Disney Information Station Logo

Go Back   The DIS Discussion Forums - DISboards.com > Disney Trip Planning Forums > disABILITIES!
Find Hotel Specials & DIScounts
 
facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS UpdatesDIS email updates
Register Chat FAQ Tickers Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read





Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-20-2013, 04:36 PM   #106
ThreeBeans
Now with FOUR Beans
 
ThreeBeans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 813

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stitch407 View Post
If the abuse is by the minority, then why do so many people complain about it? I have never had a problem when standing in line. I have never seen anyone I thought was abusing the system, but I go to the parks a lot and people on occassion ask me about it, but since I don't use a GAC, I don't know how it works.

I also see a lot of people complain about overseas tour groups, and I have never had a problem with them either.

I have only ever witnessed a few particular people (definitely from America) making trouble for themselves, and they have always been stopped by security.

I feel like either people are blowing the situation out of porportion, or it's being the problem is being ignored by people who could actually do something about the situation.
I think it's human nature. When something unpleasant happens or we perceive in some way that we are being mistreated, that's what sticks in our craw. I might drive the same 10 miles of highway to work on autopilot every morning, but the trip I'll remember is the one where that yahoo cut me off! Yeah! That guy! DANGEROUS ROAD! I take my life in my hands every morning! Unreal!

See what I mean? :-P
__________________
1991, 1997, 1998, 2003, 20011, 20011
2013: Apr 30-May 8 with all FOUR kids, 8,7, 5 and 1 :-) OKW

ThreeBeans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 04:38 PM   #107
Brian_WDW74
Theme Parks Co-Moderator
Oh, I'm detecting nuttiness.
 
Brian_WDW74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,434
DISboards Moderator

I've moved this thread to the disABILITIES! board.
__________________
*Brian*

Brian_WDW74 is offline   Reply With Quote
|
The DIS
Register to remove

Join Date: 1997
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,000,000
Old 01-20-2013, 04:40 PM   #108
stargazertechie
Toy Story Midway Maniac
 
stargazertechie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,959

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeBeans View Post
Federal law is not going to change over the abuse of GAC cards.

What is the Segway situation? That's a story I haven't heard!
There was a class action suit against Disney because folks weren't allowed to use Segways or other two-wheeled motorized vehicles as mobility aids. Disney said it was not safe to allow Segways to be used as mobility aids. It went back and forth through appeals several times.

In the end the Department of Justice sided with Disney:
http://www.wdwinfo.com/news/General_...on_Segways.htm
__________________
14 Trips total including POFQ, ASMU, CBR, AKL, WL, POP, and a trip to Disneyland!

Upcoming trip- WDW Trip #14. BCV. 6/13.

Thinking about buying pins from ebay and getting into pin trading? PLEASE READ THIS FIRST!
stargazertechie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 04:56 PM   #109
ThreeBeans
Now with FOUR Beans
 
ThreeBeans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 813

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazertechie View Post
There was a class action suit against Disney because folks weren't allowed to use Segways or other two-wheeled motorized vehicles as mobility aids. Disney said it was not safe to allow Segways to be used as mobility aids. It went back and forth through appeals several times.

In the end the Department of Justice sided with Disney:
http://www.wdwinfo.com/news/General_...on_Segways.htm
Oh wow. Yeah, I can definitely see Disney's POV on that. Segways can be precarious for a typically abled person, let alone a person with perhaps mobility or balance issues. Can you imagine getting stuck in one of the rope dropes trying to stay upright on a Segway
__________________
1991, 1997, 1998, 2003, 20011, 20011
2013: Apr 30-May 8 with all FOUR kids, 8,7, 5 and 1 :-) OKW

ThreeBeans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 05:07 PM   #110
Piper
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,852

This would not work because people have reported that they or family members went to the doctor and got a note when they had no disability. Unfortunately, there are dishonest physicians out there!!!! Also, why should I have to pay another copay to see my doctor when I want to go to WDW--I have a team of doctors and they get enough of my money as it is. And NO they wouldn't just write a letter without my coming in to see them.
Piper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 05:26 PM   #111
toocherie

By the way, the foregoing is not LEGAL advice
I'm also easy--it says so on all the bathroom walls
 
toocherie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,323

Quote:
Originally Posted by clanmcculloch View Post
I saw it. I really wish people (in this case disunplugged, not you) wouldn't bring up topics when nothings actually been published about how the subject at hand is going to work. They're stirring up controversy just for the sake of doing it. The whole discussion is going to become one huge bash against those of use who need GACs rather than any kind of real discussion on the changes to come or even how they really work today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmwade77 View Post
It's articles like this that make it hard on those of us who truly need the GAC.

