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Old 02-18-2013, 08:41 AM   #46
Rileygirl
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Interesting comments.

Regarding the 'seasonable' issue regarding fastpasses. I think there is the built in possibility of doing this, but I am not sure they are going to do it. - not officially. Better for them to offer tons of suprise and amaze fp+s while the program starts rolling, and in slow season, to get the bell curve guest loving it, and then when it gets established, I think the 'extra' will be sold off for promotion - a resort perk perhaps, or an ap perk. or DVC. The extras are maybe earmarked for promotion and sales.

Regarding the need for FP+ in September: I think Disney's goal is to eventually need them for september, and january, and they are working on this right now. Off season is becoming non-existent. If standby lines become brutal because of FP+, they are quickly going to become a sought after commodity. I think you will need them.

And this really concerns me. I have been thinking about this: and its tied into the 'level' playing field idea in the new thread that just showed up in this forum. Here is the thing I am secretely hating about the new system. We are all concerned about the big E attractions, and the impact on them. But, no one is really talking about the impact on all the other attractions that are going online to be fastpassed. Think about it. You get three attractions or shows that are guarenteed to be not really long waits, and everything else you have to do standby. HMMMMM.

But somebody, infact alot of somebodies have chosen THAT RIDE as their fastpass attraction. If they are allowing 60% on every hour of the OHRC, and Disney is directing guests to these rides at this time, there will be NO SLOW times for these attractions really. You know how you like to pop over and do some of those great b attractions mid morning, waiting for your fp to mature, while the masses are standing in line for the mountains? Monsters inc, jungle cruise (yes, I like it) or Haunted mansion which was always such a pleasure to fit in mid morning with no wait, perhaps several times. Ah, would you wait an hour for said attraction? Maybe 90 minutes? Not me. Never more then 20 minutes or we skip it.

Think about this - think about how it can really take away from the amount of attractions you can visit in a day, because you knew where to be when. Level playing field baby. Go look at the MK fastpass list- a lot of my fav attractions that were easy to visit at certain times a day are now going to be either a 'no go' because of an hour wait, or a pain in the butt to fit in, without losing your FP+ space. Out of every negative thing that has been said about this new system - this is the one that is really going to hit home for me, personally. Cause our family loves the classic b's. We would rather do them then multiples on the mountains. So, not only is this going to make the best rides VERY HARD to see without a FP+, (and you only get to pick one mountain folks) but its going to make doing all that other fun stuff attractions so much harder. No matter what time of year, I could almost always get the kids on one ride at each mountain (except, alas christmas) in a single day, but this will be impossible now. And the number of other fun things to do in the park have just gotten 100 times harder to fit in. This is my projection of big time negative impact, whether or not its true I am not sure. Also, time of year will really play into this, but we tend to visit spring break, summer, or the major holidays. Looking bugly for us.

I know that Barry and I have found some numbers that make 60% look like the fp+ OHRC number. But I have to say, I am not sure that is what it has been in the past. Question:, gut feeling, Standing in the FP line, would you say that was your experience? If we are only waiting 10 minutes no matter what time in the hour we showed up, or 15, I just dont think that number computes. And our experience in the standby line, I dont feel that only 40% of us were let on in an hour, but this is harder to judge because we only did very short standby lines in the past. However, if they do 60% with the fp+, standby lines are going to be so dreadful, this will be the best stick in the world for D to sell the commodity of FP+, even in the slow season! Its going to be very valuable. If they go to 80%, then really, its the death of the standby line. Think about that.
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:02 AM   #47
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Regarding the coolness factor of the interactive experience. I think it could be kickass cool. My mind is doing flips on the potential of the things they could do, - if they can get their act together regarding the delivery of the tech aspect. Honestly Barry, I think it has some amazing potential, and not just what has been previously discussed. The applications are amazing and endless, and can be catered to personal preferences, individualized experiences.

