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Old 01-24-2013, 10:33 AM   #16
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Does this mean that girls will finally have to register for the draft at 18 as well? How do people feel about their daughters and sisters and nieces being drafted into service if heaven forbid the draft is instituted?
I'm not in favor of anyone having to register for the draft.

But in any event, this announcement doesn't affect draft registration.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:33 AM   #17
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I'm not sure I understand the comment - do you think it's easier for men to withstand torture more than women???
Not the pp, but no I don't think its easier for men to withstand it; but it is hard to think about the things they would do to a woman.

I also wonder what many of our men in the military think about this. Would they feel "protective" of the women? How would that translate to the women being on the front lines?

I do believe that the women in the military are just as capable as any of the men. I have no doubt they have the ability. But, I just wonder about it from many of the men's pov.

While I don't necessarily think a woman NEEDS protecting anymore than a man; I do know men (and many that are military) that feel they do.

I remember a Sociology prof. talking about this and about how many men in the south are in the military and this was a point that he brought up (not to make it a north vs. south discussion, but he just meant that many southern men have been brought up to protect the women around them.). He wasn't being sexist nor was he giving his own opinion so much as just stating that the men may indeed feel the need to protect a woman and put himself or others in danger by giving that protection.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:36 AM   #18
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My concern with it would be if they were taken as POW's. These prisoners are tortured, and I can't imagine the things that would be done to these women if they were POW's. I do think that some women are strong enough and capable enough to do the job though.
Women are over there serving and are in fact pretty much doing front line positions pretty similar to what men do. I heard some commentary from military officials yesterday that said this regulation is really just officially acknowledging what the reality is like on the ground, as combat roles are much more blurred than they used to be. So there are plenty of women who could be captured and tortured, etc., already. This ruling doesn't really change that.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:37 AM   #19
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I'm for it. And those worried about sexual assault and the like...military women are already dealing with that at the hands of their fellow military men.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:41 AM   #20
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I'm all for it. However, women should have to pass the same physical test as men. When you are in combat, a woman will have to go over the same terrain as a guy. They won't get to choose the easier route.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:14 AM   #21
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Yes, that's what I was referring to. I was talking to my Mom about it yesterday. I do not think that men could necessarily handle torture better, but I doubt that the sexual aspect is there with men, as well as pregnancy risks.
I don't know, but considering that U.S. soldiers (both male and female) sexually assaulted POWs held by American armed forces at Abu Graib (and we're supposed to be the "good and disciplined military"), I'm not sure it's that far out of the realm of logic that male POWs are also subjected to sexual assault when taken prisoners by opposing forces.

As we all know, sexual assault is not about sex, it's about power (and abusing that power), and so I don't think the gender of the POW is necessarily relevant. It just psychologically hurts more to think about it happening to women because, as a society, we try to ignore that male sexual assaults also takes place.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:24 AM   #22
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I remember a Sociology prof. talking about this and about how many men in the south are in the military and this was a point that he brought up (not to make it a north vs. south discussion, but he just meant that many southern men have been brought up to protect the women around them.). He wasn't being sexist nor was he giving his own opinion so much as just stating that the men may indeed feel the need to protect a woman and put himself or others in danger by giving that protection.

When I was in the military a gazillion years ago, they were in the early stages of allowing women to go airborne. They had the exact same concerns then. During training, the instructors were on the lookout for men who felt the need to step in. Right at the beginning, whenever someone tried to step in and help the instructor was there loudly proclaiming that bullets didn't say male or female on them, so step back, because if I couldn't do it on my own I had no business being there. Within a day or two, the "southern gentlemen" got over it and I was just one of the guys.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:31 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by gottaluvPluto View Post
I'm all for it. However, women should have to pass the same physical test as men. When you are in combat, a woman will have to go over the same terrain as a guy. They won't get to choose the easier route.
That is exactly how I feel because right now women have different standards in the Physical Fitness aspect for example their required pushups are far less than a male but if they can handle it both physically and mentally have at it !!
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:58 AM   #24
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When I was in the military a gazillion years ago, they were in the early stages of allowing women to go airborne. They had the exact same concerns then. During training, the instructors were on the lookout for men who felt the need to step in. Right at the beginning, whenever someone tried to step in and help the instructor was there loudly proclaiming that bullets didn't say male or female on them, so step back, because if I couldn't do it on my own I had no business being there. Within a day or two, the "southern gentlemen" got over it and I was just one of the guys.
So it is addressed in their training. That's good to know. I mean I figured that if it wasn't, it soon would be but just didn't know it was already there.
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:21 PM   #25
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This is going to sound sexist, but frankly I don't support the idea of women on the frontline. As much as I respect the power of women and the ideals of equality, in war our enemies have no respect for anything. Have we forgotten our chief opponents today have some of the most sexist and brutal attitudes toward women? A woman is stoned to death for adultery because she was raped. Women are to be hidden away behind veils and sold into marriage at the whim of their father.

