EMH being axed????

[FigmentChick]

Originally Posted by peyjax

I honestly do not mean to be snarky. Promise

I am surprised however with all your posts and the length of time you have been on the disboards that you would believe that someone in Guest Services is in the "know" when it comes to this? Like the PP mentioned the employeeson the phone are usually the last to know. I can not tell you how many times many of us talk to guest services and get frustrated that we are more informed than they are. It is frustrating and I learned long ago calling does not mean much. We just have to wait and see. Change though is inevitable in all things.

This is the rumour board so I would not get to anxious yet!

Originally Posted by peyjax

It used to be the Dining Plan being available was a perk. It is obvious by your posts and many others like it the value is no longer there and is no longer a perk. I thought it was interesting.

And I'm surprised that as long as you've been on here you have such a nasty tone to your voice. You can say you don't want to be snarky all you want, your tone not only in response to me, but to another poster show differently.

That being said, I guess the CM I spoke to was "in the know" now that the September calendar has been publicly released.

[Mom2six]

Originally Posted by AshleighYu

Sorry here is the link.

http://media.disneywebcontent.com/St...endar_sept.pdf

LOL. There are some typos on this calendar. Epcot is listed as being open most days from 12a.m. - 9p.m., but on the 27th and 28th it is open from 13 a.m. - 9 p.m. I know Disney is magic, but 13 a.m is a new one for me!

[singastory]

Morning EMH mean nothing to me in my mid-20s with no kids, but I would be DEVASTATED if they got rid of evening EMH, especially in high season. I love being able to stay until 2 am when it's cooler and doing the big ticket rides. I'm glad Sep. calendar still has them listed.

[the who #3]

no! to remove emh would be disaster!

there are so many days that the parks are so crowded that we can not get on the rides. emh is our only way on some trips.

also that is a special time my grandson and i have always spent together. we would miss that so much.

[lockedoutlogic]

Originally Posted by FigmentChick

That being said, I guess the CM I spoke to was "in the know" now that the September calendar has been publicly released.

"Guest services" show up, punch a clock, and then leave and deal with the realities of their employment and the problems it brings...like every other rank and file WDW employee.

They are not "specialized" nor trained in any elaborate manner. In most cases they just gravitate to that type of job.

They do not have prior access to policy changes, strategic changes, or any "classified" information.

In most cases they simply have limited access to the central computer system and that yields nothing unique.

So the "snarky" criticisms of criticism...while unnecessary, are somewhat understandable when the same problem occurs over an over again.

And that problem is "I called up an 800 number and somebody told me...because they KNOW"

No...they don't...never did, never will.

Typically the public knows first. WDW is a multibillion dollar annual revenue generator for a huge corporation. They do not want 55,000 generally low trained foot soldiers running around with non-disclosed information that could affect that business.
So the simple, easy, effective policy is to tell them nothing of value.

The "snark"...at least for me...sometimes comes from having to be repetitive on this FACT to the point of mental exhaustion.
I guess the best policy is to ignore it...but it becomes difficult when you see people buying in and setting themselves up for disappointment on an almost daily basis. Sometimes even snarkers care and mean well.

[lockedoutlogic]

Originally Posted by JoWiJo

On one hand, I would be disappointed if they are gone. It's not merely about being able to ride the rides a little bit longer, it's also about simply being able to stay inside a little longer. Getting inside an hour early just makes the place all the more fun.

On the other hand, with the evening EMH, the time I was able to use these, the places were dead. Yeah, it was a perk being able to get onto rides as easily as the FP line, but the crowds were so thin, the parks felt closed. When in the MK I felt like I was staying inside the park after being told to leave and EPCOT left me feeling like I was wandering back alleys alone in a strange city. I found myself second-guessing whether I had the right park on the right night.

Based on my 2009 trip, I could certainly see them removing the evening hours. But the morning hours should stay.

