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Old 02-09-2013, 04:35 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by phorsenuf View Post
But don't you feel he should provide himself a home where his children can come stay with him, instead of living in a bachelor pad where his children cannot?
Bachelor pad?? Have you ever seen the types of living arrangements these guys have when they are doing the type of work the son does? They get the cheapest apartment in the crappiest neighborhood they can find so they can save money FOR THEIR FAMILY! Insinuating that the son is living it up in a bachelor pad which conjures up partying, girls, hot tubs, and sex just isn't fair.

The guy is working to support his family. His wife chose to leave him. She may have had very valid reasons for leaving him. That is irrelevant. He is now doing what he can to provide for his family. What more do people want? He needs to stop relying on his mommy but other than that, he sounds like a hard working guy. The number of people on this thread that have a predetermined number of hours a father must spend with their children is ridiculous. I know so many families where the dad is rarely home. Nobody would bat an eye at that because they are happily married couples. As a matter of fact, the attitude would be "you have to do what you have to do to provide for your family." But this guy is deemed a deadbeat dad because he is only seeing his kids for about 36 hours a week. Oh the horrors!
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:38 PM   #212
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No kidding. What's your point?
I guess you are not ever going to get it.
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:41 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by phorsenuf View Post
But of course he could always lie and say he lives with his mother, thus granting him overnight visitation.

Ohhhh, yeah.... Lying to the courts, that would work out real nice.

But, hey, you know what the answer is.... to have visition to set up at his mother's house. She will 'take care of it'... She will provide.

That might be okay if one is really and truly in a pinch...
But, I don't see any pathway or indication that this is anything but an ongoing way-of-life.
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:54 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by LisaR View Post
Bachelor pad?? Have you ever seen the types of living arrangements these guys have when they are doing the type of work the son does? They get the cheapest apartment in the crappiest neighborhood they can find so they can save money FOR THEIR FAMILY! Insinuating that the son is living it up in a bachelor pad which conjures up partying, girls, hot tubs, and sex just isn't fair.

The guy is working to support his family. His wife chose to leave him. She may have had very valid reasons for leaving him. That is irrelevant. He is now doing what he can to provide for his family. What more do people want? He needs to stop relying on his mommy but other than that, he sounds like a hard working guy. The number of people on this thread that have a predetermined number of hours a father must spend with their children is ridiculous. I know so many families where the dad is rarely home. Nobody would bat an eye at that because they are happily married couples. As a matter of fact, the attitude would be "you have to do what you have to do to provide for your family." But this guy is deemed a deadbeat dad because he is only seeing his kids for about 36 hours a week. Oh the horrors!
The point is that he is a father, he is not with his children's mother. He is responsible for providing a safe and appropriate environment for HIS children when they are with him, and he has not done that. He has also not followed through with what seems to be the agreement between him and his ex about child care. If he is supposed to take care of the kids on the weekend, then it is his responsibility to ensure that they are properly cared for in an appropriate environment, by an appropriate person.

He doesn't have living arrangements suitable for his children, he doesn't pick his children up when he is supposed to. That is the problem here. If their agreement says he picks them up Friday and brings them back Sunday, then that is what he needs to adhere to. He knows his work schedule is changeable, so he needs to plan for that by having back up sitters in case he has to work, just like every other parent on earth.

Turn the story around here, say the children's mother dropped the kids off and picked them up based, solely, on what was convenient for her. There would be a whole new complaint here about how she was keeping them from their father.

By the way, the court can, and will, order the non-custodial parent to pay for a portion of childcare, over and above their child support, if they aren't able to provide that care.
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:59 PM   #215
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The best thing for all involved is for the Mom and Dad to hire lawyers and iron out an official agreement involving child support and a visitation schedule.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:02 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by badblackpug View Post
The point is that he is a father, he is not with his children's mother. He is responsible for providing a safe and appropriate environment for HIS children when they are with him, and he has not done that. He has also not followed through with what seems to be the agreement between him and his ex about child care. If he is supposed to take care of the kids on the weekend, then it is his responsibility to ensure that they are properly cared for in an appropriate environment, by an appropriate person.

He doesn't have living arrangements suitable for his children, he doesn't pick his children up when he is supposed to. That is the problem here. If their agreement says he picks them up Friday and brings them back Sunday, then that is what he needs to adhere to. He knows his work schedule is changeable, so he needs to plan for that by having back up sitters in case he has to work, just like every other parent on earth.

Turn the story around here, say the children's mother dropped the kids off and picked them up based, solely, on what was convenient for her. There would be a whole new complaint here about how she was keeping them from their father.

