount of things in a smaller time can do both things: free up more time for happy peeps and get them to swipe their cards (or wristband) more readily. Or they can increase their perceived "value" with more rides if they so choose...as long as they buy the on ride photo

now people may have the option:
go on Soarin' 3 times
or...decide that once was enough (it is) and spend another hour to two in the showcase drinking grey goose slushies (my choice)
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:50 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
Ok...i'm off the ship on this one. (parades)

I'm unfamiliar with the concept of "wait times" for fireworks and parades. I thought you just had to look up at the right time.

I blame fantasmic for this...the ridiculous idea to sit for two hours for a 20 minute show that practically the whole park watches anyway.

That's disney...once of a lifetime magical dreams of wishy celebrations...

Its a personal thing...but there is no justification in my mind to sit on a curb for 45 minutes to see a parade that has more than likely been rehashed at the park 20 times over the last 40 years...or see fireworks that are changed about 15 years on average. or fantasmic...which was cool the first time but has pretty much no repeat value - and again is 15 years old and stale as can be. The fact is that mgm was better with sorcerey...mk was better with fantasy...and illuminations (still the best) time has come...even though its deeply personal to me but i have to be honest.

I know...its just me...we'll agree to disagree.
Actually we agree on that one. Personally I detest parades. My "Top 10 Worst Disney Behavior" was all witnessed during parades--usually people who waltz right up as the parade is coming around the corner and expect everyone to make room for their family of 5 (plus stroller and other travel gear.)

I haven't seen Fantasmic at WDW in 4-5 years. My approach to Wishes and Illuminations is the same as your: look up! And it's been eons since I've waited in a line longer than 5 min for a character. (Our kids are getting a little old for characters but usually I would just fork-over the dough for one or two character meals per trip.

That said, as you've seen there are hundreds of people every trip who line the sidewalks literally HOURS before the parades and fireworks begin. The character meet lines can be longer than 90% of attraction Standby lines. And Fantasmic draws nearly 10,000 nightly who queue-up 2 hours ahead.

All of those are areas where Disney can free-up guest time and probably earn some extra dough in the process. Sure there are people who will still spend the extra time to be front row, center. But particularly for something like Fantasmic, many people just want to be in the theater. I'll take last row with a 15 minute wait over front row and a 2 hour wait ANYDAY!

Disney is reportedly spending a billion dollars on NextGen and they will want to make their money back. But it's not just going to be t-shirts and turkey legs. It's going to be a massive collection of items where they will try to recoup: higher hotel occupancy, higher hotel prices, more on-ride photo packages, designer wristbands, etc, etc, etc.

After following this for a couple of years, I believe that Disney originally hoped to directly monetize FP+...that they would charge for the entire kit and kaboodle regardless of where you were staying, what ticket you bought, etc. That assumption may have been built into the original proposal.

But I think over time they slowly began to realize a pay-for-play FP wouldn't fly with guests.

I have no idea what sort of financial return they now project for the entire NextGen project. But I do think once implemented, most guests will be wowed by the entire program. Everything from the door locks to wristbands, touch-to-pay, touch-to-enter park gates, FP+, RFID attraction enhancements...it has the potential to be a real difference maker for the Disney brand. And it's technology which could (and probably will) be ported to all of the other parks.

That $1B includes a lot of R&D for tech which will be replicated at a dozen other Disney parks.
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:10 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by tjkraz View Post
The 2012 Annual Report lists average occupancy for the domestic resorts as 81%.

The ability to reserve a room on zero notice supports this. Even now--with the MK undergoing phased closures due to high Easter / Spring Break crowds--you could get a room at virtually any resort with a check-in tomorrow.
First, I'm shocked they put that to paper...

Second, I'm trying to think if 2011 was bad enough from an economy standpoint that the number is still recession based...

I can't honestly remember.

But my numbers are out of date. Just as anecdote from history - One hotel...in particular had an average occupancy rate from October 1988 (hint) to 2001 of 99.97 %.

But again, unfortunately i don't have access to these things directly anymore. Perhaps they have over saturated? perhaps they have pulled to much of their core clientele out of the rack rooms and dumped them into expanding DVC? Maybe the economy is far worse than the news would still have you believe (my stance)? maybe disney's price structure and relative lack of investment has become more than what's left of the gutted "middle" class can support (my stance)?

By and large though...i'm gonna have to stick with my original point...disney has never had very significant occupancy problems...especially not those that would have to institute a resort only gimmick like universal.

but as you point out...perhaps the golden days are behind them and me.
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:07 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkraz View Post
That's a pretty gross oversimplification but even taking this at face value, I think you're vastly underselling the happiness aspect.

