A bit confused

[ELMC]

Originally Posted by Jobelly

ELMC, unfortunately we would be spending quite a bit as at $11 per point for 2 weeks in may it would be quite costly.
I agree with everyone that it would be ideal to see SS but that wouldn't be until may 2014 and as I said the to stay would be high.
I'm not that much of a risk taker but I've got a good feeling about SS. It looks like and airy and not that dissimilar to BC. We've looked to stay at AK in the past but I didn't like the look of it and sure enough when we went for a meal we weren't keen on it. I like the idea that SS is more relaxed and that being there for two weeks we can walk around more and try different pools. I also think as DS gets older the location to laser quest and the golf course will be good.
I might be totally wrong of course and if we buy and hate it we're a bit stuck but I've put an offer in for a 300 point contract. Not sure we'll get in as I've went in lower after checking the thread about passing ROFR.
I will let you know, and if we get it probably spend the next year praying we love the resort.
Thanks again for all the help. First time on dis other than lurking and it's been really useful and friendly.

I understand what the rental rates are, but I am a bit nervous that you are not taking the time to do the math. You can spend $11 per point to rent the points now, or you can spend $50-60 per point for purchase, plus closing costs, plus maintenance fees of $4.80+ for each of the next 40 years. Like I said before, renting points for one vacation will not be half of your DVC purchase price assuming that you are comparing the purchase of a contract that has points equal to the number that you would be renting. One option will cost you just short of $5,000 (assuming 2 weeks in a 1 BR). The 300 point contract you are bidding on will cost you between $17,000-20,000 this year, plus an additional $1,500+ each year going forward.

Whether or not you would like the resort is a completely different issue.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by Jobelly

ELMC, unfortunately we would be spending quite a bit as at $11 per point for 2 weeks in may it would be quite costly.
I agree with everyone that it would be ideal to see SS but that wouldn't be until may 2014 and as I said the to stay would be high.
I'm not that much of a risk taker but I've got a good feeling about SS. It looks like and airy and not that dissimilar to BC. We've looked to stay at AK in the past but I didn't like the look of it and sure enough when we went for a meal we weren't keen on it. I like the idea that SS is more relaxed and that being there for two weeks we can walk around more and try different pools. I also think as DS gets older the location to laser quest and the golf course will be good.
I might be totally wrong of course and if we buy and hate it we're a bit stuck but I've put an offer in for a 300 point contract. Not sure we'll get in as I've went in lower after checking the thread about passing ROFR.
I will let you know, and if we get it probably spend the next year praying we love the resort.
Thanks again for all the help. First time on dis other than lurking and it's been really useful and friendly.

As long as you truly know (by experience) that you value staying on property and have several stays at Moderate's or above, you should be OK. You mentioned you love BC, I presume you've stayed there and not just visited. Ideally new members will have sufficient Disney and DVC experience over several years with a number of Disney trips AND a comparable off property Timeshare experience to truly know (beyond emotion) that DVC is right for them. IMO it takes all 3 components to make a truly informed decision. Someone who has enough experience in 2 of the 3 areas can likely to OK most of the time.

IMO far too many people make the assumption because they like staying on property that they won't like staying off property. I remember a recent post where someone's experience off property was a condo once and a timeshare stay some 20 years ago, that's simply not enough info to make an informed decision. We also see people who stayed off in a cheaper hotel and really enjoyed Disney and assume that they want to go year after year without sufficient track record to really know. IMO there are a number of very comparable off property timeshares that are, in some ways, better than DVC resorts. No one does theming like Disney and the location can't be beat but many actually prefer to stay off property when they visit Disney.

As for buying now to allow part of your next trip to reduce your overall cost, it's likely not as much difference as you think. By the time you pay dues on 2 years of 300 points you're close to $3500 and you can figure that SSR will be a little cheaper in 2 years, maybe $3 per point, you're actual additional cost for that next trip is only in the range of $1200 extra. Still money that could reduce your overall investment but you could look at it as an insurance policy against not liking your current choices and/or if life happens.

We all wish you well not matter how things work out, hopefully your bid will be accepted and you will love SSR.

[AquaDame]

Originally Posted by Dean

As for buying now to allow part of your next trip to reduce your overall cost, it's likely not as much difference as you think. By the time you pay dues on 2 years of 300 points you're close to $3500 and you can figure that SSR will be a little cheaper in 2 years, maybe $3 per point, you're actual additional cost for that next trip is only in the range of $1200 extra. Still money that could reduce your overall investment but you could look at it as an insurance policy against not liking your current choices and/or if life happens.