Here we go: I am going to get some big sized tomatos thrown at me for this one - but this techno ability, matched with James Cameron's brilliance and his refusal to accept second rate, or compromises, well, honestly I get giddy thinking about it. If Disney will step up to the plate and put out - that potentially hated land in AK is going to make your head spin. James is an expensive tart, and he will not back down I dont think- So either its going to blow up and not go at all, or be the most talked about new addition to any theme park, anywhere in the world. Cutting Edge, nothing spared. Mr Cameron will not allow anything associated with his name to be mediocre or a sell out. (I am actually quite suprised Disney got into bed with him knowing this. You only have to know how long it took, and how hard it was to sell and produce Avatar to get an idea of his ideals, perseverance, and determination. I don't know how long it took him to write it, that probably was the simplist part for him) Don't care that many people say there is no loyal readership following - I dont think its going to be about a particular story at all- Its about Earth conservation. James bucked hollywood selling this idea - they said it will never be marketable - they were WRONG! And this IDEA is not going away anytime soon - in fact, will become MORE MARKETABLE every day and EVERY GENERATION! Right, I feel like i just said I take my port orleans refillable mug to the poly pool for a free refill, but keep my family of seven in one room at pop. I dont mean to make this a hated avatar thread- I just wanted to get you thinking how this magic band could really take a guest on a totally immersive experience, where a whole LAND is the ride. I can so see this. I can.

Edited to add: I had always wondered about people who claimed that Avatar was such a bad fit for AK. AK is all about conservation, right? How is imaginary dragons and beasts better then conservation? I never got that. Yes, blue people are imaginary, but they have a purpose in telling the story of earth conservation. Dragons are just, well, dragons, and ahem, not real either. Plus, Avatar has these flying mythical beasts, as well as some great horticulture :>)
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:08 AM   #48
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I'm just a layman fan and I think there are many "goals" that Disney have from this technology, but a big one for Disney is the ability to "control" the way guests visit the parks which will ultimately streamline staffing and transportation too.

I've been thinking about this quite a bit because on the surface, MyMagic+ appears to be a good thing for us and the way we vacation at WDW. Obviously, it won't suit everyone but I think this technology gives Disney the ability to redirect guests to suit themselves while making it appear that it's a great thing for the guest.

I can see them using FP surplus and even possibly a few freebies to redirect guests. Everyone loves a FP for an attraction or a free Mickey bar, right? These bands are going to pick up where people are and where they're heading (to some degree) so if they have a 90 min standby on Space Mountain, and you're heading in that direction, it could trigger a FP for another attraction or a free ice cream from an outlet in a different direction, thus redirecting the guest away from Space Mountain.

The same applies to which park people go to on any given day. Disney have the same figures as the touring plans sites do. They know the trends and which parks get busy on what days of the week etc. So, how about Disney offer an incentive to send people to a different park. If they know the first Saturday in April is a big day at MK, why have 2 extra FP+ selections if the guest goes to AK or DHS that day? This spreads the visitors out of all 4 parks and controls where the guests go.

I confess to not knowing enough about the technology to be sure of my ideas, but it seems to me this whole thing is billed as being about "guest experience" but is actually about Disney logistics. Will it improve guest experience? I guess that depends what type of guest you are and what will put a smile on your face, but for me this is actually about controlling the guest experience.

In terms of opting out, I'm sure for now, it will be an opt in or opt out system, but over time, it will become the ONLY way to get the headliners done. I favour this over the Universal option of charging you twice, but still I think it will become a necessity rather than optional. It will have a knock on effect in terms of filling the slower periods (because people will want to avoid the chaos) but it's not always possible for some people to change to different times of year and you will always have the people who want to be their for Christmas, Easter, Spring Break etc.

On the face of it, I think it will suit us for the way we do things but I do think MyMagic+ is not what it says on the tin.

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Old 02-18-2013, 09:27 AM   #49
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I agree MrRomance. Completely. The most magic is MOSTLY for the mouse. Another big winner is going to be the average disney goer, who often only sees a few attractions a day, stands in long lines, and is a frustrated consumer. Under this system, they are going to have a better time. The knowledgable user is MAYBE going to have a much harder time of it, and perhaps lessen the experience for us substantially. The interactive aspect could be a big winner for everyone though.

I have no doubts that the 'opt out' option wont really be an option in a couple of years. You either do it, or dont go.

Its a mistake to think the mouse does anything that does not help the corportation, and this idea could be a really big winner for them.

At least, this is what I think, now, we have to wait and see how it actually pans out. I will enjoy watching the forums when it comes on line to see how the reality matches the projections. One will also have to note that what 'we' feel is maybe not going to be the average disney goers experience.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:26 AM   #50
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If Disney announces plans to give Epcot a huge face lift, bring in more to Pixarland at DHS, and follows through with Avatar at DAK, then all this talk of MyMagic+ becomes unnecessary. It will simply be a cost cutting measure (like MrRomance explained) being put in place to prepare for the onslaught of expansion that everyone is craving. It would a cool level of surprises throughout the park that everyone can shake their heads at and say "Wow, Disney sure knows how to put on a good show."

