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Old 01-19-2013, 04:18 PM   #421
leahjade
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I think the poor and welfare people are easy targets.
After working in a government assistance office for a year, I think there is more abuse than anyone realizes. And it's not only abuse, it's learning to work the system, and it's that the whole system is broken! Case in point, talking to my friend yesterday who has her two grandkids living with her because her son is a drug addict. My friend's income is six figures yet she gets food stamps, free medical care and free meals for the kids (not to mention the son who is getting welfare, food stamps, apartment and utility assistance). She said "I feel guilty talking money from the government to raise my own grandkids but hey if they want to give it, I'll take it."
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Old 01-19-2013, 04:34 PM   #422
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What am I missing with the payroll tax increase?

sorry, I meant to start a new thread.

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Old 01-19-2013, 05:26 PM   #423
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Originally Posted by leahjade View Post
After working in a government assistance office for a year, I think there is more abuse than anyone realizes. And it's not only abuse, it's learning to work the system, and it's that the whole system is broken! Case in point, talking to my friend yesterday who has her two grandkids living with her because her son is a drug addict. My friend's income is six figures yet she gets food stamps, free medical care and free meals for the kids (not to mention the son who is getting welfare, food stamps, apartment and utility assistance). She said "I feel guilty talking money from the government to raise my own grandkids but hey if they want to give it, I'll take it."
They probably give her food stamps and free medical care because she was willing to take the kids instead of a foster family. If a foster family had to take the kids in, they would get a cash payment, food stamps, and medical care along with paying to send the kids to daycare or after school care. So, in the eyes of the government...they're saving money.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:33 PM   #424
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I am still waiting for the proof that welfare mothers have less kids than the American woman that was claimed by a poster. She posted TANF and that is not all that is welfare.

Yes EITC is welfare since you are getting money to raise your kids. SSI is also a welfare program. SSDI is the insurance that working people get if they become disabled. SSI and SSDI are two different programs.
Considering that I pay a pretty good chunk of change into SSI, as I'm sure most people do, I don't think I will say that I'm "on welfare" if I live to retire and receive a check.

I wonder if the people who have paid into SSI their entire lives refuse to cash their checks or donate them to charity? Surely they wouldn't accept welfare!

EITC is debatable, but children are an exemption for everyone who has a child and files taxes. So, are all tax exemptions welfare?
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:49 PM   #425
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I know I'm tired but you are saying ssi is "welfare" right? Not the regular social security.

So retirement and collecting aren't the concern.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:07 PM   #426
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Originally Posted by eliza61 View Post
what proof are you waiting for? I told you where i found the information go read. if you google the question you will get 2. I'm assuming htat those folks rounded up as it's pretty weird to say 0.8 of a child. I claimed the number is 1.8 per household.
I did consider money and food stamps only. I did not considered ssi sorry.

What you want me to go count them personally? where's the proof that it's not that number. Outside of fox news? Ok, is this acceptable?

Myth: Welfare gives mothers an economic incentive to have more children.

Fact: Studies have not found a correlation between size of welfare benefits and families

The average AFDC family is virtually the same size as the average American family. Of all welfare families, 73.9 percent have two children or less. (3) Of all American families with children, this figure is 79.1 percent. (4) (Families without children are not qualified for welfare, even though they may need it, so there are conceptual problems with adding childless families to either side of this comparison

This on is from the usda.

Food stamp households have little income. Only
9 percent are above the poverty line, while 40
percent have incomes at or below half the
poverty line. The typical food stamp household
had gross income of $558 per month and
received a monthly food stamp benefit of $169.
Food stamp households possess few resources.
The average food stamp household possesses
only about $92 in countable resources (including
vehicles, checking and savings accounts, and
other savings).
Most food stamp households are small. The
average food stamp household size was 2.4, but
varied considerably by household composition.
Households with children were relatively large,
averaging 3.4 members. Households with elderly
members tended to be smaller, with an average
size of 1.3 people.


Natural assumption is that one of the 3.4 members is not a child so that brings the number of children down to 2.4

I did forget to include SSI though. I'll go play and see what the family size is for that but some thing tells me you be bitterly disappointed that you won't be able to hold onto the ghetto queen myth there either.
That is more than 1.8, as you originally claimed. I made no claims just asked for proof as I knew the 1.8 was incorrect. The real number is in line with the average American woman.

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Originally Posted by Granny square View Post
I know I'm tired but you are saying ssi is "welfare" right? Not the regular social security.

So retirement and collecting aren't the concern.
Correct.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:34 PM   #427
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You're right about the SSI. I was thinking "Social Security Income" when it's Supplemental Security Income. So, yes, I agree it's a welfare program.

I still don't consider tax exemptions (which is what EITC is) to be welfare. If a single mother of 2 children makes 40k per year and is eligible to claim EITC, why wouldn't she? I'm sure most would, and I wouldn't consider them to be on welfare.

