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Old 02-10-2013, 02:19 PM   #121
brymolmom
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Originally Posted by cmwade77 View Post
Everybody "knows" it happens, but how do they know?

.
I know of 2 different family members who have abused it. One does it very frequently. Both have a child with a disability but not one that requires any special accomodations for rides or lines - they just don't want to wait in the lines. I have had numerous conversations and know the children in question well, so I am aware of their abilities. Both kids have a tough time waiting their turn...but no more so than any other 3 - 6 year old. ALL kids have a hard time waiting their turn.

One of my family members tries to encourage me to get one. DS10 has mild Asperger's. It would never occur to me to get a GAC. I look at time in WDW as a great oppotunity to teach him about waiting your turn...waiting in lines. He gets it now and knows it - but even when he was 3 and 4 - this was my goal. Her main comment always is 'If your child has an IEP, then you can get a GAC'.

I think they are a great tool for those who need them. Who honestly couldn't wait in lines and wouldn't be able to experience WDW. But I do think something needs to be done. I personally think the appointment to come back in 20 minutes or an hour is a great idea. Would cut down on abuse and give equal accomodation to those who need to wait elsewhere. I totally get a child being turned away might struggle - but if you tour a bit differently - send one parent up to get that while the child in question doing something else with other parent....Well it would be different but in many cases doable.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:37 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by brymolmom View Post
I know of 2 different family members who have abused it. One does it very frequently. Both have a child with a disability but not one that requires any special accomodations for rides or lines - they just don't want to wait in the lines. I have had numerous conversations and know the children in question well, so I am aware of their abilities. Both kids have a tough time waiting their turn...but no more so than any other 3 - 6 year old. ALL kids have a hard time waiting their turn.

One of my family members tries to encourage me to get one. DS10 has mild Asperger's. It would never occur to me to get a GAC. I look at time in WDW as a great oppotunity to teach him about waiting your turn...waiting in lines. He gets it now and knows it - but even when he was 3 and 4 - this was my goal. Her main comment always is 'If your child has an IEP, then you can get a GAC'.

I think they are a great tool for those who need them. Who honestly couldn't wait in lines and wouldn't be able to experience WDW. But I do think something needs to be done. I personally think the appointment to come back in 20 minutes or an hour is a great idea. Would cut down on abuse and give equal accomodation to those who need to wait elsewhere. I totally get a child being turned away might struggle - but if you tour a bit differently - send one parent up to get that while the child in question doing something else with other parent....Well it would be different but in many cases doable.
Right now Disney policy states that the person who owns the GAC must be the one to request "return passes" as we call them. If it is a child, a parent can do the talking, but the person with the need must be THERE. Cuts down on abuse a number of different ways.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:24 PM   #123
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I would like to first comment on the facts of the blog and the truthfulness of it, or the lack there of. I was at DL the first month or so that cars land open and I had a GAC card, so I think I can answer to the lack of knowledge this blogger has. First lets start by saying the blogger never mentioned why RSR was so packed early in the day, not just did it have to do with it was a new ride, it also had to do with the fact that Disney allowed annual pass holders into the park one hour earlier several days a week, and also hotel guess where allowed into the park one hour earlier. In DCA history this has never happened before cars land opened. So yes if you went first thing in the morning you had a two hour wait right from the start and that never seemed to let up. So the first thing this blogger should have done before making statements was to figure out what impact annual pass holders and hotel guest had on the lines at the time, also the percentage of annual pass holders with a GAC need would have been helpful.

Second the blogger should have followed a few people with GAC cards to see if they where actually equivalent to a fast pass. We all know how a fast pass works, for normal people and for people who are in w/c but there are some disabilities that no matter what you never are equal to a fast pass, and I have one such disability, but lets talk the normal GAC person first.

Okay fast pass person without GAC gets a fast pass returns at that time and goes thru a fast pass lane, and gets on ride. For the sake of needing a number we will say it takes one hour from fast pass to ride.