Lol...
This is a great description of what EMH nights often end up like.
Perfect descriptions...well done...and EXACTLY why Disney will look to phase them out.

Nothing is new to me at the WDW parks, and I know them (guest and service areas) almost like the back of my hand...but even I sometimes feel out of place in the parks late.

I don't want to shop...I don't want to eat...and that really makes it a loss for the management to have them open.

I think very few people agree to pay the overpriced Disney rack rates to get the EMHs...because then they bludgeon you for tickets to get in on top.

$3000-$5000 for a week (room and passes for a family of 4) for a hour a day somewhere when there are 25,000 rooms filled with people with the same idea? Doesn't really add up.

I just think EMH's "seismic" effects are being overstated.

People book Disney hotels because:

1. No matter what any outside hotel says - it is a lot more difficult to access The property from the outside and you loose More valuable vacation time each day to do it.
2. Generally speaking, Disney still offers a higher overall quality level and uniform theme than outside chains. Though they have been better and there is room for improvement.
3. Many if not most are repeats...which means they are creatures of habit. They like the disneyness of the hotels...it adds
To their perception and memories.

So a premium is paid. There are other reasons, of course, but objectively those are the root reasons at the end of the day.

Not EMH, package delivery, or refillable mugs. (But I like all those things)

Magical express...the case can be made...is far
More responsible for bookings now than EMH.

That used to mean a rental car...without it, probably a 200-300 dollar average savings for the week. Real convenience and real money back in the pocket.

[peyjax]

Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic

"Guest services" show up, punch a clock, and then leave and deal with the realities of their employment and the problems it brings...like every other rank and file WDW employee.

They are not "specialized" nor trained in any elaborate manner. In most cases they just gravitate to that type of job.

They do not have prior access to policy changes, strategic changes, or any "classified" information.

In most cases they simply have limited access to the central computer system and that yields nothing unique.

So the "snarky" criticisms of criticism...while unnecessary, are somewhat understandable when the same problem occurs over an over again.



And that problem is "I called up an 800 number and somebody told me...because they KNOW"

No...they don't...never did, never will.

Typically the public knows first. WDW is a multibillion dollar annual revenue generator for a huge corporation. They do not want 55,000 generally low trained foot soldiers running around with non-disclosed information that could affect that business.
So the simple, easy, effective policy is to tell them nothing of value.

The "snark"...at least for me...sometimes comes from having to be repetitive on this FACT to the point of mental exhaustion.
I guess the best policy is to ignore it...but it becomes difficult when you see people buying in and setting themselves up for disappointment on an almost daily basis. Sometimes even snarkers care and mean well.

Thank you! Obviously you were saying what I was trying to but I guess did not say so well. I really did not mean to be mean but did not respond to PP as I did not want to start a fight.

Like you said it is frustrating to see people set themselves up for disappointment when time and time again you see it or have experienced it yourself. Most of us just share what we have learned and do so with good intentions. Personally I have learned mass amounts of Disney "street smarts" on the DIS!

I do hope that it is not canceled and the PP gets to have EMH as we always enjoyed having it but it does seem Disney is changing so much these days that I would not be surprised if it goes away soon.

[Mom2six]

Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic

Lol...
This is a great description of what EMH nights often end up like.
Perfect descriptions...well done...and EXACTLY why Disney will look to phase them out.

Nothing is new to me at the WDW parks, and I know them (guest and service areas) almost like the back of my hand...but even I sometimes feel out of place in the parks late.

I don't want to shop...I don't want to eat...and that really makes it a loss for the management to have them open.

I think very few people agree to pay the overpriced Disney rack rates to get the EMHs...because then they bludgeon you for tickets to get in on top.
.....

Not EMH, package delivery, or refillable mugs. (But I like all those things)

Magical express...the case can be made...is far
More responsible for bookings now than EMH.

That used to mean a rental car...without it, probably a 200-300 dollar average savings for the week. Real convenience and real money back in the pocket.

