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Old 01-18-2013, 09:41 PM   #91
mistysue
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Originally Posted by going/again View Post
FYI there is no bonus to being disabled intended or not.
Of course I am not calling being disabled a perk. The lack of tone of voice makes it come out wrong.
For a person who needs a special car or vehicle the fastpass lane may not save time. The bump up in line position is the closest to equal you can get, but that situation is different from a person who has needs concerning the shape of line or proximity to people.

What I was saying is that IF the disability is one that does not effect actual loading, unlimited use of the fastpass lane is in itself a perk that people gain- I am not calling being disabled a perk, I am not wishing it on anybody, but GAC as fastpass is a perk which is why there are people who exploit it and try to take advantage.
Not being able to touch people is not made fair by skipping a one hour line. I'm also not trying to argue whose life is harder, everybody has things to deal with, and as much as nobody with a GAC wants it to be assumed they are faking something, there is no reason to assume that somebody without a GAC does need extra magic just as badly as you that day. Skipping the line is not equal treatment, it is preferential treatment that is not available to everyone. It can be fair if you allow some form of schedule. Something like an immediate length of line fastpass, pre-selected time or the stamp idea that limits your fastpass line usage without pulling actual fastpasses would make it as close to equal as you could likely get.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:17 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by going/again View Post
FYI there is no bonus to being disabled intended or not.
I disagree. Sure, it's irritating, and awful at times, but I think the development of creative problem solving skills is a huge bonus. The way I think is also a huge bonus, because I can multitask really well and I think really fast. Are there downsides, absolutely, but I wouldn't say there is no bonus at all.

Sorry for the off-topic.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:51 AM   #93
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misty sue

I would actually say ds social and communication problems are far trickery than his physical issues to overcome.
in one way his wheelchair means people are more accommodating as it s very obvious

yet again in uk the big rides have a card and means you use exit and if wait time is 90 mins you can not ride any of the other say 5 big rides for 90 mins .which i can accept they don`t add a travel time between rides as they aware it takes longer get around the park and you can still do some other inbetween .But this will not work for everyone as parks very crowded so can not have a break

But yet again im still preffering wdw attitude because my physical issues wont stop me riding

in uk you must have a carer ot two ride with any GAc no matter what the problem are ( which kicks **** in my case as my only issue is i can not walk )but they see wheelchair and use H&S to refuse to ride anyway .Why uk i no longer go and so lookin forward t it

lets face it no matter what system in place it can be open to abuse by someone and other people moral code that lie and cheat is more the issue so maybe blame them instead of those that need GAC for what ever reason
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:21 AM   #94
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The problem with requiring GAC users to get FPs is that they often run out before we are able to get there. It's not fair that someone without a a disability could get in the standby line when someone who has a disability cannot always get there early enough to get a FP. Equal access does mean equal at all times.
FP's can run out before people with or without disabilities can get there.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:12 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by blondietink

FP's can run out before people with or without disabilities can get there.
The difference is when the disability actually prevents one from getting there early enough for a FP versus just not getting there in time because of other stuff going on.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:16 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by blondietink

FP's can run out before people with or without disabilities can get there.
But those without disabilities have the options to wait in the stand-by line when this occurs.

Those with disabilities may not, depending on their disability.

So requiring them to get FPs would not provide equal access.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:57 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by cmwade77 View Post
But those without disabilities have the options to wait in the stand-by line when this occurs.

Those with disabilities may not, depending on their disability.

So requiring them to get FPs would not provide equal access.
If it's TSM, Soarin', or other mainliners, unless you get there early in the stand by line, you will need a FP. At least, we would. Not many of us, period, wants to wait in a line that is 1hr. plus long. I am able bodied, per se, but cannot stand long periods of time. I know there are plenty like me, also for various other reasons, plus, to me if I have to wait that long for *any* attraction, I *won't* wait.

That's why getting to the parks early is almost a must. If you get to the parks on opening, you can usually get a FP, even if you are a little slower getting to the attraction. They are usually there until at least 10:00 - 10:30, (or later) unless it's a super busy day (or holidays, etc. - we avoid these).

