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Old 02-07-2013, 02:51 PM   #16
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~RSR looks nice, but the other two are not! I don't think we need "two" Carsland's. Obviously, I won't object to it, because DHS needs something -- anything! But, I'm not thrilled either, it's been done before, so there is nothing *new* to get excited about.

~If a duplicate Carsland goes to DHS, then I see this as Disney conceding the theme park wars "arms race." "Carsland" is not the answer for Harry Potter! Universal will be so thrilled with the news of "Carsland." I guess I'm just wrong for thinking Disney is capable of so much more! But, if the public demands less, why give more?!?
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:08 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by DRDISNEYMD View Post
~RSR looks nice, but the other two are not! I don't think we need "two" Carsland's. Obviously, I won't object to it, because DHS needs something -- anything! But, I'm not thrilled either, it's been done before, so there is nothing *new* to get excited about.

~If a duplicate Carsland goes to DHS, then I see this as Disney conceding the theme park wars "arms race." "Carsland" is not the answer for Harry Potter! Universal will be so thrilled with the news of "Carsland." I guess I'm just wrong for thinking Disney is capable of so much more! But, if the public demands less, why give more?!?
I never said Carsland was the best thing for the Studio's - I said it is a logical answer given the state of things.

From reading your posts you are quick to criticize and never give a logically thought out remedy Everyone has an opinion, few can provide a logically thought out argument. Step back, think logically and give a take.

If you can't, then, find a new hobby.
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:09 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by DRDISNEYMD View Post

~If a duplicate Carsland goes to DHS, then I see this as Disney conceding the theme park wars "arms race." "Carsland" is not the answer for Harry Potter! Universal will be so thrilled with the news of "Carsland." I guess I'm just wrong for thinking Disney is capable of so much more! But, if the public demands less, why give more?!?
I don't get the whole arms race thing, IMO Disney should not be competing with itself. Why spend all this money to out do your sister park when in the end all you are doing is trying to take attendance (ie money) from another Disney park? What they need to be doing is trying to take attendance from their competition, Universal.

I don't think Carsland is the answer for Harry Potter, but it will draw people, no question. That's being proven on the west coast right now.

What will compete with Harry Potter? Star Wars, and I think that will happen at some point. On what level? no idea

As a father to two young boys, my oldest only being 19 months old, he's starting to show a huge love for the movie Cars. I have no doubt once my youngest son (6 months) is able to comprehend what he's watching, he's going to love it also. So as a parent to two young boys, I'm extremely excited about the possibility of Carsland at WDW.
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:28 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bom_noite

Always better served to tackle a question with logic rather then gut reaction. I agree with your logic.
The exact day(s) that the new area at DCA opened...threads popped up all over the Disney fandom "assuming" that the land was gonna quickly be built in MGM in some form.

With no basis whatsoever...no official plans, announcements hints...or when considering the avatar announcement - any logical angle.

So yeah...that's "fanboy" in my book.

That isn't to say that the term is derogatory as you seem to think. I kinda defined is "heart above head"
There's really nothing wrong with that...but it sets up for a lot of disappointment that people shouldn't have to cope with.

My basis is looking at how they've run WDW since AK (I would argue prior to AK in some ways as well)....rapid fire huge money construction projects aren't the pattern.

Look at what they've built over time...look at their rehabs and replacements...look at the closures.

It's just not there. If they have changed that Movin forward...no one is going to be happier than I
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:36 PM   #20
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The exact day(s) that the new area at DCA opened...threads popped up all over the Disney fandom "assuming" that the land was gonna quickly be built in MGM in some form.

With no basis whatsoever...no official plans, announcements hints...or when considering the avatar announcement - any logical angle.

So yeah...that's "fanboy" in my book.
There is basis now to believe it will happen, its been outlined to you already. That's not fanboy.

With the multitude of rumors from different sources, and the personal shifts that were directly involved in Carsland, I'd be more surprised if it didn't happen.
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:37 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bom_noite View Post
I never said Carsland was the best thing for the Studio's - I said it is a logical answer given the state of things.

From reading your posts you are quick to criticize and never give a logically thought out remedy Everyone has an opinion, few can provide a logically thought out argument. Step back, think logically and give a take.