Arriving at noon to find that all of the Toy Story Mania Fastpasses are gone doesn't make guests happy. Return times which are 5-6 hours out don't make guests happy. Walking through Epcot just to get a Soarin FP in The Land doesn't make guests happy. Crossing the Magic Kingdom from Frontierland to Tomorrowland just for a Space Mtn FP doesn't make guests happy.

I am certainly not a 9 FP per day guest. But I use far more than two per week. And, with all due respect, I think your perspective puts you out of touch with the typical guest. People don't pay $100 per day for admission and build custom travel plans on sites like TouringPlans and TGM to have a "stop and smell the roses" day at the Magic Kingdom.

IMO, the biggest things NextGen will bring to the table are:

1) Control over ride times. Even now, FP is a take-it-or-leave-it system. You either accept the return time displayed or go elsewhere. This will allow guests to pick their exact time. I agree here and think you are right to an extent. I think we are still going to have issues in how available rides are at any given time of the day

2) Less meaningless walking all over the parks. I don't think the heavy FP users realize how much time they spend collecting and using those tickets. They aren't in attraction queues, but they aren't in gift shops either. They are clogging up the theme park pathways. This is a good point as well. Being able to pull out my phone and pick my rides will allow me to spend more time in shops and such and less walking around the parks. I still think we are going to see a system kinda like we have now in addition to the pre selected times. (no supporting information to back it up though.)

3) Standby waits will more much more tolerable. Lower FP utilization means Standby lines will move faster and the interactive elements will give guests something to do while they wait. I'm not sure I agree with this one. I don't think we are going to see lower FP utilization, if anything we will see a higher return rate for reasons you have already mentioned. A guest is much more likely to use a FP return time if they selected a return time versus how it works now. I would be willing to bet that over 10% of passes issued in the current system do not get used due to inconvenient return times. This number would have been less a year ago when they did not enforce the return window.

4) Wait times for fireworks & parade viewing, Fantasmic and character meets will go down. Often dramatically. This depends on the amount of view areas they set aside for FP.

Fewer attractions per day isn't going to increase guest spending. That only frustrates and disappoints customers. It reduces the overall value of the product.
I really don't think the amount of attractions the average guest rides has anything to do with overall satisfaction of that guest unless its to the extreme.

They can free-up time in select areas (FP running, wait-times for non-attraction experiences) and increase overall guest satisfaction with the attraction lines which are unavoidable. Then you have a happy clientele which is willing to spend additional dollars.
See above.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:32 PM   #68
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don't think we are going to see lower FP utilization, if anything we will see a higher return rate for reasons you have already mentioned. A guest is much more likely to use a FP return time if they selected a return time versus how it works now. I would be willing to bet that over 10% of passes issued in the current system do not get used due to inconvenient return times. This number would have been less a year ago when they did not enforce the return window.
When I refer to "lower utilization", what I was really addressing is the number of FPs issued relative to overall attraction capacity.

Right now FASTPASSES are unlimited and only available at a select number of attractions.

When FP+ debuts, guests will reportedly be limited to just 3 passes each and there will be nearly 3x as many attractions and experiences with FP.

Unless that hard cap of 3 passes is dramatically raised, we will probably see a growth in the number of Standby riders. Of course, lines will also move quicker with fewer FP ticketholders bypassing Standby.

To your point, it's possible that guests will do a better job of keeping their times. But it could also swing the other direction, with some guests disregarding FP+ reservations they made days or weeks ago. I'm not sure that it even matters since attraction capacities aren't changing. With every FP+ no-show, Standby lines will move faster.

The thing that mystifies me about public reaction is that most people seem to think they will be on the losing end with FP+. Are we to believe that there is a large population who CANNOT figure out how to the paper ticket FP system works but WILL go on-line and reserve their ride times before arrival?

Some tried-and-true strategies may need to be altered but not everyone can end up with a lesser experience.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:02 PM   #69
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More comments, I love a good debate.
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When I refer to "lower utilization", what I was really addressing is the number of FPs issued relative to overall attraction capacity.
I understand what you mean but you may be misunderstanding me. I'll try and explain better below.
Right now FASTPASSES are unlimited and only available at a select number of attractions.
Fastpasses are in no way "unlimited". Each day there is a set amount of passes that are issued for any given attraction. This is a set amount per hour and more will never be given(maybe less depending on demand). ie, Today, 500 FP have been issued for BTM. So lets say 10% do not get used and only 450 spots on the ride can be attributed to FP. Now lets jump to a point in time that FP+ is fully in effect. There is no information that makes me believe that there will be a different amount of FP issued in any given day, so 500 people have the opportunity to schedule a FP return time for BTM. IMO the conversion rate will be greater then 90% so we would actually see an increase in utilization of the pass.

