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Old 01-06-2013, 04:37 PM   #61
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I don't care what occupation or degrees my children end up with. As any parent of course we want them happy in what they chose BUT up to a point. I'm sure I'm not alone in that as parents we want them to be able to move on (and out of the house) and enjoy a sustainable career. And by sustainable I mean on their own two feet in a job with benefits/health insurance that they can live independently. I have to agree with a prior poster - I believe most kids think they know what it takes to live truly on their own but very little realize the full extent of that. So the question to ask of any child pursuing whatever degree, certification, or job right out of the paper....will this type of job lead you to that sustainable lifestyle? In the end, I just don't want my kids 35 years old with a degree (and possibly loans) sleeping on my couch or living in my basement, etc. That, in the end, isn't going to make them - or us - happy. I don't plan on having to support my kids because they chose a degree that essentially isn't supporting. Best to help them evaluate now rather than later.

Many parents stop at the "I just want them to be happy" part. Are they going to be happy if the job/career they pick lands them square on your couch because it's not in demand and they can't find anything or doesn't pay well enough for them to stand on their own two feet? Maybe they will be happy, maybe they won't but next thing you know, there's a thread on the DIS from a parent about the deadbeat kid living with parents for upteen years and what should they do?

It's OK - parents - to ask the tough question - is this truly a sustainable career choice? It's not knocking the child, or harming their self esteem, or being snobbish - it's a question - a valid question. And when they choose the career within the school, ask the school for their placement rates and the average starting salaries for these jobs. They should have these statistics to share. That's the proof in the pudding right there.
But what qualifies as a sustainable career choice vs. a non-sustainable career choice? Whose opinion/experience carries the most weight? Obviously no one wants their kid to dream of being a pan handler but what makes the dream of being a chef any less than the dream of being a doctor (not saying you said that, just asking that question as an example that relates to this particular post)? Plenty of chefs enjoy their jobs and make a decent living. If a child wanted to be one why wouldn't their parent assume that he could be one of the successes instead of one of the failures. We all know that a lot of kids drop out of med school. And that the incidence of depression and even suicide among doctors is the highest in history. Why don't parents who push their kids in that direction ever assume that their kid could be one of those?

Rhetorical question, I know. Just food for thought. I really do think that for many (maybe even most) this is more about snobbery and self pride ("my kid, the doctor") than anything else.

FWIW there are loads of college grads with degrees in fields they and their parents thought were tickets to success sleeping in their parent's basement as we speak. It's not only those kids who majored in Egyptian Anthropology. There are never any guarantees. IMO everyone deserves permission to try. Sometimes it's the support of loved ones that is the difference between success and failure.

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Old 01-06-2013, 04:42 PM   #62
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One of my good friends went to a culinary school in Pittsburgh did awesome, she loved it. She also did the culinary Disney program. She is now a manager for Lowes. She did have a few jobs that went with her culinary degree but the pay and the hours were awful.
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:45 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeysgal View Post
I don't care what occupation or degrees my children end up with. As any parent of course we want them happy in what they chose BUT up to a point. I'm sure I'm not alone in that as parents we want them to be able to move on (and out of the house) and enjoy a sustainable career. And by sustainable I mean on their own two feet in a job with benefits/health insurance that they can live independently. I have to agree with a prior poster - I believe most kids think they know what it takes to live truly on their own but very little realize the full extent of that. So the question to ask of any child pursuing whatever degree, certification, or job right out of the paper....will this type of job lead you to that sustainable lifestyle? In the end, I just don't want my kids 35 years old with a degree (and possibly loans) sleeping on my couch or living in my basement, etc. That, in the end, isn't going to make them - or us - happy. I don't plan on having to support my kids because they chose a degree that essentially isn't supporting. Best to help them evaluate now rather than later.

Many parents stop at the "I just want them to be happy" part. Are they going to be happy if the job/career they pick lands them square on your couch because it's not in demand and they can't find anything or doesn't pay well enough for them to stand on their own two feet? Maybe they will be happy, maybe they won't but next thing you know, there's a thread on the DIS from a parent about the deadbeat kid living with parents for upteen years and what should they do?