By the way, the court can, and will, order the non-custodial parent to pay for a portion of childcare, over and above their child support, if they aren't able to provide that care.
I don't disagree with you, BUT (and this is a BIG BUT) all of those things don't make him a deadbeat dad. They don't make him a horrible father. They don't make him a loser who will never change. He isn't living the life of Riley and totally forgetting about his kids and not supporting them. These are all things that have been insinuated continuously by some in this thread.

There is no doubt he needs to fix this. He won't do that if grandma is always there to rescue him. I think everyone on this thread agrees that grandma needs to let him handle it. But again, that doesn't mean the guy is a horrible person with children that will grow up to hate him because he was never, ever there their entire lives. Some are making huge leaps.

And, again, the DIL also needs to step up. It really does seem like some man haters are on this thread. The entire responsibility of financial support seems to lie on the son. The DIL isn't working, lives rent free, and has built in babysitters with her parents and the OP'er. Maybe if she took a weekend job, dad could quit the wrestling gig and have his children all weekend while mom works.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:05 PM   #217
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She could get off her tuffet and get a job to help support the children she helped create, like millions of other single mothers do. She chose to leave a marriage without a game plan for success for her family. Her game plan was to go home to Mom & Dad. His game plan, when he found himself as a single parent, was to move somewhere where he had a job that had a higher wage to try to support his family.

This exact situation could play out even if they were still living as a family. My husband was military for most of our marriage. I have been a parent for 18 years and for the first 13 of that I could have described myself as a "single parent half the time" because he was literally away from home for nearly half of those 13 years. Sometimes plans had to be changed because he deployed or went on course on short notice. It happens. I and millions of other military spouses deal/dealt with it every day.

The reality is that while he should make arrangements for child care in his absence if the informal, verbal agreement is that he has the children on the weekends, it would behoove her to have a backup plan in case he has to work on this super important concert weekend. So should he. If his livelihood depends on him working on that particular Saturday there isn't much he can do about it. If she wants to continue to have disposable income to go out of town for a concert then she is just going to have to make sure she has other arrangements in place. Exactly the way she would have had to if they still lived together and he suddenly had to work overtime.
EXACTLY!!!!!! I am sure this situation comes up in marriages where the two are together more than you think. My husband worked in another town for 2 years and I took care of our 3 kids and worked part time. There were times he couldn't make it home for the weekend. Did I run off to divorce him and take the kids away? Of course not. I networked with other mothers to have someone to take the kids, cancelled some plans, and accepted that this was the way it was going to be for a while.

Jumping to a lawyer/court/custody hearings is the reason why kids get so screwed up when the parents can't get along. GEEEESH!
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:13 PM   #218
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There is a difference between what works when you are married and what works when you are separated. The reason it's a custody issue is because the couple in question is separated. That means during mom's custody time she's in charge and during Dad's custody time he's in charge.

The MIL and husband want the DIL to be the one to make alternate arrangements when Dad can't make his agreed upon custody time. While that might work for a married couple to decide it's always mom's job, it doesn't work that way during custody situations.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:20 PM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishing on a star
She has two young children.
They are the OP's son's children.
And, not only should she be completely responsible for them 6-7 days a week, with no father present, but she should now also get off her duff and help support them so that this guy can go live in a bachelor pad, and do whatever he wants, with no responsibility at all

Wow... Just freakin' WOW.
O M G....

I am so glad that the courts do not see it that way.

She IS supporting them.
She has made a responsible decision to allow her mother to help provide acceptable housing, food, child-care, so that she will not have to work 40-60 hours a week and have her children live in a tiny, sub-standard place somewhere.

Some of the comments here, just can't even begin to wrap my head around them.

This man isn't working and providing for his family... He is off shirking responsibility, playing care-free bachelor, while estranged wife and mommy handle everything.
Umm, I think it's clear from the OP that the man is working and doing what he can. Remember, rent can be very high in some places, so he may not have a choice but to have roommates.

Now the mom also seems to be doing what she can as well. Mother one is perfect, but it appears both are trying, so I don't see why so many are being so judgmental.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:22 PM   #220
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The title of the thread..

Quote:
Ok, Tell Me How She Feels So That I Can Understand
It's been done, over and over again. I really don't think OP liked the response.

OP... your DIL feels frustrated and likely angry because she was expected to pick up the slack for your son.