It's funny how people focus on the "welfare queens" when corporate welfare is the biggest culprit of all. That's the way they want it though....if you stay focused on the woman in front of you using a food stamp card, you won't notice the big shots are the real crooks.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:37 PM   #428
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Originally Posted by ilovemk76 View Post
That is more than 1.8, as you originally claimed. I made no claims just asked for proof as I knew the 1.8 was incorrect. The real number is in line with the average American woman.
Since you are so big on statistics, the current "average American woman" has 1.9 children. I don't know what you are thinking it is, since you seem to think the number is closer to 2.4 than 1.8. But if you are going to put yourself out as someone who's so big on "proof", then at least be sure to put the right data out there yourself.

Here's my source: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_05.pdf
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:38 PM   #429
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Ok, I was confusing myself. .

Regarding the numbers in the welfare children, I would think that the 2.4 would really be less because a reasonable portion of welfare families has two parents. You can't just assume one. But that is just experience speaking and not official statistical info.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:41 PM   #430
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Historically, the “typical” cash welfare family has been headed by a single parent (usually themother) with one or two children. The single parent has also typically been unemployed.

That's from http://www.nationalaglawcenter.org/a...rs/RL32760.pdf

That's only considering families who receive cash benefits (true welfare IMO) but if those families consist of "one or two children" I would imagine that families who are receiving some other type of benefit, but not qualifying for cash, would not be MORE.

Who knows though. You have to define what "welfare" is, and if you're including EITC then who knows how many other programs or people should be included in the count.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:42 PM   #431
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Originally Posted by MomToOne View Post
Since you are so big on statistics, the current "average American woman" has 1.9 children. I don't know what you are thinking it is, since you seem to think the number is closer to 2.4 than 1.8. But if you are going to put yourself out as someone who's so big on "proof", then at least be sure to put the right data out there yourself.

Here's my source: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_05.pdf
Apparently if a woman receives assistance then she isn't included in the count of the "average american woman" either!
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:54 PM   #432
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Originally Posted by Granny square View Post
Regarding the numbers in the welfare children, I would think that the 2.4 would really be less because a reasonable portion of welfare families has two parents. You can't just assume one. But that is just experience speaking and not official statistical info.
I have data to help - there are actually more adults than children receiving foodstamps. Here's my data: http://www.fns.usda.gov/ora/menu/Pub...cteristics.pdf

So, while many love to think that "welfare" users are all Welfare Queens with 10 kids, it's just not the truth. I think we've put enough data out there now to debunk that.

Last edited by MomToOne; 01-19-2013 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:27 PM   #433
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Originally Posted by leahjade View Post
Case in point, talking to my friend yesterday who has her two grandkids living with her because her son is a drug addict. My friend's income is six figures yet she gets food stamps, free medical care and free meals for the kids (not to mention the son who is getting welfare, food stamps, apartment and utility assistance). She said "I feel guilty talking money from the government to raise my own grandkids but hey if they want to give it, I'll take it."
Then the grandmother has either a subsidized guardianship or a kinship foster care relationship, granted by a court. She's helping out by stepping up, I don't have a problem with that - it's 1000% better for the kids than being handed over to strangers. Regular foster parent would get the payments - as they should - why not her? It's not "abusing" the system, it's setting up a system that will actually serve the children - it's eliminating barriers that could cause extended family to not take them in when needed.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:09 PM   #434
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Originally Posted by DisneyATlast View Post

I still don't consider tax exemptions (which is what EITC is) to be welfare. If a single mother of 2 children makes 40k per year and is eligible to claim EITC, why wouldn't she? I'm sure most would, and I wouldn't consider them to be on welfare.
The issue with the earned income tax credit is that an individual can receive more from the credit than they ever paid in taxes. So yes, all families take an exemption for themselves and their kids, but for most people this just decreases the amount of taxes they pay in the year. Many people who receive an earned income credit end up with tax income instead of paying any taxes for the year. The credit is not a refund of money they have paid as they pay zero taxes. Tt is a cash payment from the government and is a form of income redistribution which is a form of welfare. I am not saying it is right or wrong, just explaining why it really is a form of public assistance.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:24 PM   #435
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Originally Posted by robsmom View Post
The issue with the earned income tax credit is that an individual can receive more from the credit than they ever paid in taxes. So yes, all families take an exemption for themselves and their kids, but for most people this just decreases the amount of taxes they pay in the year. Many people who receive an earned income credit end up with tax income instead of paying any taxes for the year. The credit is not a refund of money they have paid as they pay zero taxes. Tt is a cash payment from the government and is a form of income redistribution which is a form of welfare. I am not saying it is right or wrong, just explaining why it really is a form of public assistance.
Very well stated. Thanks
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