Now I get your point about adding more FP opportunities by adding attractions that take part in the program, we just don't know yet how that will play out until the full details are released on the amount one guest can actually utilize in any given day.


When FP+ debuts, guests will reportedly be limited to just 3 passes each and there will be nearly 3x as many attractions and experiences with FP.

Yes, as it stands, but we don't know if there will be any other way to utilize the system other then the pre visit reservations. Also, one key piece of information is the average adoption rate of FP per person currently. IMO we will see a higher rate with the new system. Will it be 3 times as much, my guess is we will never know.

Unless that hard cap of 3 passes is dramatically raised, we will probably see a growth in the number of Standby riders. Of course, lines will also move quicker with fewer FP ticketholders bypassing Standby.
I don't think it has to be as dramatic of a raise as you make it out to be but yes, this idea is sound. Where i don't think it will have any effect at all is the d and e ticket attractions. We have to assume all FP slots will be distributed on any given day for these attractions and right now there is no reason to think they will issue any less slots each day then they do right now.

To your point, it's possible that guests will do a better job of keeping their times. But it could also swing the other direction, with some guests disregarding FP+ reservations they made days or weeks ago. I'm not sure that it even matters since attraction capacities aren't changing. With every FP+ no-show, Standby lines will move faster.
Ok, so maybe we agree that the no-show rate will be a wash between the 2 systems. That means we would see no positive or negative effects on line from them and we can rule it out all together.

The thing that mystifies me about public reaction is that most people seem to think they will be on the losing end with FP+. Are we to believe that there is a large population who CANNOT figure out how to the paper ticket FP system works but WILL go on-line and reserve their ride times before arrival?
I agree here. Everything about FP+ seems great to me. Just all the ideas I can personally come up with that would be so amazing I just can't wait to see what Disney comes up with. (the idea of just pulling out my phone, ordering lunch from Pecos Bills then going to find a seat at a table while someone brings me my order is outstanding. Mind you, I would still need to hit the fixin's bar. )

Some tried-and-true strategies may need to be altered but not everyone can end up with a lesser experience.
Yep, I think the average person has a better overall experience. The problem is that the average dis boards user is not the average Disney vacationer by any means.
I do miss the days of being able to use my FP anytime after the return time, but I can live with that.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:12 PM   #70
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Personally, I think most people don't realize how much time they waste on the current FastPass system. And I'm including myself. Earlier today I responded to another poster who detailed her exact touring method for the Magic Kingdom. When you break it down, she was crossing the MK FOUR TIMES in a 4 hour period to obtain and then use FPs just for the three mountains.
At least in that scenario she was able to get FPs for all three mountains. The way they're grouping the rides and allowing you to choose a certain number makes this impossible under the new system. At most you could get FPs for two mountains, and you might not get any if those are all taken up by guests with earlier booking privileges.

I also don't see how this system will reduce waiting for parades, shows, and fireworks. If a big chunk of the seating area is now reserved for FP+, then getting there early will be even more important if you don't have a FP.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:27 PM   #71
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The thing that mystifies me about public reaction is that most people seem to think they will be on the losing end with FP+. Are we to believe that there is a large population who CANNOT figure out how to the paper ticket FP system works but WILL go on-line and reserve their ride times before arrival?
Well, my Dad's theory is that this is happening so Disney can better manage large tour groups. Disney says people can only get 3 per person, but with everything that can potentially happen behind the scenes, who knows. Disney is always looking for growth, and if they could attract even more South American tour groups, and schedule them to prevent them from overwhelming an attraction by having 3 groups arrive at once (I've been in that, not good), or trying to fit into the fireworks areas at the last minute, Disney would see it as a win-win-win (for them, for the tour group, for the other guests impacted by the large tour groups).

Now, I'm not sure I believe my Dad theory that this is the primary motivator behind FP+, but I am curious about how FP+ is going to work for those groups. Right now, you see the guides collecting the FPs. If Disney does make it so they can pay or reserve more, it would negatively influence everyone else.

But aside from that. Reserving FPs online might be something a travel agent could do, that can't happen with the current FP setup. Like some travel agents do for dining reservations.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:57 PM   #72
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That said, as you've seen there are hundreds of people every trip who line the sidewalks literally HOURS before the parades and fireworks begin. The character meet lines can be longer than 90% of attraction Standby lines. And Fantasmic draws nearly 10,000 nightly who queue-up 2 hours ahead.