But, the way they spun the release of MyMagic+ was with words like, "we are trying to get more out of our infrastructure", one story said they couldn't afford to get into a theme park arms race by keep building new thrill rides, and instead of adding new attractions they were going to try and get 20% more out their guests. All by making something everyone was used to using (FP) the new commodity to feed the MyMagic+.

I agree Rileygirl - this could have a huge impact on the b-rides and will definitely change all of our touring plans. But most problems would just go away with a major expansion in each park. But now that the 1.5 Billion has been spent on magicbands, we will have to wait until what 2017? 2018? for another land?

I liked your ideas about Avatarland. And I also don't want to get into the hating and loving thing. But from a capacity standpoint - Animal Kingdom needs another true E-ticket experience to balance out the demand for FP+.
Based on the leaked blueprints (I know speculative) the Soarin type motion ride through Pandora and an inside outside dark water ride could be awesome!
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:07 PM   #51
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Right you are. Money has already been spent, big time. Magic Plus really boils down to more money squeezed out of the stagnant number of people already going to WDW. Less money for the big ticket improvements.

There is quite a bit of rumblings regarding pixar land at DHS. Nothing really regarding AK. I think Mr C is going to hold out until it can be done properly, or not done at all, leaving AK in a bit of a bind, and probably the park that most needs that E attraction and draw. DHS would be ok with fp+ as it stands now, so why spend the money here on E attractions and land? Because it is relatively simple? The winning formula has already been invented at Disneyland, so a lot of cost with 'imagineering' and testing has already been done? Just thinking out loud here.

And if money is spent here, then its going to delay AK. Bummer. I like this park, and I like the potential in the new land. But Mr Cameron will be ornery regarding budget limits I bet. Remember when they first built AK, and Everest was scraped for the park opening, because it could not be built as the amazing Imagineer who envisioned it due to cost cuts. (who was that guy, cant remember, just remember his passion about the vision, and his refusal to sell out. ) So they waited. And, I think this attraction was worth the wait.

Disney has been avoiding the EPCOT overhaul since Eisner days - they created an entire new park instead of the overhaul! Its a job nobody wants to undertake I think. A little lemony. Are there any rumours regarding a major overhaul? Not much money in the industry out there to overhaul successfully the exhisting attractions if you go by the comments regarding test track. Sounds a little like the 2012 version of the desecration of Figment.

All interesting to think about, for sure. I am an optimist by nature, and hope that things will work out for us. Certainly we can figure out the system when it gets into place. Will it be better for us? I am starting to feel somewhat pessimistic. I am very concerned about standby lines now. Bleck.

Final random thought on strategy regarding using this new system. With the old system, there was a 40 minute lag before FP starts - ie park opens at 9, first fp available was 9:40. IF (and only IF) this is still the case, then if you want to ride more then one headliner, rope drop is going to end up critical. The first hour of the park you are going to have to maximize riding standby for your favorites, and book your fp+ (or use the old fp system while it is still and place) AFTER you try and ride via standby in that first hour. Thats what Im thinking, anyways.

Edited to add: I am not sure if all the problems would go away by major expansions in three of the parks. There would still be bottleneck issues, and general disney goer frustrations with the system. It would solve all of OUR problems, the avid disney goer. We would love it! Not the mouses issues though. JMHO
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:34 PM   #52
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As far as MyMagic+ goes, I think the idea is to make the guests think they're getting a better experience while streamlining the business end. The other issue is, it doesn't pay Disney to have people standing in line (when they could be spending money somewhere!) so I don't think they will allow this new FP+ system to create longer lines and huge standby problems. It just wouldn't make economical sense for them.

As far as upgrades and revamps are concerned, I think Disney definitely got their fingers burned with the WWoHP and if they lose Avatar and potentially the LOTR deal which is supposedly burning with Universal at the moment, they'll really have their hands forced into making some massive changes. Personally, I think they are planning a massive change at DHS, it's been a little tired for a while and with the acquisition of Lucas Film, I can see Disney putting a Star Wars section in.

I think we'll see Avatar go ahead at AK and potentially a "Pixar Park" rather than Carsland at DHS. The big thorn in their side is Epcot, they don't want to touch it and they rely HEAVILY on F & W.
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:57 PM   #53
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I really agree with what you are saying MrRomance. But, I do want to clarify one thing that perhaps I was not conveying. (and it will make me look like a selfish git in the process - but for the sake of arguement, here goes).

Long lines are relative. For me, anymore then 30 minutes in anyline, is well, yucky. I prefere to avoid that, and by early afternoon I am usually out by the resort pool flaked out, after touring usually successfully all morning. Not always, but mostly. I will have done several attractions with the kids, with hopefully more then one major headliner.