Do you feel that this is the proper thinking for all the DVC resorts..? It seems like the price per point that Disney raises year over year is more than $3 per point, isn't it? The price we were offered has already gone up $5 pp since that time (and was three months ago).

I'm also still wondering about direct vs resale. I could honestly seeing us using our 160 points from time to time to do something different - go to a foreign country for a week, or stay at one of the partnered places. Would that benefit outweigh just renting out the points that year and using that money towards a hotel at a different place? Or is that benefit really something that shouldn't matter because it is no good anyway and we'd still want to get a different hotel? What places on property COULDN'T we stay at if we had bought resale? (Pointing me to the right thread for those questions would be helpful too.. I just can't seem to find it!)

Thanks!

[Dean]

Originally Posted by AquaDame

Do you feel that this is the proper thinking for all the DVC resorts..? It seems like the price per point that Disney raises year over year is more than $3 per point, isn't it? The price we were offered has already gone up $5 pp since that time (and was three months ago).

I'm also still wondering about direct vs resale. I could honestly seeing us using our 160 points from time to time to do something different - go to a foreign country for a week, or stay at one of the partnered places. Would that benefit outweigh just renting out the points that year and using that money towards a hotel at a different place? Or is that benefit really something that shouldn't matter because it is no good anyway and we'd still want to get a different hotel? What places on property COULDN'T we stay at if we had bought resale? (Pointing me to the right thread for those questions would be helpful too.. I just can't seem to find it!)

Thanks!

I'm assuming resale since that is the context of this discussion but I think the principles hold for every situation. That is the principle of waiting rather than making a bad choice. There is potentially more cost to waiting but it's better than rushing into something that may not work out and certainly better than being forced to retail to get things done quickly.

As for retail vs resale and the limitations, IMO there are currently no limitations of consequence and the price difference has gotten much larger. The current restrictions are no Concierge Collection, DC, DCL or ABD. You're contractually guaranteed the right to reserve subject to availability at your home resort and for any club resorts. You'll continue to have some exchange options but it could be private and independent's only. IMO that's all you should buy for anyway. There are none of the options that are restricted that are both guaranteed and a good value, actually NONE are guaranteed. While there are a few POTENTIAL exchange options that are a good value, there aren't many and the chances of getting them are extremely small.

Now for those that already own and won't use the points otherwise, you have to decide how to approach it. Renting is a good option for many and some decide to use the points they have anyway for items that may not get a great value. Others simply use the points for their trips and cash for the non DVC options. Their option of course and IMO, it's a much different playing field if you own already vs one looking to buy in. Sometimes what we see is we're discussing this topic in terms of buying in and those that already own and have used points, or are thinking about doing so, tend to get their feelings hurt. Personally I don't care what others do with their points within the rules/options but I do care if they have the info to make informed decisions.

[ELMC]

Originally Posted by AquaDame

Do you feel that this is the proper thinking for all the DVC resorts..? It seems like the price per point that Disney raises year over year is more than $3 per point, isn't it? The price we were offered has already gone up $5 pp since that time (and was three months ago).

I'm also still wondering about direct vs resale. I could honestly seeing us using our 160 points from time to time to do something different - go to a foreign country for a week, or stay at one of the partnered places. Would that benefit outweigh just renting out the points that year and using that money towards a hotel at a different place? Or is that benefit really something that shouldn't matter because it is no good anyway and we'd still want to get a different hotel? What places on property COULDN'T we stay at if we had bought resale? (Pointing me to the right thread for those questions would be helpful too.. I just can't seem to find it!)

Thanks!

One thing to keep in mind is that your ability to trade out through RCI is the same regardless of whether you bought direct or resale. However, if you were planning on using your 160 points to exchange for a week of hotel stays within the Disney Collection, you might want to think again as that 160 points will probably only get you 2-3 nights.

[Jobelly]

Elmc, you're right to say I need to look at the math again, so will do so.