Disney is reportedly spending a billion dollars on NextGen and they will want to make their money back. But it's not just going to be t-shirts and turkey legs. It's going to be a massive collection of items where they will try to recoup: higher hotel occupancy, higher hotel prices, more on-ride photo packages, designer wristbands, etc, etc, etc.

After following this for a couple of years, I believe that Disney originally hoped to directly monetize FP+...that they would charge for the entire kit and kaboodle regardless of where you were staying, what ticket you bought, etc. That assumption may have been built into the original proposal.

But I think over time they slowly began to realize a pay-for-play FP wouldn't fly with guests.

I have no idea what sort of financial return they now project for the entire NextGen project. But I do think once implemented, most guests will be wowed by the entire program. Everything from the door locks to wristbands, touch-to-pay, touch-to-enter park gates, FP+, RFID attraction enhancements...it has the potential to be a real difference maker for the Disney brand. And it's technology which could (and probably will) be ported to all of the other parks.

That $1B includes a lot of R&D for tech which will be replicated at a dozen other Disney parks.
The bold: Waiting in lines for parades is the dumbest behavior in a Disney Park...and i swear it was fantasmic that did it. The whole "dinner package" and "reserved seating" nonsense.

If somebody sits for two hours to wait for a 10-20 minute parade or show...i view it as a form of social darwinism...aka the rocks sink.

Take a look at anybody coming out of a park after a show, parade, fantasmic - there are no smiles in the whole herd of cattle...just "great...now lets get out of here" looks.

Italics:

You aren't suggesting...by chance...that perhaps they're planning on an elaborate bait and switch with the enhanced id thing are you?

No way...Disney would NEVER do that. I hadn't even considered it.

There's nothing i can think of...say from 2005 to today...where they started with a very advantageous (often free) concept to the customer that was slowly augmented, modified, and fees increased to where the current crowd is really just paying about what they would anyway (upfront i might add) and do it compulsively as if its just the "normal" thing to do...
And now it most likely generates profit?

I can't think of a single thing that could be husseled on the masses...not one
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:53 PM   #73
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Fastpasses are in no way "unlimited". Each day there is a set amount of passes that are issued for any given attraction.
When I said that FASTPASSES are "unlimited", I meant that there was no cap on the number that each guest could claim in an operating day. Here we've seen people claim they get 7-8-9 PFs per day. Meanwhile we know that there are some park guests who take zero.

So what's a safe average? Maybe 3 per guest, per day under the current system? If so, then we know FP rides will go down on a per-attraction basis because so many new FP destinations are being added.

At MK there are currently only nine FP attractions...and that includes Dumbo and Ariel which just debuted. With FASTPASS+ there will be at least 20.

Three FP+ per guest, per day, spread over more than twice as many attractions should thin things out considerably.

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Where i don't think it will have any effect at all is the d and e ticket attractions. We have to assume all FP slots will be distributed on any given day for these attractions and right now there is no reason to think they will issue any less slots each day then they do right now.
Don't forget about the attraction groupings.

Currently, I understand that 75% FASTPASS is the operating norm for most attractions. On busier days it could climb to well over 90% FP. And my experiences pretty much support those numbers. I suspect we've all had exposure to the FP bias on attractions like Soarin, Test Track and RNR. Those FP arrivals just keep flowing and they only allow people in from Standby very sparingly.

At Hollywood Studios guests will reportedly be able to choose one FP+ from a group that includes Toy Story Mania, Rock N Rollercoaster and Fantasmic.

Average park attendance is 25,000 guests and average operating day is about 12 hours (shorter during slow seasons, longer during peak.) RNR and TSM have hourly rider capacities of 1800 and 1200. That's 36000 riders per day, plus the 10000 for Fantasmic or 48000 total.

With 25K guests and 48K capacity on those 3 attractions, that grouping could run 50% FP+, 50% Standby and still satisfy everyone wishing to use FP+ under these terms.

At MK, you'll have all three Mountains in one grouping along with a handful of other attractions. During the last testing phase they had Buzz, Peter Pan, parade & fireworks viewing, two character meets in with the Mountains and each guests could choose TWO per day. Those attractions represent enough capacity to drop FP usage down to a similar 50% level.

Disney could go to higher levels on certain attractions to meet guest demand. It remains to be seen how that will be handled.