I am being selfish here, by whining about long lines. I mean if I have to wait more then 10 minutes at Hm, or buzz, or Mickey's Philharmagic. Right now, I can tour like that because I have learned how to, and it works most of the time, except perhaps at christmas, when it is less about attractions and more about atmosphere. And based on the last 10 years, I have been able to do this, with perhaps each year getting just a little harder to do. So, I have the unreasonable expectation to be able to do a lot at each of the theme parks in about 4 or 5 hrs, by staying ahead of the crowds, and a good management of fast passes. But, sob, sob, my hay days may be coming to an end.(I think)

Disney does want people to spend less time in lines, and the new FP+ should be able to do that when fully implemented. The gross majority who have previously regularily wait 2 hours for space, and hour for pirates, ect ect, will be freed up tremendously. But, unless I am mistaken - and hey, I could be way off base here - poor selfish little me is going to end up spending MORE time in line. And, some of the less popular attractions that now have FPs are getting some cool interactive lines right now, so I think disney is thinking that some attractions wait times are going to increase substantially. As long as the net result is OVERALL less time in line for the general population, and more importantly, no 3 hr nightmare lines where guests are trapped, then this will be successful. So if a guest does 1 attraction, and waits 50 minutes standby for it, and is 'released' out into the park so they can buy food, drink, or souvies from the store it dumps out into, well then, that is successful for them. If I waited 50 minutes for HM, well then, I would not be happy. Under the new system for me, I suspect I will end up waiting that long.

This is all, of course, speculation on my part. But when I spoke of long lines, I meant for selfish little me. Not the average goer. It sounds terrible I know.

I shall now slink off and try not to post anymore today.
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Old 02-18-2013, 02:10 PM   #54
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I completely understand where you're coming from and it's not selfish, it's how you do things and all of us do things our own way. I don't mind lines up to about 20 minutes, but I too am out of Park 1 by noon.

I see it working pretty well for us, because we can go to Park 1 for EMH as we usually do, get the top tier rides done early, do a few of the 2nd tier rides done and leave, then go to Park 2 where we have our FP+. Being from the UK, we are there for 2 weeks so we don't really care about getting everything done in a day.

MyMagic+ is going to be a game changer for some and a boon for others. It won't suit everyone but I think we'll all figure out how to make it work best for us just like we do with every other change. It will be interesting to see how things play out but I do have a little bit of an objection to it being "sold" to guests as a benefit to them, when it is more of a logistical and financial tool for the mouse.

I'm looking forward to my trip in October to see how it affects things!
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:14 PM   #55
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I agree with what you are saying MrRomance. We will be doing EMH every morning and probably be out of the park by 1. If we go the FP+ route I think we will probably implement the 3 FPs at the second park technique.

The reality is that I'm the 5th wheel of our group, so i will end up doing whatever my brother wants to do with his family. I just want to get the best info to help him make the best decision and its a little frustrations not knowing that for now. In the long run I think there is a good chance the new system will be better, the problem is when we go in June there is a good chance it won't be.

I posted this on another thread a week ago:

Basically, I see the traditional FP system merging into FP+. If they keep the 3 in advance options, all the remaining tickets would remain in the FP+ system, but get treated like the current "traditional system" works. Once you are in the park you can use the app/ kiosk to select an additional FP and as the day goes on it is treated like the traditional system where you can pick one every two hours or when your next FP window opens. The advantage with this system is that you don't need to be at a FP station to grab a ticket, you can actually be on the other side of park in line and select a FP for any attraction in the park. Of course the app will show all the return window times for FP's, which can come in handy. I think this would be much better than keep FP+ and current FP separate, because all the ticket would be pooled together. Of course they could keep x amount out of that pool to use as special offers, or try to direct people around the park.

I have no idea if that is what will end up happening, but I like the idea of it.