EMH and the refillable mugs played a part in our decision to stay at a Disney resort on our next trip rather than off site. We really enjoy going to MK's EMH - usually the day we arrive they have them. Getting 8 hours versus 5 or 6 makes it worth going that day. We also usually end up going to AK during the day that Epcot has EMH, resting late afternoon at the pool and going to Epcot around 6 or 7. If they closed at 9 that night, it would not be worth it.

Also , I love the refillable mugs. With 4 teens there is a lot of bickering while I am getting the 2 younger kids ready, so I use the mugs as an easy way to get a couple of them out the door - why don't you go fill the mugs. Which then also involves a stop to pin trade.

So the mugs and EMH make a difference to me. We drive so don't use ME. I never use the package delivery either, though I should.

[mcd2745]

Everyone can rank the different "perks" in terms of importance to them and their families.

For me and my family, EMH and refillable mugs would be lower on the list with ME and Disney Transportation as a whole at the top.

I don't want to deal with a rental car. And as lockedoutlogic said, access to the parks is simply easier staying on site and i agree you lose lots of valuable time. On one of our trips a while back, we rented a car for a few days in the middle of our stay to go visit family on the Gulf coast one day and also go to Sea World and Universal. The day we went to Universal, they closed at 5pm for some reason (we weren't happy about that), so since it was still early we went straight to MK. I found it quite the hassle to park, ride a tram to the TTC and then ferry over to MK - particularly when compared to being dropped off right in front of the gate.

I also like the package delivery perk. We don't buy too much, but I like knowing if we see something we really want, we can just buy it and send it to the resort. Otherwise, (and this is where it helps their bottom line as well) since we don't want to carry the stuff around, we'd probably say that we'll go back at the end of the day to pick it up and it would likely be 50/50 at best that we do end up buying whatever it is.

I think I said earlier in this thread that we usually avoid the evening EMH park - and that it's hard to get a handle on whether or not they are worth it since posts here are very conflicting as far as the crowds at evening EMH. So that's not a perk that would drive us offsite if it were gone.

Bottom line, they need to keep collection of these different perks in place, as no one perk will appeal to everyone.

[Cogswel_Cogs]

Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic

Lol...
Magical express...the case can be made...is far
More responsible for bookings now than EMH.

That used to mean a rental car...without it, probably a 200-300 dollar average savings for the week. Real convenience and real money back in the pocket.

I think you are wrong,
Magical express only accounts for half the attendees at best because not all fly.

I think if they were not to give inside park perk to attendees it would kill them. I really think they would have to shut one hotel from each price type.
Only my oppinion but most people I know always talk of it as the best perk, especially the new people going for the first time. You need those new people comming in to maintain your return customer level as some people bow out (kids get old etc.)

[ChipnDale79]

Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic

Lol...



People book Disney hotels because:

1. No matter what any outside hotel says - it is a lot more difficult to access The property from the outside and you loose More valuable vacation time each day to do it.
2. Generally speaking, Disney still offers a higher overall quality level and uniform theme than outside chains. Though they have been better and there is room for improvement.
3. Many if not most are repeats...which means they are creatures of habit. They like the disneyness of the hotels...it adds
To their perception and memories.

1. Sometimes it can actually be faster to get to park from a non-resort hotel. Your car is faster than a bus 9 times out of 10.
2. Theme may be better, but non-resort hotels offer nicer rooms for a much lower price.
3. I can agree with that. One thing that people tend to forget, if you stay at a non-resort hotel, you usually get program points for those hotels, which translates into free nights.

We choose to stay onsite because of the EMH, without it, its not worth it to us. I'll pay far less money to stay at a nicer hotel and just drive my car.

But that's just me....

[pooh2001]

I think there are more EMH during peak days and when it is value season, resorts not being filled to capacity, the EMH are cut back.

Why pay employees when the Parks will not look like the day time hours ?
It would be an extra expense to have one employee to 5 guests, when it should be one employee to 50 guests. Each ride should at least have some sort of a line - or a flow of people. Not an empty line with the CM trying to lure guests onto the ride.