Thinking about it more and more, I would ask that the article be pulled down or at bare minimum reworded to not make people think that the GACs provide faster access, they don't and those of us that need them know that.

I agree with the quoted users that the tone and message of this blog is negative and should at least be modified. I know the mods of this forum don't control the blog but who can we contact about our concerns? I read the blog before I read this thread, but felt those concerns before finding this thread (and was relieved to know I wasn't the only one). Although I am sure GAC abuse does occur (and I am on the side that would have no problem presenting evidence of a disability even though the ADA currently prohibits that) I am not sure that abuse is as "rampant" as implied in the blog. At the very least the DisUnplugged people should allow a rebuttal blog from someone who does use a GAC to set the record straight. Otherwise, I think this blog just feeds into that population that thinks everyone who uses a GAC is a cheater.
__________________

toocherie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 05:52 PM   #112
SueM in MN
It's like combining the teacups with a roller coaster

 
SueM in MN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Twin Cities area,Minnesota,USA
Posts: 30,123
DISboards Moderator

I am going to combine this with an existing thread about the blog that brought this discussion up.
The background and further information is in that thread.

But, just a few things -
In many states, special security prescription pads are only use for schedule 2 and 3 drugs. With the use of electronic health records, many written prescriptions are going away. Not all security prescription pads are exactly the same, so CMs would not necessarily be able to recognize them.

A GAC is not something that a doctor can order - WDW or any other facility or organization has no requirement to follow the doctor's order. I have seen doctors orders people have had their doctor write - most said thing like "my patient can't wait in lines. Please expidate entry without waiting."

As piper mentioned, much of the actual abuse occurs when people actually got a note from their doctor when they did not have a disability - and the doctor knew they did not have one (not just where someone looks and says, "I think this person is abusing.")

In the early days of this board, many people were bringing doctors letters or prescriptions, which they were charged for. The patient had to pick up the charge because insurance won't - it would actually be insurance fraud to bill insurance for just writing a letter or prescription for something that doesn't require one. (Or for a visit that is not medically necessary).

Most GACs are actually for things like avoiding stairs, front row seating in shows, using a stroller as a wheelchair - not what people think is happening.

It would be discriminatory to require a GAC or a doctors letter to bring a wheelchair or othe mobility device in lines. The ADA does say that people cannot be required to provide proof of disability for things like that.

Many DIS posters believe that anyone using a wheelchair or ECV goes to the front of lines. This is not true at all - most attractions are accessible by using the regular line and waiting with all the other guests.
__________________
SueM in MN
Moderator of disABILITIES
Link to disABILITIES FAQs thread

Spaceship Earth: We are all passengers together.
Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans......John Lennon
Be a rainbow in someone else's cloud. Dr. Maya Angelou
trip report link in Memory of eternaldisneyfan, who lived these words: Some people are always grumbling because roses have thorns. I am thankful that thorns have roses. Alphonse Karr
SueM in MN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 06:19 PM   #113
SueM in MN
It's like combining the teacups with a roller coaster

 
SueM in MN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Twin Cities area,Minnesota,USA
Posts: 30,123
DISboards Moderator

Quote:
Originally Posted by toocherie View Post
I agree with the quoted users that the tone and message of this blog is negative and should at least be modified. I know the mods of this forum don't control the blog but who can we contact about our concerns? I read the blog before I read this thread, but felt those concerns before finding this thread (and was relieved to know I wasn't the only one). Although I am sure GAC abuse does occur (and I am on the side that would have no problem presenting evidence of a disability even though the ADA currently prohibits that) I am not sure that abuse is as "rampant" as implied in the blog. At the very least the DisUnplugged people should allow a rebuttal blog from someone who does use a GAC to set the record straight. Otherwise, I think this blog just feeds into that population that thinks everyone who uses a GAC is a cheater.
Several people have posted on the comments area of that blog indicating their objections to information in it. The author responded to some of the comments and indicated he was not planning on making any revisions.
My suggestion would be to post comments to the blog if you want to add information.
__________________
SueM in MN
Moderator of disABILITIES
Link to disABILITIES FAQs thread