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Old 02-18-2013, 09:23 PM   #56
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I'm freaked about FP+, because this is NOT the way I like to tour a theme park. I already find fast pass a major imposition because it creates longer lines for people who can't run all over the park. I can't run a family from Frontierland, to Tomorrowland, to Fantasyland, to Adventureland... See? Frankly, running everywhere for a FP+ time, plus having attractions I COULDN'T select having monster lines, AND having to plan all this two months out sound like a disaster of epic proportions for me. Can someone please allay or confirm my fears? Because frankly I haven't heard one thing about FP+ I like!
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:36 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andeesings View Post
I'm freaked about FP+, because this is NOT the way I like to tour a theme park. I already find fast pass a major imposition because it creates longer lines for people who can't run all over the park. I can't run a family from Frontierland, to Tomorrowland, to Fantasyland, to Adventureland... See? Frankly, running everywhere for a FP+ time, plus having attractions I COULDN'T select having monster lines, AND having to plan all this two months out sound like a disaster of epic proportions for me. Can someone please allay or confirm my fears? Because frankly I haven't heard one thing about FP+ I like!
It's more about the interactive experience with the magicband that Rileygirl so eloquently described. Parts of that sound cool don't you think? As for as the actual FP+, it might work to your advantage. You won't have to run all over to get your passes, you can grab them with your phone before you leave for the park and change them later if you need to.

Other than that, the new FP+ will hamper experienced visitors, too many limitations.
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:47 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andeesings
I'm freaked about FP+, because this is NOT the way I like to tour a theme park. I already find fast pass a major imposition because it creates longer lines for people who can't run all over the park. I can't run a family from Frontierland, to Tomorrowland, to Fantasyland, to Adventureland... See? Frankly, running everywhere for a FP+ time, plus having attractions I COULDN'T select having monster lines, AND having to plan all this two months out sound like a disaster of epic proportions for me. Can someone please allay or confirm my fears? Because frankly I haven't heard one thing about FP+ I like!
Another potential advantage to FP+ is the possibility you won't have to run around looking to pickup fast-passes. If you are allowed to pick up additional FP's (beyond the 3) while at the park, which sounds like you will be able to some extent, you could pick them directly from he app or kiosk. Again we don't know how everything will work, but the possibility of being in line, pull up the app, see what rides fp's are available and then choose.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:04 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andeesings View Post
I'm freaked about FP+, because this is NOT the way I like to tour a theme park. I already find fast pass a major imposition because it creates longer lines for people who can't run all over the park. I can't run a family from Frontierland, to Tomorrowland, to Fantasyland, to Adventureland... See? Frankly, running everywhere for a FP+ time, plus having attractions I COULDN'T select having monster lines, AND having to plan all this two months out sound like a disaster of epic proportions for me. Can someone please allay or confirm my fears? Because frankly I haven't heard one thing about FP+ I like!
From what we know, FP+ is designed more for guests like yourself, who don't want to run all over hell and creation all day. It will essentially remove that from your day because you can select attractions when YOU want to do them, not whatever the FP return time is.

I think standby having monster lines is (at least for the moment) uncertain, so my advice would be don't worry about that until it's rolled out and we KNOW that to be the case.

I also think we all suffer from information overload and don't always realise that the vast majority of people on the street wouldn't even know what FP+ or MyMagic+ is. We have to keep in mind that not everyone who goes to WDW reads forums or gathers a wealth of information before they go. I know the first few times that my family went, we didn't have a clue, we just turned up on day 1 and walked around doing what we could when we could. I honestly believe when we read so much about these things, we get skewed idea about what the world knows and what will happen at WDW.

We really need to let this thing roll out and see how it rolls. From there I think we can get a better idea on how to make it work better for ourselves.
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:52 AM   #60
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I tend to paint things with a big wide brush when posting I think, as the descriptive element to get a point across. This will be amazing, and this will be terrible are such extremes, and really, I dont think it will turn out like that.

(After reading my selfish lines post, I think people could picture me lying flat on my back in the middle of fantasyland, sobbing uncontrolably, while Mickey gazed down at me in concern. )

I do have every confidence that we can make the new system work for us, that we will figure it out. Will we be ahead compared to the old system ?(we being those that knew how to maximize touring for taking in fav attractions) Even my optimistic self thinks no. This will make things harder.

Will this make things much better for the general disney goer? I think, YES YES YES. (again, with the extremes, cant help myself).

And, just stirring the pot here:

Ok, regarding EMH touring strategies - this is just food for thought. EMH WAS the way Disney tried to do some crowd control, and a promotional selling point. Dont you think the Magic Plus system will do this very thing, but so much BETTER for Disney? And wont EMH actually work against the purpose of Magic Plus? (Ie: putting all resort guests into one park in either the morning or evening, rather then spreading them out?) And, dont you think that there was a lot of frustration regarding EMH for the AVERAGE park goer, and dissatisfaction (this comment is based purely on what I observed at the parks, and comments from people who came back from disney that did not know how to tour). My hypothosis: EMH is on the way out. And with that gone, it really levels the playing field.

Right, that thought could be totally wrong, but its just something that I was thinking about. I think there are some holes in my argument. Help me shoot it down!
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