We have done MK at 1 am on an EMH evening - the only difference from during the day was the sky was dark with stars. Guests were everywhere. Buses and the monorail were filled with tired but happy guests.

EXAMPLE

During Peak days:
MK EMH AM on Monday and Thursday
MK EMH PM on Wednesday and Saturday

During the not so busy - value days:
MK EMH AM on Thursday
MK EMH PM on Saturday

[lockedoutlogic]

Originally Posted by Cogswel_Cogs

I think you are wrong,
Magical express only accounts for half the attendees at best because not all fly.

I think if they were not to give inside park perk to attendees it would kill them. I really think they would have to shut one hotel from each price type.
Only my oppinion but most people I know always talk of it as the best perk, especially the new people going for the first time. You need those new people comming in to maintain your return customer level as some people bow out (kids get old etc.)

I love differences of opinion and this conversation is a great one for it...so thanks to everyone.

BUT...I have to disagree.

Most people do not drive.

Many people do...but not most. I did my time in resorts...and it's simple numbers...there are far fewer parking spots than rooms. Which means the assertion that that its even possible to have a "car per room" or even Half that is physically impossible.

You can even expand that...there are 450 hotels in Orlando and almost all are funneling people into WDW...that's hundreds of thousands of rooms.
Disney has 20 or so hotel
Locations with about 30000 rooms...

So considering that off site hotels supply huge numbers each day...and many if not most people drive and park...they must have a ton of parking, right?
Magic kingdom or EPCOT can have 125,000 on a capacity day...so each must have 50,000 spots to hold the cars?

Nope...MK 12,150...EPCOT 11,000...studios 6,500

The point? Your perception of driving is off. Not that many people drive...a good number do...but not a 50% split.
So while magical express may not be half...it's a far greater percentage than you think.

And while EMH is a great perk used by many...I think it's not as big as people give it credit for...nor do I think the discontinuation would tick the dial very much against Disney's business.

The good news is that I think Disney's new business model is what made EMH necessary in the first place.
Namely vacation club. DVC owners were pulled from the repeat resort guest crowd.
And since roughly 2000...the approximately time of large scale DVC expansion (along with some misguided projects in pop century and AKL) Disney has had a relatively hard time staying at full capacity - which they never did in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

So a shift in travel habits - I believe that Disney caused - forced some perks like EMH into being.

I know carribean had a 99.97% occupancy rate from 1988 through jan 2001. That's everyday...365 days a year...2112 rooms.

Now with the online booking and some time wasting/snooping...you can track that things aren't "fully booked" very often anymore. I think they might have picked their own bones a little.

As long as that is the case...I can see them continuing
Limit access benefits for a while.

[JoWiJo]

Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic

Lol...
This is a great description of what EMH nights often end up like.
Perfect descriptions...well done...and EXACTLY why Disney will look to phase them out.

Nothing is new to me at the WDW parks, and I know them (guest and service areas) almost like the back of my hand...but even I sometimes feel out of place in the parks late.

I don't want to shop...I don't want to eat...and that really makes it a loss for the management to have them open.

I think very few people agree to pay the overpriced Disney rack rates to get the EMHs...because then they bludgeon you for tickets to get in on top.

$3000-$5000 for a week (room and passes for a family of 4) for a hour a day somewhere when there are 25,000 rooms filled with people with the same idea? Doesn't really add up.

I just think EMH's "seismic" effects are being overstated.

People book Disney hotels because:

1. No matter what any outside hotel says - it is a lot more difficult to access The property from the outside and you loose More valuable vacation time each day to do it.
2. Generally speaking, Disney still offers a higher overall quality level and uniform theme than outside chains. Though they have been better and there is room for improvement.
3. Many if not most are repeats...which means they are creatures of habit. They like the disneyness of the hotels...it adds
To their perception and memories.