Spaceship Earth: We are all passengers together.
Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans......John Lennon
Be a rainbow in someone else's cloud. Dr. Maya Angelou
trip report link in Memory of eternaldisneyfan, who lived these words: Some people are always grumbling because roses have thorns. I am thankful that thorns have roses. Alphonse Karr
SueM in MN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 07:06 PM   #114
cmwade77
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,722

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmeck View Post
No, not the end of story. There must be some reason why it was made that way, and if abuse of this is happening, then the law can be changed. ADA was made to prevent discrimination due to a disability. There have been various changes in ADA legislation, so the story has not ended. Just think of the Segway situation!
There is indeed a reason for this. Disneyland used to require proof. Well, an older last was unaware of this. This was back in the days of SAPs, well before the current GAC system. She didn't have problems with walking, but did have some issues maneuvering the loop backs in the queues. She went on Indiana Jones (note this was also before FP). She fell down, it was a very busy day and people literally walked on her. Causing her to have to go to the hospital. I have heard mixed reports as to what happened from there from she went into Critical care to she passed always. But regardless, the courts ordered Disney to sop requiring proof.

The thory at the time was that the SAPs provided a benefit not available to others, so proof could be required. Like I said, the courts deemed that it was equal access.

This is why proof cannot be required. Some other theme parks have tried to continue to require proof, with similar results. So it is now clearly
Spelled out in the law.
cmwade77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 05:56 AM   #115
lovethattink
DIS Veteran
 
lovethattink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,200

Quote:
Originally Posted by SueM in MN View Post
Several people have posted on the comments area of that blog indicating their objections to information in it. The author responded to some of the comments and indicated he was not planning on making any revisions.
My suggestion would be to post comments to the blog if you want to add information.
I did leave a couple posts.

Did the author ever clarifiy exactly what battle he was trying to start?
lovethattink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 06:58 AM   #116
Schmeck
Funny thing is now my 17 year old naps almost every day and so do I!

 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Massachusetts Strong!
Posts: 8,466

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeBeans View Post
Federal law is not going to change over the abuse of GAC cards.

What is the Segway situation? That's a story I haven't heard!
Federal law may not change, but the GAC may change. Disney does not need to offer the GAC, and if it can come up with another way to provide a chance for equal access it can get rid of the GAC if it wants to.

As far as I can find, there is no part of the ADA that states that if someone can't wait in a line then they have to be given immediate or expedited access. Actually, Sec 12182(b)(1)(A)(ii) addresses the exact opposite. It can be deemed illegal to offer a service to the disabled that is not offered to the general public.
__________________
July '13 - CBR
Mar '13 - PC Aug '12 - PC (Best Trip Ever!)
Aug '10 - PC June '08 - ASMo (school trip)
Aug '05 - BC Aug '04 - PC, AKL
Oct '02 - AKL, POR May '99 - CBR
May '96 - CBR Dec '80 - offsite
Schmeck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 07:47 AM   #117
wheels on fire
Mouseketeer
 
wheels on fire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 75

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stitch407 View Post
This may belong in a different thread (?)

There has been a lot of fuss over GAC abuse, and I know that people who really need it are suffering the most from the abuse. I had an idea that all theme parks could utilize to help cut down on abusers, but it may be a stupid idea, so no one yell at me if it was an idiotic idea. Just politely tell me.

I saw this as a reason why castmembers can't ask for proof of a disability:

"According to the Americans with Disabilities Act, legally Disney cannot ask anyone what their disability is. Even if they were able to though, CM’s are not doctors or medical personnel and couldn’t be expected to know or evaluate conditions that guests might have, nor should they. If they asked and a guest told them they had Lupus, (for example) and the CM never heard of it, would they then have to then explain what that is and how it effects them? And how much would it really help matters? If someone is going to abuse a GAC card, if they need to make up something to tell a CM they would."

