A question regarding the growth of WDW

[DVC-Landbaron]

-He stabilized a company that was on the verge of being taken over and sold off for parts.

Well. I wonder if that is really accurate. I don’t think so… Read on.

Baron, all those years ago you were technically right and I was technically wrong. However, as time has gone by it is obvious that I was 'practically' right and you wrong.

WOW!!! Captain/Pirate!!! That doublespeak even for you!!!

Yes, Mikey could have done better with what he did right but in the long run he did enough right to call it successful. Should all of his elements, MGM, AK, DCA, etc been better? Been much, much better? Yes! Yes! Yes!

That’s all I need right now. I’m not discounting the rest of your “optimistic” view. But I’m not talking about the time in the future when the knight in shining armor comes thundering into Disney corporate headquarters to fill in the “shells” that Ei$ner left, or they actually thaw out that frozen head (GOOD GRIEF!! What would JJ do for a moniker then!!!)!

I asked if they did it right. By the paragraph quoted above, THEY DID NOT!!! Thank you for playing!!

I dug a bit for this and found AV had a wonderful post regarding some of what we are discussing here. Let me know what you think.

Another Voice
1. Michael Eisner was hired as the creative executive. Frank Wells was the person really running the company along with the heads of the individual business units. Yes, Eisner did bring in Katzenberg, but he quickly developed his own power base and can’t really be considered a “Michael” person even in the best of times. Notably Attractions remained managed by “Walt and Ron” people all throughout the “golden Eisner years”.

2. These people were able to run their divisions as they wanted with the occasional interruption from Eisner. They were able to stop most of his really dumb ideas early – closing Animation, selling EPCOT Center, opening up a chain of fast food joints, etc.

3. Eisner’s primary purpose in the early years was to lend his Hollywood credibility and let Jeffrey borrow the rolodex to stars at the Betty Ford clinic. Yes, he did jump start the studio, but that was a process that had already started. Many people had been waiting for Disney to reawaken and jumped at the chance to help. And the single event that most sparked the company, ‘The Little Mermaid’ was a project that pre-dated Eisner (and one he wanted killed).

4. Eisner micromanages in the things that interest him, and utterly ignores those that do not. While he’s more than willing to spend an entire day picking out the fabric for the lobby chairs, the man couldn’t tell you what “rack rate” means to the hotel business. Many times he would get involved in the most mundane of decisions – and override the management that made the calls in the first place – while ignoring the serious issues around him. This caused tremendous problems between him and the company’s upper management. It’s very hard to look seriously at a man for strategic guidance when his only interest seems to be how quickly you can manufacture the new monorail costumes his wife just designed.

5. He has no ability to “tough out” a problem when they appear. It’s an ability that’s become legendary about town. He flung himself into the design decisions about Euro Disney and California Adventure and then completely abandoned both projects when troubles arose. Also witness his approach to Animation – he hated it at the beginning (because it was perceived as a failure), then “fell in love” when it made gobs of cash, but now since there hasn’t been another ‘The Lion King’ again he’s shutting down the division. There has been no attempt to fix the division or to find out what went wrong. It’s just been dropped like a worn out toy.

6. Eisner’s tinkering, ego, and lack of true business skills forced out all of the company’s top management and a created turnover rate remarkable even for Hollywood. In the last five years alone, how many studio heads have rolled through the lot? Through the death of Frank Wells and the loss of anyone with the intestines to say “NO!”, what you’re seeing today is pretty much the Eisner that’s been there all along.

7. Well, maybe not all along. It’s worse now after a decade of self-promotion and being surrounded by yes-droids. He honestly thinks he’s the business genius that he’s been pretending to be and that makes him dangerous as well. People were laughing at him for the Fox Family deal, both inside and outside of the company. Only the ones on the outside didn’t both the wait until his back was turned.

No, Eisner is not to blame for all the bad things that have happened or are happening, but he should likewise receive the appropriate amount of praise for what went right. Eisner was good as the Hollywood smoozer to whisper sweet nothings into the ears of stars and to parade himself about at the premier parties. But he’s not a businessman. He never has been nor ever will be.

Too bad we can't call in for a stunt double whenever a real decision has to be made.

Thus ends the Disney gospel according to AV

One more quote, just because it makes me feel good!!

But he still implemented enough shell pieces to get us where we are today, which is a still salvageable Disney should someone have the balls to do it. (I'd hire you Landbaron).

Thanks!!!!! I’d hire me too!!!!!!!!

[mrsR123]

Do any of you read Kevin Yee? There's a blog entry he wrote chronicaling the decline by degrees at WDW. He pretty effectively shreds anything I have to say about the state of the parks.

Here's a link to a TPAS thread where someone cut and pasted the text:
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3048082

sigh

[Peter Pirate 2]

Originally Posted by mrsR123

Do any of you read Kevin Yee? There's a blog entry he wrote chronicaling the decline by degrees at WDW. He pretty effectively shreds anything I have to say about the state of the parks.

Here's a link to a TPAS thread where someone cut and pasted the text:
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3048082

sigh

Thanks MrsR123. Kevin does a very good job of putting current Disney into words and why we should all be totally scared of the Walmart masses who still blindly laud all things Disney. Thanks Bobby Magic!

Over on the restaurants board there are, right now, people lauding 'Ohana despite the nearly complete annihilation of what it once was. They don't want to know and don't care that it should be better.

[bcrook]

Originally Posted by Peter Pirate 2

Thanks MrsR123. Kevin does a very good job of putting current Disney into words and why we should all be totally scared of the Walmart masses who still blindly laud all things Disney. Thanks Bobby Magic!

Over on the restaurants board there are, right now, people lauding 'Ohana despite the nearly complete annihilation of what it once was. They don't want to know and don't care that it should be better.

[DVC-Landbaron]

Over on the restaurants board there are, right now, people lauding 'Ohana despite the nearly complete annihilation of what it once was. They don't want to know and don't care that it should be better.

That's why I stay away from the restaurants board!!!!

[Lewisc]

People like to write about the "decline" of Disney's restaurants. The truth is the restaurants had a lot of empty tables. I suspect more Disney guests are comfortable paying for an Outback dining experience then paying for a place like the Palm. More guests willing to pay for an Olive Garden experience then Bice. Guests who want that kind of dining experience need can still get it at hotels like S/D and the Universal hotels.

It's a shame Disney didn't think they could appeal to both groups of guests. Disney could have positioned one or two restaurants below V&A but above DDP standards. One of the few restaurants in this category was Bistro in EPCOT.

Disney found they could charge 5* (Four Seasons) pricing for the GF without having to provide (pay for) 5* service. Instead of being a 5* resort the GF is themed to resemble such a resort.

I guess the policy is why give guests what they're paying for if they're willing a accept less.

[DRDISNEYMD]

~I love the idea of an all inclusive Disney vacation, and used to love the dining plan! I believe FREE dining ruined the Disney dining experience -- not the dining plan. Before the FREE dining promotion, most visitors didn't know about the dining plan, or even half the restaurants at Disney.

~And, prior to the Dining Plan everyone was buying the meal vouchers from Hotwire, and many would then sell them on Ebay for ridiculous prices. It was a wise decision for Disney to eliminate the vouchers and introduce the Dining plan -- the overall decline in value and quality came with FREE dining.

~I only stay at the Deluxe resorts, but that's my personal preference. I have no problem with the Value & Moderate resorts, it was a very smart decision by Disney. I guess Disney could have avoided "motels," but people seem to love them.

[bcrook]

Originally Posted by Lewisc

It's a shame Disney didn't think they could appeal to both groups of guests. Disney could have positioned one or two restaurants below V&A but above DDP standards. One of the few restaurants in this category was Bistro in EPCOT.

Just curious, do you not consider the signature restaurants in that category? Jiko, Artist Point, or California Grill?

Disney found they could charge 5* (Four Seasons) pricing for the GF without having to provide (pay for) 5* service. Instead of being a 5* resort the GF is themed to resemble such a resort.

I find that to be the case.

I guess the policy is why give guests what they're paying for if they're willing [to] accept less.

This is definitely true along with the strategy of pushing the price points to breaking before backing off. Using the Baron's Polynesian example...Is Disney ready to start using that 80% pre-book philosophy on the parks next, and price people out them? In this case there is no Value Theme Park to fall back to. Except Six Flags or something.

DrDisneyMD kind of said the same thing about the values. They may be motels, but lots of people love them.

It is the dumbing down of Disney. And I am a broken record at this point, but the magicbands plan is also playing into this dumbed down model.

[Lewisc]

Originally Posted by bcrook

Just curious, do you not consider the signature restaurants in that category? Jiko, Artist Point, or California Grill?

DrDisneyMD kind of said the same thing about the values. They may be motels, but lots of people love them.

It is the dumbing down of Disney. And I am a broken record at this point, but the magicbands plan is also playing into this dumbed down model.

Signature restaurants have the same issues with the DDP as the one credit restaurants. Forced to create a menu for a set price. Disney doesn't let restaurants offer a "signature" item with an upcharge.

Outside of Disney, have you ever seen a restaurant offer a fixed price dinner special which didn't at least include soup or salad? JMO but the meal plan is no longer a dining plan but is a "food plan". Disney saw the need to offer less to dining plan customer. Drop the choice of appetizer and replace it with a choice of soup or salad. or Offer a "house" appetizer or a sampler platter for the table.

I think the term "dumbing down" is offensive. A person who decides to spend their money dining at an Outback instead of the Palm isn't dumb. Disney decided to standardize (not dumb) many of it's offerings. Food. Drinks. Souvenirs. They also revised their menus so they could offer them at lower price point and still make their $$$ profit objective.. Nothing wrong with it. People who like a "smarter" ($$$) dining experience have several restaurants in the S/D to pick from.

The value resorts far exceed my expectations as to what I expect in a value property. The deluxe hotels fall far short of what I expect in a 4* hotel. I wouldn't say I "love" the vale resorts but they do a better job (JMO) in delivering what they promise in terms of service.

[lockedoutlogic]

Originally Posted by Peter Pirate 2

Thanks MrsR123. Kevin does a very good job of putting current Disney into words and why we should all be totally scared of the Walmart masses who still blindly laud all things Disney. Thanks Bobby Magic!

Over on the restaurants board there are, right now, people lauding 'Ohana despite the nearly complete annihilation of what it once was. They don't want to know and don't care that it should be better.

I likey

[Peter Pirate 2]

Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic

I likey

Been on a sabbatical, huh?

[lockedoutlogic]

Originally Posted by Lewisc

Signature restaurants have the same issues with the DDP as the one credit restaurants. Forced to create a menu for a set price. Disney doesn't let restaurants offer a "signature" item with an upcharge.

Outside of Disney, have you ever seen a restaurant offer a fixed price dinner special which didn't at least include soup or salad? JMO but the meal plan is no longer a dining plan but is a "food plan". Disney saw the need to offer less to dining plan customer. Drop the choice of appetizer and replace it with a choice of soup or salad. or Offer a "house" appetizer or a sampler platter for the table.

I think the term "dumbing down" is offensive. A person who decides to spend their money dining at an Outback instead of the Palm isn't dumb. Disney decided to standardize (not dumb) many of it's offerings. Food. Drinks. Souvenirs. They also revised their menus so they could offer them at lower price point and still make their $$$ profit objective.. Nothing wrong with it. People who like a "smarter" ($$$) dining experience have several restaurants in the S/D to pick from.

The value resorts far exceed my expectations as to what I expect in a value property. The deluxe hotels fall far short of what I expect in a 4* hotel. I wouldn't say I "love" the vale resorts but they do a better job (JMO) in delivering what they promise in terms of service.

I wholeheartedly agree with most of what you said - especially the assessments of the dining plan and the problem with their "tiered" hotel quality...

But i think you underestimate just how big of a club "dumbing down" is that disney has and will wield against its customers.

The dining plan - in addition to streamlining costs and increasing profits - IS and always was a dumbing down tool.

The whole point - my opinion, but based on my own experience counting presidents for the Mouse - was to push the people's vacation "pocket money" directly to the gift shops. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.00.

So now you pay for (or charge in most cases) your tickets, room, airlines, car rentals, sunscreen, AND your food far in advance. six months, a year, two years...

And yet they know that the vacationer shows up with giftcards or a wad of cash in their pockets (thanks, grandma! )
So where does that go?

According to the annual report: merchandising. And so that was the evil Darth Sidious point in the first place...

And i interpret that as "dumbing it down" for people. Do what we say and go with it...because we say so.

[lockedoutlogic]

Originally Posted by Peter Pirate 2

Been on a sabbatical, huh?

Actually on Celebrity...

I tend to zone out when i have something else on the radar...now i have BLT in the crosshairs

[BRERALEX]

Feels like 2001 around these here parts.

[MassJester]

Originally Posted by Lewisc

I think the term "dumbing down" is offensive. A person who decides to spend their money dining at an Outback instead of the Palm isn't dumb. Disney decided to standardize (not dumb) many of it's offerings. Food. Drinks. Souvenirs. They also revised their menus so they could offer them at lower price point and still make their $$$ profit objective.. Nothing wrong with it. People who like a "smarter" ($$$) dining experience have several restaurants in the S/D to pick from.

This.