If he is now available for his children that weekend, then all should be solved.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:22 PM   #221
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I think a lot of us are having the issue that he isn't the one to make arrangement for care for the girls and he takes Saturday nights off to wrestle.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:36 PM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaR View Post
Bachelor pad?? Have you ever seen the types of living arrangements these guys have when they are doing the type of work the son does? They get the cheapest apartment in the crappiest neighborhood they can find so they can save money FOR THEIR FAMILY! Insinuating that the son is living it up in a bachelor pad which conjures up partying, girls, hot tubs, and sex just isn't fair.
I am well aware of how it is. My husband has been there, done that before we were married (well, we were dating at the time). But if you don't think there isn't any partying/drinking/sex going on then you are well off base. Even the OP stated it wasn't an environment for the kids to be around. Why would you suppose that is?

Look, I've never once said he was a deadbeat or anything of the sorts. I'm looking at it in different ways, and one of those ways is I know how construction guys live. It's no different from cable linemen. And oh the stories I could tell...

OP, is there a middle spot your son could live where he could still commute to his job but also a better environment for the kids?
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:38 PM   #223
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Did I miss it somewhere (either in this thread or another)?

* Do we know whether the father is financially supporting his wife and kids (from what I know, he has a job making good money now, but do we know what he does with the money)?
* Do we know whether the mother is working or not?

Either way, M2B is correct. The OP wanted to know what her DiL is thinking. She got back the same answer time and time again.

To me, it doesn't matter if the father is making $1M a year. The issue is he's supposed to take care of the kids on weekends, and (because of work) there have been many times he couldn't. The mom says "in three weeks, I need you to take care of the kids". Yes, if she was smart, she'd make alternate arrangements, because she knows the father is unreliable. However, it should be HIS responsibility.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:43 PM   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disykat View Post
There is a difference between what works when you are married and what works when you are separated. The reason it's a custody issue is because the couple in question is separated. That means during mom's custody time she's in charge and during Dad's custody time he's in charge.

The MIL and husband want the DIL to be the one to make alternate arrangements when Dad can't make his agreed upon custody time. While that might work for a married couple to decide it's always mom's job, it doesn't work that way during custody situations.
Every relationship, whether you are married, or trying to work out custody issues takes give and take. If the separated parents can manage to be flexible, their kids will be better off. She is getting the benefit of him working the job he has. It probably isn't any more fun for him to be away from his family as it is for her to have primary responsibility for the kids.

I wonder what this thread would be like if he wasn't working at all because he wanted to spend as much time as he could with his family, and was living off of welfare?
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:43 PM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FayeW View Post
She could get off her tuffet and get a job to help support the children she helped create, like millions of other single mothers do. She chose to leave a marriage without a game plan for success for her family. Her game plan was to go home to Mom & Dad. His game plan, when he found himself as a single parent, was to move somewhere where he had a job that had a higher wage to try to support his family.

This exact situation could play out even if they were still living as a family. My husband was military for most of our marriage. I have been a parent for 18 years and for the first 13 of that I could have described myself as a "single parent half the time" because he was literally away from home for nearly half of those 13 years. Sometimes plans had to be changed because he deployed or went on course on short notice. It happens. I and millions of other military spouses deal/dealt with it every day.

The reality is that while he should make arrangements for child care in his absence if the informal, verbal agreement is that he has the children on the weekends, it would behoove her to have a backup plan in case he has to work on this super important concert weekend. So should he. If his livelihood depends on him working on that particular Saturday there isn't much he can do about it. If she wants to continue to have disposable income to go out of town for a concert then she is just going to have to make sure she has other arrangements in place. Exactly the way she would have had to if they still lived together and he suddenly had to work overtime.
It wouldnt matter if she was the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, if the agreement is that Dad should have them from Fri to Sun, than the onus is on HIM to find alternate childcare if he has to work.

I dont fault the guy for taking a job out of town, if that is all that is available in the area. Jobs are not that easy to come by esp in certain fields. Heck DH is working out of town for awhile bc of a noncompete. It is tough on the family but it is what we need to do. And I think it is admirable he is working to support his children. But he needs to take on the responsibilty of getting someone to watch his kids if he cant be there during his time....whether it is Grandma (OP) or a hired babysitter.

I have NO issue with the OP choosing to go to show choir with her DD bc it is not her responsibility. If she can help on occasion, that is great but it is not her problem if she cant. Yes maybe she can send DD off with another family for one day, but that would be a favor and dad should be seeing what else can be arranged and not relying on his mother.

I do have an issue with the wrestling. It does seem to eat into his time with his kids, and I dont really get a good feeling about kids who need diapers hanging out backstage at a wrestling show while dad performs.
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