The GAC w/c person, does not just go and get a fastpass, they must go to the ride and then at RSR was sent back around to another location to stand in line to get a hand written fastpass for their party and all party members must be there, this took anywhere from 10 to 20 minutes, for a pass that was an hour out, so in reality you waited 1 hour and 20 minutes, longer than the original fastpass person. Next you come back and go up the fastpass lane, but you don't get to follow the other people and get on your ride, no, you are split off to another line right before you get to the ride. This line unlike the fast pass line is a good 20 minutes long. You must wait until a car is pulled off the track and loaded and put back on the track so there is a build up of at least three to four cars of people before you and they only allow 2 w/c cars on the track at anytime, so while the regular fastpass people are on the ride enjoying it, you are in line waiting yet another 20 minutes. So in reality the person with a GAC card took 1 hour and 40 minutes to ride RSR when the person without a GAC took only 1 hour.

They send all GAC card holders over to the other line not just w/c persons, so even if you GAC is for autism you still go over to the other line and wait the extra time.

But then you have the me's in the world and my group gets sent over to the other line and there is 5 of us, but we can not all go together, no there is no magical moments for our family no matter what we have to split our group and go one at a time. So the first group has waited the 1 hour and 40 minutes and finally half of our group goes on, while I sit back with my guide dog and my ex's service animal and another person in our group, 10 minutes later or so the car comes back and they get out and it is our turn, but the cast members make us all get back in the line and wait again for 20 minutes so that the other groups who where waiting get to go, and then we get back up there again and me and my ex get to go while our DD's get to hold the dogs, for us that fastpass that everyone is dying to get there hands on just took us 2 hours and 10 minutes, more than twice what it would have taken if we did not have the GAC cards.

My complaint is why can a GAC person like me get a regular fastpass and be allowed to go up the regular fast pass line, so I am not discriminated against. Why can't I be allowed to ride with all my family and not have to split up my group, Disney lost a law suit a year ago for not accommodating service dogs, yet still I have to separate from my group not just once but twice to ride the ride.

Those who are ignorant and think a GAC is a fastpass have not really used one, and those who think that and have not been to DL in lines like POTC and SM are just ignorant because these lines are a lot longer with a GAC card even when the regular line is walk on.

The blogger needs to study facts before he writes an inflammatory remark, the fact that annual passholders got in before opening most mornings caused RSR to be overloaded from the start with and without GAC cards, the fact that hotel guest got in added to the problem. The fact that all GAC card holders had to go and get a fastpass added to the GAC problem, the fact that Disney set it up that all GAC card holders went to a separate boarding caused a backup and the fact that the backup actually caused the GAC card holders to wait, longer than fastpass persons and walk on persons, making it an unfair wait for them, not a front of the line pass at all but a longer wait than anyone else.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:38 PM   #124
cmwade77
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Originally Posted by brymolmom View Post
I know of 2 different family members who have abused it. One does it very frequently. Both have a child with a disability but not one that requires any special accomodations for rides or lines - they just don't want to wait in the lines. I have had numerous conversations and know the children in question well, so I am aware of their abilities. Both kids have a tough time waiting their turn...but no more so than any other 3 - 6 year old. ALL kids have a hard time waiting their turn.

One of my family members tries to encourage me to get one. DS10 has mild Asperger's. It would never occur to me to get a GAC. I look at time in WDW as a great oppotunity to teach him about waiting your turn...waiting in lines. He gets it now and knows it - but even when he was 3 and 4 - this was my goal. Her main comment always is 'If your child has an IEP, then you can get a GAC'.

I think they are a great tool for those who need them. Who honestly couldn't wait in lines and wouldn't be able to experience WDW. But I do think something needs to be done. I personally think the appointment to come back in 20 minutes or an hour is a great idea. Would cut down on abuse and give equal accomodation to those who need to wait elsewhere. I totally get a child being turned away might struggle - but if you tour a bit differently - send one parent up to get that while the child in question doing something else with other parent....Well it would be different but in many cases doable.
Return time passes can cause a number of issues, not to mention end up costing quite a bit of money to print in the long run. The biggest issue that it causes is as the PP pointed out, you quite often end up having to wait longer than everyone else.