Dean, I am unsure what is meant but SSwill reduce in the next couple of years by $3, do you mean the resale value will go down by $3 so we would get it a little cheaper? I have been reading a long thread about resales maybe being restricted to their home resort only and this does have me concerned. I do think I will love SS and I feel in a lot of ways for our family it is a good resort for us (in some ways more than BC although I really love that resort ) part of the attraction of the DVC is that you can try other resorts and if that was taken away I don't think it is quite so appealing. The thought of even a couple of nights at another resort and then back to SS seems great just so you can experience all they have to offer.
We have stayed at port orleans for a few nights years ago before kids and then we have stayed at vista cay and emerald island, both of which we loved before staying at BC which was amazing. So we do know we enjoy staying off site but staying on site does have many advantages for us.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by Jobelly

Dean, I am unsure what is meant but SSwill reduce in the next couple of years by $3, do you mean the resale value will go down by $3 so we would get it a little cheaper? I have been reading a long thread about resales maybe being restricted to their home resort only and this does have me concerned. I do think I will love SS and I feel in a lot of ways for our family it is a good resort for us (in some ways more than BC although I really love that resort ) part of the attraction of the DVC is that you can try other resorts and if that was taken away I don't think it is quite so appealing. The thought of even a couple of nights at another resort and then back to SS seems great just so you can experience all they have to offer.
We have stayed at port orleans for a few nights years ago before kids and then we have stayed at vista cay and emerald island, both of which we loved before staying at BC which was amazing. So we do know we enjoy staying off site but staying on site does have many advantages for us.

Yes, I'm saying that resales are likely to be a little cheaper in a couple of years, since you'd said you'd put in an offer which sounded to be resale, I didn't spell that out and assumed that's what we were talking about.

Personally I don't see how they can legally restrict ANY club resort to resale owners so I think this is NOT a valid concern. If you read the POS and FL Statue 721, this seems to me to guarantee access to any resort still in the club the same for all. It does not guarantee the access but that's true for ALL owners not just resale buyers. I don't think this is a concern that came from any credible source and is essentially an example of someone postulating it and then it took on a life of it's own.

I believe that home resort at 11 months and club resorts at between 4 & 7 months are guaranteed options. I believe it's unlikely that RCI will go away (or a replacement) sufficiently that it's essentially guaranteed as well. Other than the BVTC option, I don't see much that can be removed that are current options. However, they could institute a VIP program and only count retail points and with that they could make changes that would affect resale buyers more than retail but it would also affect many retail buyers too. Things like extra fees waived for VIP, wait list benefits, etc. They could make it so you can't combine contracts for resale and they could instate a lot of other benefits that left resale buyers out. I see NO reason you should be concerned. However, one should only buy a resort they'll be comfortable staying at mosts trips because of the possibility of availability issues.

[Jobelly]

Thanks for that reassurance Dean. I think SS is a resort that will fit more as my family become older because of the golf course and the closeness of DTD and it does sadden me that I may not get BCV for two weeks at the end of August but we may be able to get a few days before going onto SS. Of course although I hate to think about the kids getting older and not coming on holiday with us we will be able to go at less popular times then and need smaller accommodations and so may have more flexibility with other resorts.

[disneynutz]

Originally Posted by Jobelly

Thanks for that reassurance Dean. I think SS is a resort that will fit more as my family become older because of the golf course and the closeness of DTD and it does sadden me that I may not get BCV for two weeks at the end of August but we may be able to get a few days before going onto SS. Of course although I hate to think about the kids getting older and not coming on holiday with us we will be able to go at less popular times then and need smaller accommodations and so may have more flexibility with other resorts.

We are an older family and we prefer the Epcot resorts, BWV and BCV. We own both with Epcot being our favorite park.

SSR is a nice resort but we don't want to live there. DTD is nice for shopping/looking through the stores and maybe a meal but not a destination more than once or twice per vacation.

Bill

[Dean]

Originally Posted by Jobelly

Thanks for that reassurance Dean. I think SS is a resort that will fit more as my family become older because of the golf course and the closeness of DTD and it does sadden me that I may not get BCV for two weeks at the end of August but we may be able to get a few days before going onto SS. Of course although I hate to think about the kids getting older and not coming on holiday with us we will be able to go at less popular times then and need smaller accommodations and so may have more flexibility with other resorts.

One big advantage of having something in hand is you can wait list for BCV just in case even up until the last minute. Just don't WL the entire 2 weeks at one time as your chances of success will be dramatically reduced.