So a premium is paid. There are other reasons, of course, but objectively those are the root reasons at the end of the day.

Not EMH, package delivery, or refillable mugs. (But I like all those things)

Magical express...the case can be made...is far
More responsible for bookings now than EMH.

That used to mean a rental car...without it, probably a 200-300 dollar average savings for the week. Real convenience and real money back in the pocket.

Clearly the value of EMH varies from person to person. On that last trip I made, it was 19y8m since my last visit. I wanted to soak up every minute I could withstand. So I appreciated them. I loved the morning ones, but those evening ones felt a bit creepy. Even still, I found value in having them. Another adult that hasn't been in a long time (or one that has never been) and goes there w/o kids may wish to stay in the park a bit longer. I can see that.

Yet I know that there are many out there that go every year, twice a year, and so forth and have seen the parks many, many times. I would think that those people would be less inclined to stay the extra hours. And families with younger kids may only want to do mornings (bed time, you know). So I can imagine why evenings were so sparse. And then there are the people that would rather just go back to the room and relax.

------

It looks like my trip this year won't happen, but I'll throw in another reason about staying on property. I was looking at the value resorts this time and even though I could get better prices outside of WDW, the cost of parking each day often offset the difference -- if it didn't put the value resorts ahead. And then since I was planning to fly, the cost of the rental car would absolutely make it more worthwhile to stay at Disney, since I could instead just take the shuttle from the airport and then use Disney transportation and forget about a rental car.

Oh, and you're right about being creatures of habit. My last two trips have been at CBR. I love that place. The atmosphere is just so calming to me. I would love to go back there again. But the prices have gone up too far for me to consider the moderate resorts for a while.

[RescueRanger]

Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic

I love differences of opinion and this conversation is a great one for it...so thanks to everyone.

BUT...I have to disagree.

Most people do not drive.

Many people do...but not most. I did my time in resorts...and it's simple numbers...there are far fewer parking spots than rooms. Which means the assertion that that its even possible to have a "car per room" or even Half that is physically impossible.

You can even expand that...there are 450 hotels in Orlando and almost all are funneling people into WDW...that's hundreds of thousands of rooms.
Disney has 20 or so hotel
Locations with about 30000 rooms...

So considering that off site hotels supply huge numbers each day...and many if not most people drive and park...they must have a ton of parking, right?
Magic kingdom or EPCOT can have 125,000 on a capacity day...so each must have 50,000 spots to hold the cars?

Nope...MK 12,150...EPCOT 11,000...studios 6,500

The point? Your perception of driving is off. Not that many people drive...a good number do...but not a 50% split.
So while magical express may not be half...it's a far greater percentage than you think.

And while EMH is a great perk used by many...I think it's not as big as people give it credit for...nor do I think the discontinuation would tick the dial very much against Disney's business.

The good news is that I think Disney's new business model is what made EMH necessary in the first place.
Namely vacation club. DVC owners were pulled from the repeat resort guest crowd.
And since roughly 2000...the approximately time of large scale DVC expansion (along with some misguided projects in pop century and AKL) Disney has had a relatively hard time staying at full capacity - which they never did in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

So a shift in travel habits - I believe that Disney caused - forced some perks like EMH into being.

I know carribean had a 99.97% occupancy rate from 1988 through jan 2001. That's everyday...365 days a year...2112 rooms.

Now with the online booking and some time wasting/snooping...you can track that things aren't "fully booked" very often anymore. I think they might have picked their own bones a little.

As long as that is the case...I can see them continuing
Limit access benefits for a while.

There is a flaw to your logic. You are assuming that everyone that drives to Disney actually drives their own vehicles to the parks. That is most definitely not so. We always drive to WDW, but our car stays parked at the resort til checkout. Most people on-site use Disney transportation and even a large number of the off-site hotels have shuttles as well. So, there is no way to guage the amount of people with cars just by the amount of parking spaces used.