If you can't, then, find a new hobby.
~What??? I didn't quote your post, I was speaking in general! I didn't even read your opinion on Carsland! As for a "logical thought out argument" for Carsland @DHS, I have yet to see one, amidst all the conjecture & high strung emotions.

~Let's not turn to ad hom and fallacious attacks, this always happens when an "argument" is void of any facts! This is a rumor, that's all. You take your own advice and step back and think "logically", you are arguing second hand information (with whom, I don't know?) and rumors with no facts. It's your opinion, nothing more. If you can't embrace other opinions and respect the fact that people may think differently than you, than your time would be better served in a new "hobby." This is hardly anything to get worked up about!

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Originally Posted by ChipnDale79 View Post
I don't get the whole arms race thing, IMO Disney should not be competing with itself. Why spend all this money to out do your sister park when in the end all you are doing is trying to take attendance (ie money) from another Disney park? What they need to be doing is trying to take attendance from their competition, Universal.

I don't think Carsland is the answer for Harry Potter, but it will draw people, no question. That's being proven on the west coast right now.

What will compete with Harry Potter? Star Wars, and I think that will happen at some point. On what level? no idea
~I totally agree with this! I would like to see Disney duke it out with Universal. If Disney brings Carsland to DHS, then I will feel they have conceded! Why bother with Carsland when they could build Pixarland with elements of Cars like RSR? And of course, Starwarsland! Honestly, I'm not convinced that Disney really wants to invest any more into WDW. I really hope that's not the case, we'll see.
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:38 PM   #22
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You know, I like the see different opinions on things, like what we should or shouldn't see in the future at WDW. But sometimes it turns into a battle of who seems to know more.

In the end, it's a wait and watch deal as Disney fans and let's see what they do.

I think we can get the general census of what we would like to see by what has been posted. Seems like most are on the same page.
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:40 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by DRDISNEYMD View Post
~

~I totally agree with this! I would like to see Disney duke it out with Universal. If Disney brings Carsland to DHS, then I will feel they have conceded! Why bother with Carsland when they could build Pixarland with elements of Cars like RSR? And of course, Starwarsland!
This is what I would like to see, Id like to see RSR and a little more Pixar stuff. It doesn't have to all be Carsland.

I would love to see an entire redo of DHS, but I dunno if they will do it.
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:01 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by ChipnDale79

There is basis now to believe it will happen, its been outlined to you already. That's not fanboy.

With the multitude of rumors from different sources, and the personal shifts that were directly involved in Carsland, I'd be more surprised if it didn't happen.
You do realize that you're talking about a corp that randomly swaps executives for no legitimate reason?

They swapped the park guy for the accountant 2 years ago...make sense to you?

No...but they subscribe to the theory that as long as you went to Wharton and are worth 8 figures...you can do anything.

Most big business does...it's a mistake.

But you can't use their executive shuffling as proof.

Nor can you accept rumors...there truth rate is pathetically low.

Trust the shovels. Trust vertical construction.

But as '77 says...there is some difference of opinion on Carsland and that is good food for thought...

I don't want anything to do with rides that are "101" all the time.
If racers is going down the path of test track, the yeti, or rocket rods...no thank you
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:45 PM   #25
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Most big business does...it's a mistake.

But you can't use their executive shuffling as proof.
You have fought back somewhat gamely Locked - I admit.

As an exec myself I can honestly say the further up you go the more you look for a safety net. I take pride that I have always seen this and ignored the pattern - but would not have it any other way. 90% of exec's don't see it that way - and 100% of Disney execs - which live in a Piranha bowl.*

*How do I know? Trust me - I have swam with the Orlando Piranha's I speak of in their fish tank and had them nipping at me and my employee's ankles. And, it is truly a survival of the fittest experience. 500 Young exec's all hungry and wanting to become Eisner tomorrow.

Again, I want to reiterate the "Exec Logic" I cited below. And, again I am asking you to refute the logic (which both ChipNDale and I are certain of). Both Chip and I solidly believe your 80 / 20% prognostication is terribly flawed.....

1) The rumors are too numerous and too frequent not to believe they will do something at the studio's.
2) I am a long-time Lutz follower. He has fantastic sources and is right 90% of the time. He usually is only wrong when
internal politics cause a sudden last minute twist.
3) The guy who brought the world Carsland in Anaheim just took over as the WDW President.
4) Carland provided an immediate and lasting attendance boost in Cali.
5) They built it once, is cheaper to build it a 2nd time.
6) They built something new at the MK - it didn't give them the results they wanted. Why would any job-loving exec say: "Let's build something new and risk my very lucrative salary, bonus and stock options!"