So, I would say that most FP's are equal access to all. And in most cases, unless you are alone, one in a party can go ahead and get the FP's.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:15 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheels on fire View Post
misty sue

I would actually say ds social and communication problems are far trickery than his physical issues to overcome.
in one way his wheelchair means people are more accommodating as it s very obvious

yet again in uk the big rides have a card and means you use exit and if wait time is 90 mins you can not ride any of the other say 5 big rides for 90 mins .which i can accept they don`t add a travel time between rides as they aware it takes longer get around the park and you can still do some other inbetween .But this will not work for everyone as parks very crowded so can not have a break

But yet again im still preffering wdw attitude because my physical issues wont stop me riding

in uk you must have a carer ot two ride with any GAc no matter what the problem are ( which kicks **** in my case as my only issue is i can not walk )but they see wheelchair and use H&S to refuse to ride anyway .Why uk i no longer go and so lookin forward t it

lets face it no matter what system in place it can be open to abuse by someone and other people moral code that lie and cheat is more the issue so maybe blame them instead of those that need GAC for what ever reason
I have been to Disneyland Paris twice and the biggest difference between it an WDW is that WDW is much more accessible.
Most lines at WDW are accessible.
Most lines at DL Paris park are not (which is why they give exit passes - it is the only way in). The Studio part at Paris is quite accessible and has mostly mainstream lines.
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Originally Posted by kellyw8863 View Post
The difference is when the disability actually prevents one from getting there early enough for a FP versus just not getting there in time because of other stuff going on.
That is true for many people (us included).

In our situation, I have to physically get DD up and do all the things that are involved in getting ready for the day (bathing, toileting, dressing, brushing teeth, hair, feeding). She can't do any of those things herself.
And because we are away from home and don't have all of her familiar equipment and bathroom designed for her needs, most of the things take a lot longer or take 2 people.
Plus, the time difference means everything is one hour earlier for us in Florida.
If we try to get DD up and ready without enough rest, she may only last a few hours in the park. And, I'm getting older and it is my vacation too - if DH and I get worn out caring for her, no one will be ble to do anything.
There are also people like her, who because of their medical condition, are really not able to function well early in the morning. Some have issues with things like stiffness, that may get better as the day goes on and they loosen up.
Some people may do well for rope drop because they have more energy early in the day and kind of deteriorate as the day goes on. My DD is the opposite of that and is pretty much non-functional many days in the morning, but gets better as the day goes on.

Combine that with bathroom breaks that take 1/2 hour (or more, if we have to wait for the Companion Restroom) and mealtimes that on average take twice as long as most people and we can't get anywhere near as much done in a day as the average person.

We plan by going at less busy times of the year and by using touringplans.com and easywdw.com to find out which parks are least busy and which part of that park are least busy. That helps us to have shorter waits and we do get Fastpasses and use them when we can. We are not 'slaves' to a touring plan, but knowing a few things helps tremendously and is actually as useful as a GAC is to us.
Doing all that, we only use DD's GAC when we actually need to use it (like insurance).
And, we never know when she will have a seizure or muscle spasms that knock her out and will mean we are done touring for the day (even if we were only in the park for 2 hours).

I don't think it is realistic to go during the busiest times and expect the same accommodation -it is not realistic if you go during Christmas and expect not to wait. But, I have seen people expecting that.
Even during those busy times, it is possible to get in most attractions with a short wait by getting there early. When we have been there when it was busier, we send some of our party to the park at opening so they can go on things.
DD and the rest of our party join later and we realized there would be things they could not do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmwade77 View Post
But those without disabilities have the options to wait in the stand-by line when this occurs.

Those with disabilities may not, depending on their disability.

So requiring them to get FPs would not provide equal access.
That is where it would be helpful if they could issue a Fastpass for the time equal to the current Standby line time.
We have sometimes had that happen and it was helpful for those attractions where DD could just not tolerate the line. One good example was the old Test Track line. She has sensory issues that made that line very difficult for her, with all the crash test things suddenly moving, hitting and banging. It was just too much stimulation if the wait was long.
She also has issues in some lines, not with the waits, but with the other people in lines, especially children who are hanging on or swinging chains or bars. They bang into her wheelchair or her body and she feels trapped (plus has gotten chains banged into her face on more than one occassion). This can happen in narrow lines, but often even more in wider lines, where people are squeezing past to enter and leave the line.

I see some ways that Fastpass + use ( even by OTHER people) might help this.
On our last 2 trips, they were enforcing Fastpass return times. This meant people could no longer get Fastpasses early in the morning to use whenever they felt like it later in the day.

The effects we saw included:
  1. Fastpasses ran out later in the day, so there was still a possibility of getting Fastpasses later in the day.
  2. The Fastpass return time was shorter. For example, previously by 10 am if there were still Fastpasses left, the return time might be 8pm or later and we would have no idea whether or not we could still be in the park to use it.
    What we saw on our last 2 trips were Fastpass return times only an hour or 2 in the future - a much more manageable time for us.
  3. With people who want to ride xxxxx at a certain time able to reserve a Fastpass for that time ahead of time, there should be other times available that had been used in the past by people who took Fastpasses, never intending to use them at that time.