[ELMC]

Originally Posted by Jobelly

Elmc, you're right to say I need to look at the math again, so will do so.

I think that's a good idea. In the end, you may come to the same conclusion, which is absolutely fine because it's your decision to make. But it will be a more informed decision, which is what we're trying to help people do here by offering our opinions in the first place.

Originally Posted by Jobelly

Thanks for that reassurance Dean. I think SS is a resort that will fit more as my family become older because of the golf course and the closeness of DTD and it does sadden me that I may not get BCV for two weeks at the end of August but we may be able to get a few days before going onto SS. Of course although I hate to think about the kids getting older and not coming on holiday with us we will be able to go at less popular times then and need smaller accommodations and so may have more flexibility with other resorts.

One option would be to rent out your SSR points and use that money to rent BCV points from a broker or owner here on the DIS to make that reservation for you. It might cost a little more ($1-2 per point), but it would be able to guarantee the reservation you wanted.

That being said, this is an end around fix, and if you truly want to be able to guarantee a BCV stay, you will need to own there and book at the 11 month window.

It sounds to me that your heart wants you to buy at BCV but your wallet is trying to convince you that SSR will work just as well. I think you need to be honest with yourself about what your priorities are. If it's money over satisfaction, then you'll probably end up at SSR. If it's the other way around, you'll probably end up buying BCV. The more you talk about it though, the more it sounds like you really need to stay at SSR once before you can make this decision. You are going to be spending hundreds of thousand of dollars on Disney vacations over the course of your ownership. It doesn't make sense to not get full enjoyment out of it because you wanted to save a few thousand dollars on the initial purchase price. Good luck with your decision, it seems like you still have a lot to think about.

[Jobelly]

I have wondered myself if I'm trying to convince myself that SS will work but I genuinely do love the resort. I love the fact it looks more spread out and more areas to walk. Generally I feel it looks more relaxed which when you're going for 2 weeks really isn't a bad thing. Of course I am well aware of the fact I am basing my feelings on photos and opinions alone and not my own experience.

[DougEMG]

You could always buy half the points at SSR and the other half at BCV. We initially bought at SSR because of the low price, but then added on at BWV because I wanted the location and the ability to book the standard view rooms at 11 months. This down side is that you end up with two closing costs.

[DizBub]

Originally Posted by Jobelly

I have wondered myself if I'm trying to convince myself that SS will work but I genuinely do love the resort. I love the fact it looks more spread out and more areas to walk. Generally I feel it looks more relaxed which when you're going for 2 weeks really isn't a bad thing. Of course I am well aware of the fact I am basing my feelings on photos and opinions alone and not my own experience.

Good luck with your contract. We thought we would never want to stay at SSR because it was so large and quite frankly it gets a little bit of a bad rap on the boards. Boy, were we wrong. We stayed there last year because it was the ONLY DVC with any availability and we fell in love with it. We have a new appreciation for DTD now because when we stay there we don't have to take a bus or try to park there, we just walk over.

We own at BLT and BCV (bought BCV resale last summer). Last year I was on the waitlist for BVC for almost 7 full months and it never came through. The year before that I got that 2br at BCV right at 7 months.
For this year I reserved BCV 2br at 11 months for late September and at my 7 month window we moved to BWV. At 7 months (last Thursday) BCV was WIDE open for the 2br and I gave mine up too. So you can see that it's a bit of a crap shoot and almost anything is possible in any given year.

Just trying to reassure you that you really can't go wrong with a SSR contract. You can try to change at 7 months and will have a decent chance of getting it. If not, I'm certain you will love SSR.

[disneynutz]

Originally Posted by Jobelly

I have wondered myself if I'm trying to convince myself that SS will work but I genuinely do love the resort. I love the fact it looks more spread out and more areas to walk. Generally I feel it looks more relaxed which when you're going for 2 weeks really isn't a bad thing. Of course I am well aware of the fact I am basing my feelings on photos and opinions alone and not my own experience.

SSR is spread out but you are walking around the resort rooms for the most part. DTD and the Carriage house are nice and the water features at SSR are also nice. SSR has condo style rooms with the exterior hallways.

At BWV you have the BWV resort, the boardwalk stores and restaurants, the YC, BC, BCV, Epcot, DHS, and the Swan & Dolphin. BWV/BCV have interior halls like a hotel.

IMO you get more bang for you buck at BWV/BCV.

Bill