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Old 02-07-2013, 05:17 PM   #26
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~What??? I didn't quote your post, I was speaking in general! I didn't even read your opinion on Carsland! As for a "logical thought out argument" for Carsland @DHS, I have yet to see one, amidst all the conjecture & high strung emotions.
Doc, if you think I am a pompous idiot there is a good reason: I am a pompous idiot!

I do believe in my theories and love to defend them. I also enjoy the "give and take", I read everyone's opinion and am quick to change my opinion based on many of the fantastic posts I read.

Sometimes I come off wrong (and am the first to admit to it and HATE when I do that!), but, I love the passion and creativity of everyone here. We really are all on the same side. We all are here to discuss a place we love dearly! In my opinion there are no wrong answer on the Dis Boards.

The only reason I believe so many of my posts make sense is that I did work with the Orlando crew. And, it was a bloody experience - one that took me years to get past. Before we started our project I told my team: "These folks care passionately about quality and customer experience - all companies should be as passionate! Look and learn, we may walk away a better company!" We found something else. Advancement, Empire Building, Scape-Goating and Profits were king. It was many years ago - maybe it has changed.

I have seen it written that anyone who eats feels they can build a better Restaurant. I also think that anyone who has ridden a coaster feels they can run a better Theme Park. It ain't that easy despite our collective rantings.

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Old 02-07-2013, 05:32 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bom_noite

1) The rumors are too numerous and too frequent not to believe they will do something at the studio's.
2) I am a long-time Lutz follower. He has fantastic sources and is right 90% of the time. He usually is only wrong when
internal politics cause a sudden last minute twist.
3) The guy who brought the world Carsland in Anaheim just took over as the WDW President.
4) Carland provided an immediate and lasting attendance boost in Cali.
5) They built it once, is cheaper to build it a 2nd time.
6) They built something new at the MK - it didn't give them the results they wanted. Why would any job-loving exec say: "Let's build something new and risk my very lucrative salary, bonus and stock options!"
Ok...I'm going to skip over comment on all that wordy stuff at the top. It doesn't come off as "exec"...it comes off as "entry level GSM"...especially the "Orlando piranha" comment. Yes...Orlando...long known as one of the true "blood baths" of the business world.

I'm going to assume that my impression of you is wrong...and you have a solid ground.

So I'll just go to the numerical points:

1. Rumors are too frequent and numerous? Hmmm...I'm not really required to come up to a response to that one, am I? You seem to know better than to type that.
2. Lutz and Yee...I enjoy their stuff greatly. But to portray it as gospel...again, not really a good stance. They post rumors on sources...and those sources are far from reputable in many cases. They do nice analysis that I appreciate. If they have a tip on big construction that comes to happen...it will be great. But they can't be taken At face value. They ALWAYS have an out if it doesn't. As you said..."last minute shift" what an easy out for a BSer.
3. True...but in no way does that indicate construction of one specific project. First off, WDW is huge in comparison and has many other things that are on the board in one form or another. Perhaps, reclamation of PI/west side and fleshing out of animal kingdom are the highest priorities? Probably because they should be. Any fool can see that. Perhaps the Avatarland project is a definite and they are worried about lukewarm reception and they want someone they trust to pull it off? No?
And again, something you skated over...but you MUST know is true...transfers don't always make complete "1+1" sense.
4. Immediate yes...after a very bad performance for years. Not true?
Lasting? 8 months. We would think that this will hold...that makes sense. But to say it is set is too far.
5. True...that would be the case. Exactly why I and many dont want it. Not because of the project...love big projects...because its copied, tired, and low rent. No imagination... Assembly line. And....thats to say nothing of Cars...which peddles the cheapest of low quality junk based on - of all people - Larry the Cable Guy. You want that in WDW? Your call.
6. I'm exactly opposite...why spend more? Why take on unnecessary capital expenditure if there is no bump to be had? Not possible, huh?
And cars is the right thing? I think your giving Carsland the wrong credit (if not too much)...
Disneyland clientele is far more discerning/ sophisticated than WDW. I don't believe that's ever been in dispute...
But they love Disney parks...and they were dying for a reason to embrace DCA...50 years of one park...they never had an EPCOT or a blizzard beach or a boardwalk...
I can only imagine how offensive cheap DCA was to them. They had a right to be offended and withold support.
But they also have a reason to embrace the fix...just saying.

And that's assuming that Disney is sure there is a "bump" to be had...that's a big guesstimate.
There is always a cap. Nothing grows forever...ask Apple.
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:35 PM   #28
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I don't want to duplicate too much from the other thread, but a few things.

Somebody pointed out that Cars wasn't the most popular of Pixar's films. This is true, but it did very well in merchandise sales, particularly to boys, where Disney has often struggled. So, Presto!, Cars got the first sequel other than Toy Story once that floodgate was opened, and Cars got a mini land in DCA.

As for how likely this is to happen, I'd have to say it is closer to 80% than 20%. But I also don't see that as any kind of proof that things are changing in Orlando, that they are finally willing to go all out. The reality is the new FL isn't bringing people in like they hoped, and they have to do something. Cut and pasting Cars Land (after a little trimming here and there) is the cheaper, easier way to go, which falls right in line with what we would expect.

The only thing that gives me pause is that some rumors say it is Iger and Lasseter that would prefer Star Wars or something else. Lasseter just because he thinks something different is a better strategy, and Iger because he wants to get some return on his $4 billion.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:12 PM   #29
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I'm going to agree with Bom Noite over DRDISNEYMD - I hope she won't rescind my Captain America status. I think the Carsland is a smart move for Disney, and it makes a lot of sense, not just cents.

1) Cars is HUGELY popular amongst young boys 3-10 age group. HUGE. There quite a few girls (including my daughter) that like it too.
2) Disney will continue to leverage CARS merch and products. I've said it before about Harry Potter, I LOVE the Harry Potter books, but without new PRODUCT coming out, regardless of how good the books are, the popularity will fade. CARS on the other hand can continue to thrive (look at the - likely awful - PLANES coming out this summer). It IS a bigger competitor to Universal.
3) Regardless of what Disney fanatics may think, the majority of people don't spend time at BOTH WDW and DLR. A Carsland will be new to the vast majority of people.
4) They transferred the lead Imagineer of Carsland to DHS. Why would they do that?
5) I agree Star Wars is a smarter move for Disney, but possible that is too far out. A Carsland can be built much quicker and cheaper, because they've already done it once. Also, though Star Wars is more popular than Cars, Cars is more popular than Avatar - at least for Disney's demographic.
6) And I agree Al Lutz is one of the more reliable Disney rumor sources, though I would put him at only around 50/50.

So, my feeling is while it's not a sure thing - lots of signs are pointing to it.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:49 PM   #30
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I'm going to agree with Bom Noite over DRDISNEYMD - I hope she won't rescind my Captain America status. I think the Carsland is a smart move for Disney, and it makes a lot of sense, not just cents.
I agree with everything Pete, but, I tried to argue it was the "SAFE" move - not the "SMART" move. Now, I will go off and defend my argument again (not related to your post Pete!):

Semantics? Maybe - I am not sure what the smart move is , but, I do think this is Safer and with less risk (for the decision makers) then others I have heard.

Time will tell who is right and who is wrong. But, am confident my theories are correct. Why: Logic wins 99.9 of the time.

Many have argued OPINION in this argument. None of us make the decision. My arguments are what a I believe the Stock Holding exec would do.

The entire "It should be Anaheim only sentiment" is ridiculous fodder that Iger looks past with no second thought! He will move this thing to Orlando, Paris, Hong Kong, China and four cities in Ecuador if he thinks it will be profitable! If you owned Disney Stock you would fire him if he did any less!

Do you honestly think a guy who makes 40 Million and wants to make 50 Million thinks "Carsland should be West Coast only?" No, he thinks can I got a potential winner here! Can it make me 5 more million if we took this east, to China, to Paris, to Tokyo?

While I love the DisBoards, the lunacy sometimes escapes me. Think like a guy who makes 40 Million and wants to make 50 Million. Not a guy who makes 40K and wants to make 50K while a bluebird is on his shoulder.

Trust me, there are more Orlando Execs sipping their morning coffee smiling and agreeing with me then many others here.

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