The better solution is to use RFID chips and scan the GAC, then have the person wait the length of the standby line before being able to use the card again.

This keeps it fair, reduces abuse and provide the accommodations needed for everyone. You end up with a better chance of having the same wait tie as ev everyone else, Disney could even factor in the extra wait time into reducing other wait times.

Also, the person named on the card must be present when going up to the attraction and that is at it should be. I would even go so far as to say that they should have pictures printed on the GACs.

The one type of abuse I know I have seen A LOT of is people saying, "Here, use my GAC" when they can't or won't ride a particular attraction.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:49 PM   #125
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I would like to first comment on the facts of the blog and the truthfulness of it, or the lack there of. I was at DL the first month or so that cars land open and I had a GAC card, so I think I can answer to the lack of knowledge this blogger has. First lets start by saying the blogger never mentioned why RSR was so packed early in the day, not just did it have to do with it was a new ride, it also had to do with the fact that Disney allowed annual pass holders into the park one hour earlier several days a week, and also hotel guess where allowed into the park one hour earlier. In DCA history this has never happened before cars land opened. So yes if you went first thing in the morning you had a two hour wait right from the start and that never seemed to let up. So the first thing this blogger should have done before making statements was to figure out what impact annual pass holders and hotel guest had on the lines at the time, also the percentage of annual pass holders with a GAC need would have been helpful.

Second the blogger should have followed a few people with GAC cards to see if they where actually equivalent to a fast pass. We all know how a fast pass works, for normal people and for people who are in w/c but there are some disabilities that no matter what you never are equal to a fast pass, and I have one such disability, but lets talk the normal GAC person first.

Okay fast pass person without GAC gets a fast pass returns at that time and goes thru a fast pass lane, and gets on ride. For the sake of needing a number we will say it takes one hour from fast pass to ride.

The GAC w/c person, does not just go and get a fastpass, they must go to the ride and then at RSR was sent back around to another location to stand in line to get a hand written fastpass for their party and all party members must be there, this took anywhere from 10 to 20 minutes, for a pass that was an hour out, so in reality you waited 1 hour and 20 minutes, longer than the original fastpass person. Next you come back and go up the fastpass lane, but you don't get to follow the other people and get on your ride, no, you are split off to another line right before you get to the ride. This line unlike the fast pass line is a good 20 minutes long. You must wait until a car is pulled off the track and loaded and put back on the track so there is a build up of at least three to four cars of people before you and they only allow 2 w/c cars on the track at anytime, so while the regular fastpass people are on the ride enjoying it, you are in line waiting yet another 20 minutes. So in reality the person with a GAC card took 1 hour and 40 minutes to ride RSR when the person without a GAC took only 1 hour.

They send all GAC card holders over to the other line not just w/c persons, so even if you GAC is for autism you still go over to the other line and wait the extra time.

But then you have the me's in the world and my group gets sent over to the other line and there is 5 of us, but we can not all go together, no there is no magical moments for our family no matter what we have to split our group and go one at a time. So the first group has waited the 1 hour and 40 minutes and finally half of our group goes on, while I sit back with my guide dog and my ex's service animal and another person in our group, 10 minutes later or so the car comes back and they get out and it is our turn, but the cast members make us all get back in the line and wait again for 20 minutes so that the other groups who where waiting get to go, and then we get back up there again and me and my ex get to go while our DD's get to hold the dogs, for us that fastpass that everyone is dying to get there hands on just took us 2 hours and 10 minutes, more than twice what it would have taken if we did not have the GAC cards.