I understand castmembers not being physcians, but they could recognize special paper that only a physician would have. I know when you need a schedule 2 or 3 drug, the prescription must be on special paper. If the use of this paper or something similiar could be extended to being used for proof needing a GAC, then all the castmember would need to do is verify the paper, not the disability. I know some doctors might abuse the system, but I would think very few would if abuse of it would get them in trouble, like the abuse of prescribing such drugs incorrectly would get them in trouble.

I think they are sometimes called Security Prescription Pads. It would be he same as a castmember recognizing a fake bill, which anyone with a bit of instruction can do.

The doctor could write a note saying the needed a GAC on the paper, and the paper being legitimate would be the verification.

I think it might cut down on people abusing the system, if everyone had to go and ask their doctor for the special note, but I would think or hope that anyone with a real need for one wouldn't mind doing so, if that meant that people abusing the system couldn't anymore.

The only thing is I don't know if security prescription pads are allowed to be used in this way, and I imagine if they are not, getting the medical community to agree to allowing it might be impossible.

Then what about us coming from different country's as we not have same forms and be hard for cm to recognise from dozens of different country's that come.what is legitimate and what is not
wheels on fire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 02:26 PM   #118
Talking Hands
|,,|/ DEAF DISNEY LOVER
Mom to 2 beautiful young ladies
SIGNS TO OLDIES ON THE RADIO
 
Talking Hands's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Pooh's Thoughtful Place AKA SE Fla
Posts: 10,110

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stitch407 View Post
If the abuse is by the minority, then why do so many people complain about it? I have never had a problem when standing in line. I have never seen anyone I thought was abusing the system, but I go to the parks a lot and people on occassion ask me about it, but since I don't use a GAC, I don't know how it works.

I also see a lot of people complain about overseas tour groups, and I have never had a problem with them either.

I have only ever witnessed a few particular people (definitely from America) making trouble for themselves, and they have always been stopped by security.

I feel like either people are blowing the situation out of porportion, or the problem is being ignored by people who could actually do something about the situation.
I think abuse can be a perception. I use a powered wheelchair in the parks due to mobility issues. You may see me out of that PWC at times as I do need to walk some to avoid getting stiff. I may be out with my grandson walking and later be back in my PWC.
I also have a hearing loss but my speech is excellent as are my speech reading skills. I can easily speak 1 to 1 with a person but when there is background noise like music in a show I miss a lot of the language so I use and interpreter.
Some people seeing me might think I am an abuser but there is no way I could walk through the parks all day not could I understand a show without captioning or an interpreter.
Many people complain because they perceive abuse even when a person has a legitimate reason for a GAC. And then there are the abusers however few.
__________________

Talking Hands
|,,|/ DEAF Disney Lover
Talking Hands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 03:07 PM   #119
brown1442
Mouseketeer
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 196

It seems anytime anyone does anything nice there will always be people who find a way to take advantage of it. Its a shame but there's no stopping it. All I know is Disney has done an AMAZING job making magical vacations possible for my family with two special needs children. The GACs have met our needs beautifully and CMs have bent over backwards to make our experience go smoothly. I thank Disney from the bottom of my heart for that and I pray that nothing changes before or next trip.
brown1442 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 06:01 PM   #120
3Leafs
DIS Veteran
 
3Leafs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,275

Quote:
Originally Posted by brown1442 View Post
It seems anytime anyone does anything nice there will always be people who find a way to take advantage of it. Its a shame but there's no stopping it. All I know is Disney has done an AMAZING job making magical vacations possible for my family with two special needs children. The GACs have met our needs beautifully and CMs have bent over backwards to make our experience go smoothly. I thank Disney from the bottom of my heart for that and I pray that nothing changes before or next trip.
I couldn't agree with you more. I know my autistic son is very afraid of the dark. Thanks to our pass we are allowed to skip some sections of rides and we also are able to sit near an exit at a show so if we have to leave we won't disrupt others. I am so grateful for the GAC. Otherwise we wouldn't be able to enjoy Disney as much as we do..
__________________
As aways ~ Teresa
3Leafs is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS Updates
GET OUR DIS UPDATES DELIVERED BY EMAIL



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:15 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Copyright © 1997-2014, Werner Technologies, LLC. All Rights Reserved.

You Rated this Thread: