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View Poll Results: If it was your choice, what would you do in the area designated for Avatar?
Love the Avatar Concept! Pure Disney Genius! 41 16.33%
Scrap Avatar! Give me the Australian Outback instead. 130 51.79%
Like the idea of something new, but, neither Avatar or Australia are doing it for me. 68 27.09%
The area is lovely now - just leave it as is! 12 4.78%
Voters: 251. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-07-2013, 06:35 PM   #16
bom_noite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raidermatt View Post
Certainly there are those that agree with you. But Disney has to look at the big picture, and in that big picture, they can't afford to have so many people think of AK as not the park for them.

Australia, just like Asia and Africa, is a perfect fit for Animal Kingdom.
I agree with what you are saying: MORE OF THE SAME may not be healthy for the park, and, attendance.

I do think as you do though - Australia is a perfect fit.

As a family we trudged down there 10 straight years and avoided AK for the first 4 - I love animals but will not go across the street to see them. Our opinions changed the first time we went. It is now our favorite park and we never go without a visit to AK.

Too me it is not Everest or the Animals - it is the subtle details and picturesque beauty that makes it a wonderful place to spend a day.

The problem Disney faces is that the family from Topeka who goes once every 10 years limited time / funds. AK would be the one they skip. Disney has to find a way to get these folks in the door - and - I admit that Australia may not do it.

While I am still anti-Avatar, I do agree with that fact it may get people in the door - and - that may not be a bad thing.
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:55 PM   #17
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Oh, I think Australia could get people in just fine. The key of course is what is built. Avatar may sound sexier because we think of a special effects laden film whose strength was it's striking visuals.

But an Australia done on the right scale, complete with an E-ticket and a supporting attraction or two to go along with the well-done animal exhibits could do very well I think.

Don't get me wrong, I'm also fine with going in another direction, like North America, South America, or even bringing back the Beastly Kingdom idea.

I understand the tempatation to look at what AK is and say it's not really working so why do more of the same. But I look at it this way, KS and E:E are the two biggest draws in the park. Without them, they'd probably be closing the doors at 3pm. I think the concept, with some tweaking, is fine. They just haven't done enough of it.

As for Avatar, I just think entering into a complicated partnership with another entity is asking for trouble. Especially when the ability of that property to become a lasting franchise is highly questionable, or at the very least unproven.

Avatar is not a Pixar or Star Wars.
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:57 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by raidermatt View Post
Certainly there are those that agree with you. But Disney has to look at the big picture, and in that big picture, they can't afford to have so many people think of AK as not the park for them.

Australia, just like Asia and Africa, is a perfect fit for Animal Kingdom.
I agree with what you are saying: MORE OF THE SAME may not be healthy for the park, and, attendance.

I do think as you do though - Australia is a perfect fit.

As a family we trudged down there 10 straight years and avoided AK for the first 4 - I love animals but will not go across the street to see them. Our opinions changed the first time we went. It is now our favorite park and we never go without a visit to AK.

Too me it is not Everest or the Animals - it is the subtle details and picturesque beauty that makes it a wonderful place to spend a day.

The problem Disney faces is that the family from Topeka who goes once every 10 years limited time / funds. AK would be the one they skip. Disney has to find a way to get these folks in the door - and - I admit that Australia may not do it.

While I am still anti-Avatar, I do agree with that fact it may get people in the door - and - that may not be a bad thing.


Quote:
It's been 25 years since a pavilion was added to Epcot. At some point, we need to face up to the reality that the economics, as defined by Disney, do not work out.
Not sure where you are going here - hope you can expand.

Will say that Epcot, despite it's massive size, is just flat out land-locked! Their only chance at expansion is to cannibalize what they have already.

My son just got done with a 9 month College Program working at Epcot. His opinion was that other then Soarin', Test Track and Living Seas (to some extent) the place was a Restaurant / Bar park. The real draw was the World ShowCase. He felt they should lose many of the under-loved exhibits and just expand the show case outwards and add the likes of Russia, Brazil, Greece, Australia, Austria, India, Turkey, etc., etc., etc.

That might be a 20 year transformation, but, it would get them out of trying to keep the North Portion relevant.
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bom_noite
Not sure where you are going here - hope you can expand.

Will say that Epcot, despite it's massive size, is just flat out land-locked! Their only chance at expansion is to cannibalize what they have already.

My son just got done with a 9 month College Program working at Epcot. His opinion was that other then Soarin', Test Track and Living Seas (to some extent) the place was a Restaurant / Bar park. The real draw was the World ShowCase. He felt they should lose many of the under-loved exhibits and just expand the show case outwards and add the likes of Russia, Brazil, Greece, Australia, Austria, India, Turkey, etc., etc., etc.

That might be a 20 year transformation, but, it would get them out of trying to keep the North Portion relevant.
Oh my, no.

There are, I believe, spots for at least 5 more pavilions in WS. The original plan was to continue adding countries over time, but they haven't. You can see the space on a satellite view. One is obviously where the current refreshment outpost is. But there are other spots between current countries.

On the economics.... the reason they haven't built any new countries in 25 years is that Disney requires big money from the sponsoring entity, be it a tourism bureau, a company, whoever. Nobody finds that to be a good deal anymore, hence no new countries. Disney is holding fast to that strategy, figuring that it's better to keep the current pavilions under more favorable terms than it would be to give-in to new pavilions.

FW has its problems, but space isn't one of them (unless you mean Mission:Space). Regardless, there is an unused pavilion right now, so there is room to do more if they wish. But other than that, needing to add more isn't so much the problem as what they have.

In your son's list of the 3 worthwhile things in FW, he didn't even include Mission:Space, which was supposed to be a tentpole attraction that would be a huge draw unto itself. Obviously that didn't happen and it illustrates the point that it isn't so much the quantity of what is in FW, it's the quality that is the problem.
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Last edited by raidermatt; 02-07-2013 at 07:14 PM. Reason: Changed wilderness to refreshment. Oops.
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:32 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by raidermatt View Post
In your son's list of the 3 worthwhile things in FW, he didn't even include Mission:Space, which was supposed to be a tentpole attraction that would be a huge draw unto itself. Obviously that didn't happen and it illustrates the point that it isn't so much the quantity of what is in FW, it's the quality that is the problem.
He is / was actually a very big proponent of FW as he worked there. He felt it was under loved and under appreciated. We walked through it together in December. I was aghast at the landscaping that had not been properly attended too and the buildings in desperate need of paint! Buildings that were closed with no plan on what was coming next.

He also tells me about guests who were just amazed that FW even existed. He told me about countless guests that were just mystified that Epcot was not just the WS and asked him his opinions on what to do and where to go. They suggest these kids use their days off to really study the area they work in: Where is the nearest bathroom, smoking area, drink vendor, etc. He is a studious kid and did what he was asked and spent days exploring FW (with female CP's of course). I had been to Epcot 20 times, he took me to a dozen places I had no idea existed.

FW, he felt, was a hidden gem that was under-loved. And, if it was under-loved by the guests and management - just transform it! Take what is good and keep it. The rest, build new Nations.

Last edited by bom_noite; 02-07-2013 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:31 PM   #21
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Australia got my vote. But I would love Beastly Kingdomme or Mysterious Island
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:54 PM   #22
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Would love an Australian-themed exhibit/land and I think that Avatarland doesn't exactly fit the AK theme (being a fictional environment) ... however I voted for Avatarland because I think the number one, immediate priority for AK is more rides.

Of course you could easily come up with great ride concepts related to Australia (or South America or any other eco-land similar to the Africa or Asia lands) but since Avatar is what we got, I'm happy that they're going ahead with it.

I think they should either give Dinoland a complete overhaul, or else scrap it and turn it into Down Under, South America land, or almost anything else other than what it is now. If they wish to keep the prehistoric theme they could turn it into "The Land that Time Forgot" which would be a lot cooler and more atmospheric than "Dinosaur themed roadside tourist trap".
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:02 PM   #23
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whatever goes in there - It needs an E-ticket and a kiddie/family ride
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:55 PM   #24
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Mythical Animal Kingdom-dragons, pegasus, griffins...heck even an avatar would fit in here (even though I think Avatar was so, so at best)
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:46 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Hendy View Post
.
I think they should either give Dinoland a complete overhaul, or else scrap it and turn it into Down Under, South America land, or almost anything else other than what it is now. If they wish to keep the prehistoric theme they could turn it into "The Land that Time Forgot" which would be a lot cooler and more atmospheric than "Dinosaur themed roadside tourist trap".


Not me, I think Dinoland is great. Its one of the most detailed and themed lands in any Disney park
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:08 PM   #26
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I worked at AK when the park first opened. We were told that the original concept was Animals That Were, Animals That Are and Animals That Never Were (as represented by the animals on the front gates). I would love to see this idea come to light with a land dedicated to mythical beasts.

I have to say, I would be really disappointed by Avatarland in AK. If anywhere, I could see it at the Studios.
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:36 PM   #27
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I have to say, I would be really disappointed by Avatarland in AK. If anywhere, I could see it at the Studios.
I think the Poll as it stands right now speaks volumes.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:36 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raidermatt View Post
Certainly there are those that agree with you. But Disney has to look at the big picture, and in that big picture, they can't afford to have so many people think of AK as not the park for them. Clearly they are still trying to find ways to make the park more compelling for more people.
~I think Disney is looking at the big picture. Avatarland is unique, if the attraction(s) are well done, it will be a huge success for Disney! It's a bold, daring & exciting venture -- Disney is taking a huge risk for sure, but I *love* that!!! The Imagineers and James Cameron teamed together will create an amazing *new* theme park experience!

Quote:
It's been 25 years since a pavilion was added to Epcot. At some point, we need to face up to the reality that the economics, as defined by Disney, do not work out.

Australia, just like Asia and Africa, is a perfect fit for Animal Kingdom.
~India would be the perfect fit for Animal Kingdom!!!

Quote:
But should Disney ever decide World Showcase is worth the trouble of them spending some of their own money, there's no reason Australia couldn't be in both WS and AK. Asia is currently in AK and China/Japan are in WS and it works fine. Clearly the focus would be different.
~Like I said before, I would love to see Australia in Epcot, with the Sydney Opera House as the centerpiece. I know this will probably never happen.

Quote:
In AK, Australia wouldn't, or at least shouldn't, be represented as a country, but rather as a continent. A geographic entity, not a nationality. Again, just like Asia and Africa. There will always be somebody upset, just as I'm sure there are people who live in Asia and Africa that don't like Disney's depiction in AK.
~I'm not *against* Australia in AK. You've been here a while, this is hardly some new groundbreaking concept, this Australia at AK thing has been beaten into the ground on these boards for years. I just don't think it's all that great of an idea. I like Avatarland way bettter! I'm so glad, it's actually happening soon, and not some random "concept" like the Outback.

Quote:
As I'm sure you know, the dragon is representative of Beastly Kingdom, an area originally planned and announced by Disney to be added to AK after it opened. Of course, Disney retreated after the public's less than enthusiastic response to AK when it opened, and BK never came to be.

But the idea was that yes, mythical creatures would be included, but they would have their own area. Asia and Africa would remain based on actual animals.
Obviously Disney no longer believes in that philosophy as you correctly point out that the Yeti is in Asia. But that doesn't mean the idea is going to sit well with everyone. After all, there were very valid creative reasons for keeping the mythical creatures seperate, and nothing has changed that.
~I had never heard of Beastly Kingdom until Avatarland was annouced. I have to admit, I love the concept, it's too bad Disney abandoned the project. But, like I said before, I'm not under the impression that Disney is eager to invest more $$$ in WDW.

~Anyway, I can't wait for Avatarland, it's going to be so fabulous!!! I know James Cameron prides himself on new tech & innovation, he will not settle for mediocrity!
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:10 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by bom_noite

I think the Poll as it stands right now speaks volumes.
No it doesnt. People dont even know what's going there and thy dont like it. The few protesters are always the loudest. 99% of the people dont care whats going on as long as its fun
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:03 PM   #30
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~Many Australians here have said, they don't wish to be defined by the "Outback." They find the association of their culture with the "Outback" to be somewhat offensive, in a stereotypical manner. Australia should be in Epcot -- the Sydney Opera House right off of the Epcot lake would be so fabulous!!!
Yeah, nothing stereotypical about the operahouse, lol. Its like the only manmade monument that anyone outside of Australia knows about.

The funny part about watching the series "Lost" is seeing every australian scene having the operahouse SOMEWHERE in the background, in case anyone confused it for another country.
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