I think Fastpass + will also be useful for those who know what their personal best and worst times will be - they will have a chance to get a Fastpass time that fits better with their condition.
It will also be helpful for people who need a schedule. I've seen many posts over the years where people indicated their child with autism had a breakdown because they came to a ride and could not get on right away. (This is one of the reasons many people whose children have those issues feel a touring plan and using Fastpasses help them more than a GAC - more predictable.)
With Fastpass + there would be a possibility of planning a day around Fastpasses that were already chosen ahead of time. Social stories or schedules would be much more easily made around a schedule that was at least partially pre planned.

So, besides, some of the other things that MIGHT be available with 'blue sky' dreams of what might be possible, even the things we do already know will be possible with Fastpass + will help many people in ways that a GAC currently can't.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:14 PM   #99
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Q: GAC Idea

This may belong in a different thread (?)

There has been a lot of fuss over GAC abuse, and I know that people who really need it are suffering the most from the abuse. I had an idea that all theme parks could utilize to help cut down on abusers, but it may be a stupid idea, so no one yell at me if it was an idiotic idea. Just politely tell me.

I saw this as a reason why castmembers can't ask for proof of a disability:

"According to the Americans with Disabilities Act, legally Disney cannot ask anyone what their disability is. Even if they were able to though, CM’s are not doctors or medical personnel and couldn’t be expected to know or evaluate conditions that guests might have, nor should they. If they asked and a guest told them they had Lupus, (for example) and the CM never heard of it, would they then have to then explain what that is and how it effects them? And how much would it really help matters? If someone is going to abuse a GAC card, if they need to make up something to tell a CM they would."

I understand castmembers not being physcians, but they could recognize special paper that only a physician would have. I know when you need a schedule 2 or 3 drug, the prescription must be on special paper. If the use of this paper or something similiar could be extended to being used for proof needing a GAC, then all the castmember would need to do is verify the paper, not the disability. I know some doctors might abuse the system, but I would think very few would if abuse of it would get them in trouble, like the abuse of prescribing such drugs incorrectly would get them in trouble.

I think they are sometimes called Security Prescription Pads. It would be he same as a castmember recognizing a fake bill, which anyone with a bit of instruction can do.

The doctor could write a note saying the needed a GAC on the paper, and the paper being legitimate would be the verification.

I think it might cut down on people abusing the system, if everyone had to go and ask their doctor for the special note, but I would think or hope that anyone with a real need for one wouldn't mind doing so, if that meant that people abusing the system couldn't anymore.

The only thing is I don't know if security prescription pads are allowed to be used in this way, and I imagine if they are not, getting the medical community to agree to allowing it might be impossible.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:20 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stitch407 View Post
This may belong in a different thread (?)

There has been a lot of fuss over GAC abuse, and I know that people who really need it are suffering the most from the abuse. I had an idea that all theme parks could utilize to help cut down on abusers, but it may be a stupid idea, so no one yell at me if it was an idiotic idea. Just politely tell me.

I saw this as a reason why castmembers can't ask for proof of a disability:

"According to the Americans with Disabilities Act, legally Disney cannot ask anyone what their disability is. Even if they were able to though, CM’s are not doctors or medical personnel and couldn’t be expected to know or evaluate conditions that guests might have, nor should they. .

It is ILLEGAL to ask for a proof of disability for providing equal accommodations to a person with a disability. Period, end of story.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:23 PM   #101
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I do understand what you are saying and no I do not think you are stupid

It would be illegal to require any kind of 'proof' of disability. The GAC is not DME or a prescription; physicians cannot write for it, nor would I suspect they be very eager to.

I suspect we will continue to have to rely on the kindness and common sense of strangers. And I truly believe that those who abuse the system are a very small minority.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:24 PM   #102
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It is ILLEGAL to ask for a proof of disability for providing equal accommodations to a person with a disability. Period, end of story.
No, not the end of story. There must be some reason why it was made that way, and if abuse of this is happening, then the law can be changed. ADA was made to prevent discrimination due to a disability. There have been various changes in ADA legislation, so the story has not ended. Just think of the Segway situation!
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:24 PM   #103
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Ok Good to know
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:34 PM   #104
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If the abuse is by the minority, then why do so many people complain about it? I have never had a problem when standing in line. I have never seen anyone I thought was abusing the system, but I go to the parks a lot and people on occassion ask me about it, but since I don't use a GAC, I don't know how it works.

I also see a lot of people complain about overseas tour groups, and I have never had a problem with them either.

I have only ever witnessed a few particular people (definitely from America) making trouble for themselves, and they have always been stopped by security.

I feel like either people are blowing the situation out of porportion, or the problem is being ignored by people who could actually do something about the situation.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:35 PM   #105
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No, not the end of story. There must be some reason why it was made that way, and if abuse of this is happening, then the law can be changed. ADA was made to prevent discrimination due to a disability. There have been various changes in ADA legislation, so the story has not ended. Just think of the Segway situation!
Federal law is not going to change over the abuse of GAC cards.

What is the Segway situation? That's a story I haven't heard!
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