My complaint is why can a GAC person like me get a regular fastpass and be allowed to go up the regular fast pass line, so I am not discriminated against. Why can't I be allowed to ride with all my family and not have to split up my group, Disney lost a law suit a year ago for not accommodating service dogs, yet still I have to separate from my group not just once but twice to ride the ride.

Those who are ignorant and think a GAC is a fastpass have not really used one, and those who think that and have not been to DL in lines like POTC and SM are just ignorant because these lines are a lot longer with a GAC card even when the regular line is walk on.

The blogger needs to study facts before he writes an inflammatory remark, the fact that annual passholders got in before opening most mornings caused RSR to be overloaded from the start with and without GAC cards, the fact that hotel guest got in added to the problem. The fact that all GAC card holders had to go and get a fastpass added to the GAC problem, the fact that Disney set it up that all GAC card holders went to a separate boarding caused a backup and the fact that the backup actually caused the GAC card holders to wait, longer than fastpass persons and walk on persons, making it an unfair wait for them, not a front of the line pass at all but a longer wait than anyone else.
You do have the option to get a regular FP, but I am not sure how they would handle the service animal if you did so.

I do know that they are supposed to be providing kennels upon request soon for service animals at attractions where they are not allowed, so that all members of the party can ride together. From what I understand, the CMs will not be responsible for the animal, they will simply be responsible for the crate and making sure no one comes near it.

This has not happened yet, but it is being worked on as part of a settlement to avoid a lawsuit. It could happen at anytime, so be sure to always ask if they have it available yet. The CMs might not like you asking, but if enough people do so, it may get them to move faster on getting it to happen.

As for the GACs at RSR, if you don't have a wheelchair, cane, no stairs stamp or a service animal, etc., they usually send you up the FP return, unless you tell them that you can't do the stairs.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:58 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by cmwade77 View Post
You do have the option to get a regular FP, but I am not sure how they would handle the service animal if you did so.

I do know that they are supposed to be providing kennels upon request soon for service animals at attractions where they are not allowed, so that all members of the party can ride together. From what I understand, the CMs will not be responsible for the animal, they will simply be responsible for the crate and making sure no one comes near it.

This has not happened yet, but it is being worked on as part of a settlement to avoid a lawsuit. It could happen at anytime, so be sure to always ask if they have it available yet. The CMs might not like you asking, but if enough people do so, it may get them to move faster on getting it to happen.

As for the GACs at RSR, if you don't have a wheelchair, cane, no stairs stamp or a service animal, etc., they usually send you up the FP return, unless you tell them that you can't do the stairs.
All GACs must get a "return pass." There is no GAC, except those given to Make A Wish kids, which allows you to go into the FP line immediately. You would be given a "return pass" roughly equal to the stand by wait time and then you would return to the ride after the time on your return pass. Anyone who cannot do stairs (wheelchair or not), goes to a secondary line after waiting in for the "return pass" time, waiting in the Fastpass line, and then you get to wait in the secondary line.

For safety reasons, they limit the number of people with mobility disabilities on the ride at a time. There is no "instant access" for anyone at any time.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:07 AM   #127
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All GACs must get a "return pass." There is no GAC, except those given to Make A Wish kids, which allows you to go into the FP line immediately. You would be given a "return pass" roughly equal to the stand by wait time and then you would return to the ride after the time on your return pass. Anyone who cannot do stairs (wheelchair or not), goes to a secondary line after waiting in for the "return pass" time, waiting in the Fastpass line, and then you get to wait in the secondary line.

For safety reasons, they limit the number of people with mobility disabilities on the ride at a time. There is no "instant access" for anyone at any time.
How is making someone wait in a second line because they can't do stairs considered "equal" access?
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:09 AM   #128
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All GACs must get a "return pass." There is no GAC, except those given to Make A Wish kids, which allows you to go into the FP line immediately. You would be given a "return pass" roughly equal to the stand by wait time and then you would return to the ride after the time on your return pass. Anyone who cannot do stairs (wheelchair or not), goes to a secondary line after waiting in for the "return pass" time, waiting in the Fastpass line, and then you get to wait in the secondary line.

For safety reasons, they limit the number of people with mobility disabilities on the ride at a time. There is no "instant access" for anyone at any time.
I am not saying instant access. I am saying they will send you up the FP queue instead of the wheelchair queue if you can handle it. I am also saying you have the option to get a FP like anyone else does.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:14 AM   #129
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I am not saying instant access. I am saying they will send you up the FP queue instead of the wheelchair queue if you can handle it. I am also saying you have the option to get a FP like anyone else does.
I am saying that there is no wheelchair queue vs FP queue. If a person enters any queue (single riders, FP, or standby), they all converge at one point. At this point the CM directs those who cannot handle stairs for any reason to the secondary line. Everyone else (from all three lines) goes into the last few feet of the regular line.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:14 AM   #130
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Y
I do know that they are supposed to be providing kennels upon request soon for service animals at attractions where they are not allowed, so that all members of the party can ride together. From what I understand, the CMs will not be responsible for the animal, they will simply be responsible for the crate and making sure no one comes near it.

This has not happened yet, but it is being worked on as part of a settlement to avoid a lawsuit. It could happen at anytime, so be sure to always ask if they have it available yet. The CMs might not like you asking, but if enough people do so, it may get them to move faster on getting it to happen.
http://businesslitigationinfo.com/bu...ally-impaired/

Disney has up to a year to implement the changes.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:17 AM   #131
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How is making someone wait in a second line because they can't do stairs considered "equal" access?
It's not, but we both know it happens in nearly every "mainstreamed" line. After we wait in the regular line, those of us with wheelchairs or other mobility devices are directed to a secondary place where we transfer into the ride vehicle. If there are more users of mobility devices there than can ride at one time, then we have to wait for our turn. It may not be equal, but that is the system that exists wherever lines are mainstreamed.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:42 AM   #132
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http://businesslitigationinfo.com/bu...ally-impaired/

Disney has up to a year to implement the changes.
The more people ask, the faster Disney will act, so I standby my comment to ask at every attraction where this is needed.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:56 AM   #133
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All GACs must get a "return pass." There is no GAC, except those given to Make A Wish kids, which allows you to go into the FP line immediately. You would be given a "return pass" roughly equal to the stand by wait time and then you would return to the ride after the time on your return pass. Anyone who cannot do stairs (wheelchair or not), goes to a secondary line after waiting in for the "return pass" time, waiting in the Fastpass line, and then you get to wait in the secondary line.

For safety reasons, they limit the number of people with mobility disabilities on the ride at a time. There is no "instant access" for anyone at any time.
Are you just talking about RSR at DL not Disney world when it comes to the all GACs get a return FP not sent up the FP line?
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:03 AM   #134
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Are you just talking about RSR at DL not Disney world when it comes to the all GACs get a return FP not sent up the FP line?
The only ride I know them doing this for is RSR. I understand they were trying to spread out the flow of wheelchairs because the secondary line was getting too long at times.

One of the reasons I understand them NOT doing this at other rides is the extra man power. It takes anywhere from a team of 2-4 CMs just to man the line to give out the return FPs.

I can see how this could be helpful for a few big attractions, but there are not many rides in DL with FP and most of THOSE are not wheelchair accessible. Only a handful in DCA are. Also, as others have said, this means I wait in 3 lines (for the return pass, in the line, then in the wheelchair line), PLUS the time I wait elsewhere waiting for my turn. It generally ends up being longer than the standby wait.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:35 PM   #135
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Are you just talking about RSR at DL not Disney world when it comes to the all GACs get a return FP not sent up the FP line?
It seems to be a standard practice at DLR for RSR. While not exactly common, it does happen on occasion at WDW for any ride. If there is reason to limit access to the attraction or alternate entrance, a handwritten FP may be given. This could be due to too many already in line for the accessible ride car, a medical emergency in the alternate wait area, etc.
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