Sure men may be sexually abused as well (and have been by the mob), but they aren't seen first and foremost as playthings of men.

There's a long brutal history of women in warfare and how they were treated. It is a very ugly history. I don't relish my nieces being forced to repeat that. There's a reason Society put these presumptions that women and children were "protected people" during war. We were too sickened by the horrific things done to these people.

There are a lot of important roles in the military. Not every one has to be treated equally. War is not fought politely or with an inherent respect for humanity. Not unless both opponents share the same core values and even then humanity often gets lost in the brutality of fighting.
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:24 PM   #26
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So it is addressed in their training. That's good to know. I mean I figured that if it wasn't, it soon would be but just didn't know it was already there.
Oh yeah, this was in the 70's so the point is, they wanted well trained soldiers. They didn't put a difference on it. I was also held to the same physical standards as far as push ups, pull ups, running etc...
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:27 PM   #27
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This is going to sound sexist, but frankly I don't support the idea of women on the frontline. As much as I respect the power of women and the ideals of equality, in war our enemies have no respect for anything. Have we forgotten our chief opponents today have some of the most sexist and brutal attitudes toward women? A woman is stoned to death for adultery because she was raped. Women are to be hidden away behind veils and sold into marriage at the whim of their father.

Sure men may be sexually abused as well (and have been by the mob), but they aren't seen first and foremost as playthings of men.

There's a long brutal history of women in warfare and how they were treated. It is a very ugly history. I don't relish my nieces being forced to repeat that. There's a reason Society put these presumptions that women and children were "protected people" during war. We were too sickened by the horrific things done to these people.

There are a lot of important roles in the military. Not every one has to be treated equally. War is not fought politely or with an inherent respect for humanity. Not unless both opponents share the same core values and even then humanity often gets lost in the brutality of fighting.
If we all had the same core values or had the same humanity, there wouldn't be war.

This decision is pure grandstanding in my opinion. We are drawing down in wars now and cutting infantry right and left. However, women already fire weapons and die in the heat of battle. That is combat whether people believe it or not. Women are fighter pilots and have already been held as POWs before.

This new allowance of women to combat will take several years to actually introduce into the military with a full on plan.

My husband takes men and women into battle. He trains them all the same because in the end bullets and blood can be shed from both sexes.
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:29 PM   #28
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This is going to sound sexist, but frankly I don't support the idea of women on the frontline. As much as I respect the power of women and the ideals of equality, in war our enemies have no respect for anything. Have we forgotten our chief opponents today have some of the most sexist and brutal attitudes toward women? A woman is stoned to death for adultery because she was raped. Women are to be hidden away behind veils and sold into marriage at the whim of their father.

Sure men may be sexually abused as well (and have been by the mob), but they aren't seen first and foremost as playthings of men.

There's a long brutal history of women in warfare and how they were treated. It is a very ugly history. I don't relish my nieces being forced to repeat that. There's a reason Society put these presumptions that women and children were "protected people" during war. We were too sickened by the horrific things done to these people.

There are a lot of important roles in the military. Not every one has to be treated equally. War is not fought politely or with an inherent respect for humanity. Not unless both opponents share the same core values and even then humanity often gets lost in the brutality of fighting.

Sure, there are a lot of roles in the military. And combat roles are one of them. Women should be allowed to make their own decisions. Some (such as myself) are just looking for short stints in the service. I chose it as a way to pay for college. Some are looking for full careers and leadership roles. For those people combat is necessary.
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:31 PM   #29
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The military is poised to lift the ban on women serving as full-fledged combat infantry. The training for them would remain exactly the same training requirements as the men have to go through, and women would be taken into those units on a volunteer basis.

Your thoughts?

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If they meet the requirments then more power to them. I don't have a problem with it.
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:37 PM   #30
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If we all had the same core values or had the same humanity, there wouldn't be war.

This decision is pure grandstanding in my opinion. We are drawing down in wars now and cutting infantry right and left. However, women already fire weapons and die in the heat of battle. That is combat whether people believe it or not. Women are fighter pilots and have already been held as POWs before.

This new allowance of women to combat will take several years to actually introduce into the military with a full on plan.

My husband takes men and women into battle. He trains them all the same because in the end bullets and blood can be shed from both sexes.
That's what I saw yesterday in some talk show. That women already fight and die in combat, and it has been happening for a while. They were just not aknowleged for it. That was just unfair, imo.
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