And there will be a decided advantage to Disney resort guests who pre-book FP+. That doesn't necessarily mean you will have to get on-line right at 60 days. I don't think that will be necessary...unless it's for something like parade or fireworks viewing if those options prove to be popular.

But if you're staying at a Disney resort, you best secure your FP+ before 8/9am when the parks open for the day. That's when the flood gates literally will open, with thousands of day guests scrapping over whatever FP+ slots remain. Again there will be enough capacity in the system for everyone to get something...but you might have to choose between Fantasmic or RnR if TSM is all booked.

That's Disney's end game in all of this. Pay a little more to stay at a Disney hotel and you can schedule your FP+ from home days or weeks in advance. Stay off-site and....take your chances.
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:21 PM   #74
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I have only been passively following the discussion on the Orwellian Disney rollout...

BUT...nothing will convince me that they have any interests in deploying a system that causes people to spend more time riding rides or waiting for them.

that is exactly opposite of their business goals. The goal is to keep people happier with less time devoted to the ride process. That allows a happier (aka loose with the wallet) clientele that can fill out their time with more retail, food and dining time.

That is the goal...not even a question.

and on another note...

And i have to laugh at some of my fellow heavy travelers who talk about using 5, 7, 9 + fast passes PER DAY?!?!?

Good god, i might use two sets per week. How many times can you ride Splash and Pirates? Which are my two favorite rides in history (with Kennywood's Racer, Thunderbolt, , The Hulk, Montu and Aplengeist getting honorable mention)
WDW is a place to relax, eat, take it in, go to the pool...not a place to run around like a nut from ride to ride. the rides aren't that good...to be honest. they're fun - not repeatable must dos each day.

If you want to run around...go to Cedar Point.

You guys have me laughing - anyway
~LOL -- too funny!

~Anyway, this -- one million times! I could have written it myself -- I'm so glad it's not just me who feels this way. Great post, logic!

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That's a pretty gross oversimplification but even taking this at face value, I think you're vastly underselling the happiness aspect.

Arriving at noon to find that all of the Toy Story Mania Fastpasses are gone doesn't make guests happy. Return times which are 5-6 hours out don't make guests happy. Walking through Epcot just to get a Soarin FP in The Land doesn't make guests happy. Crossing the Magic Kingdom from Frontierland to Tomorrowland just for a Space Mtn FP doesn't make guests happy.

I am certainly not a 9 FP per day guest. But I use far more than two per week. And, with all due respect, I think your perspective puts you out of touch with the typical guest. People don't pay $100 per day for admission and build custom travel plans on sites like TouringPlans and TGM to have a "stop and smell the roses" day at the Magic Kingdom.

IMO, the biggest things NextGen will bring to the table are:

1) Control over ride times. Even now, FP is a take-it-or-leave-it system. You either accept the return time displayed or go elsewhere. This will allow guests to pick their exact time.

2) Less meaningless walking all over the parks. I don't think the heavy FP users realize how much time they spend collecting and using those tickets. They aren't in attraction queues, but they aren't in gift shops either. They are clogging up the theme park pathways.

3) Standby waits will more much more tolerable. Lower FP utilization means Standby lines will move faster and the interactive elements will give guests something to do while they wait.

4) Wait times for fireworks & parade viewing, Fantasmic and character meets will go down. Often dramatically.

Fewer attractions per day isn't going to increase guest spending. That only frustrates and disappoints customers. It reduces the overall value of the product.

They can free-up time in select areas (FP running, wait-times for non-attraction experiences) and increase overall guest satisfaction with the attraction lines which are unavoidable. Then you have a happy clientele which is willing to spend additional dollars.
~YES!!! I totally agree, tjkraz! Gosh, you are wicked smart! Love this post & this thread, really.

~Okay, you guys are wearing me out, I can't keep up. I'm finally done with page four & I can't wait to read page five sometime later. This is the best FP+ discussion ever! So many brilliant minds at work!!!
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:19 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by tjkraz View Post
Yes I did see the post but my comments are limited to what we know from the published terms and conditions, along with information from reputable Disney news sources.

My opinions may change as new information comes to light, but I'm not going to invest time and energy addressing Cast Member rumor & speculation.

Incidentally, most of the tests provided FOUR FP+ experiences per day so the information quoted is not even accurate in that regard. At least one website is reporting that Cast Members were briefed on the system last week, and told it would launch with a limit of three per day.



Until proven otherwise, yes I am.
um, my information is very much correct. it was addressed by a Cast member AND reported by a number of sites that testing for FP+ was limited to 3 per guest. this is the first i've EVER heard of having any more than 3.
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