It's OK - parents - to ask the tough question - is this truly a sustainable career choice? It's not knocking the child, or harming their self esteem, or being snobbish - it's a question - a valid question. And when they choose the career within the school, ask the school for their placement rates and the average starting salaries for these jobs. They should have these statistics to share. That's the proof in the pudding right there.

Have you ever read Rich Dad Poor Dad?
Have you thought about the fact that maybe the daughter could use her culinary degree to propel her into starting her own business?
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:57 PM   #64
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She sounds really impulsive. She also sounds intimidated by the sports team. What is going on here, truly - what is driving this?

Does she realize that culinary generally = inconsistent pay, restaurant shutdowns, bad benefits and working every holiday?
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:59 PM   #65
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WOW, with 3 daughters in college now as well as myself, I could not imagine being upset because one decided to change schools or programs to make herself happy.

DD1 graduated high school in 2006, had no plans for college whatsoever, until about a week before graduation she decided she might want to try the local community college. We did the application, she was accepted and she did great the first year and a half, then took a semester off, then went back, changed her program twice and is now finishing her BS this year with a 3.4 GPA. Her program changed from Television, Radio Broadcasting to English Education to Anthropology. She has always been into Anthropology and she is thrilled to be finishing with this as her major.
DD2 graduated high school in 2008, said for 4 years she wanted to go to a specific school, it was the only college she applied to and was accepted. School was 2 hours from home and she received a couple of great scholarships and some awesome grants which paid for her dorm fees, books, tuition and gave her about $3k per semester in her pocket. She loved the school, changed her program 3 times in the two years she was there. Her boyfriend had moved to TN with his family the year she went away to school and she then transferred to TN in 2010 to be with him. She was accepted at UT, however after realizing the distance between the school and where she was living it was not going to work, she took her last 2 AS online through the University here and then transferred to online school through Liberty University, she will also finish her BS this year. And they will be getting married in 40 days. He is joining the Air Force, and she will work on her Masters along the way. She changed from Clinical Laboratory Science, to Criminal Justice to Psychology/Family Counseling.
DD3 graduated in 2010, took 4 semesters at the local community college then did the last 2 semesters in the Disney College Program, has changed her program from Early Childhood Education to Psychology and is considering a change to Hospitality/Tourism. She will finish her AS this semester and transfer to UCF which is closer to Disney where she is now a seasonal employee. She loves it there, was actually quite emotional having to move back home this week as she really misses the "Family" that they have grown to be in the program.
Myself, I have a couple of semesters left for my AS. I did two semesters then had to drop out the second year as my work schedule (80 hours a week) and raising 3 daughters did not leave much time for school studies and my grades dropped terribly. I have a second chance now and am taking it. I dropped out in 2008 and started back last year. My GPA is a 3.4 after 32 credits. Originally when I went in 2006 I was going to Hospitality/Tourism with a focus on being a travel agent since that is what my day job was. I then changed to Office Administration so that I could eventually leave the travel industry and still have the skills for a good job. I have narrowed that down even further to Medical Office Administration with a focus on Billing and Coding, and Health Unit Coordinator.

I say this all to say... at 18 fresh out of high school did you know what you wanted to do for the rest of your life? College advisors say it is normal to change programs 3 or 4 times in the first couple of years, people grow more interested in other things as they grow older. Newer options become available and this should not upset a parent. Be happy that you have a child that wants to go to school not just sit around and smoke pot and do nothing. Or is happy with no school and being a cart pusher at Walmart or bagger at Publix. Your child has a plan, maybe it isn't what your plan was for your child, but you are not the one sitting in the classes and sleeping in a dorm away from home. Maybe she is homesick. Like someone else had said, maybe see if the community college has a culinary program, most do, it is part of the hospitality program. Worst case scenario, she changes her mind again... not a big deal.
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:02 PM   #66
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FWIW there are loads of college grads with degrees in fields they thought were tickets to success sleeping in their parent's basement as we speak. There are never any guarantees. IMO everyone deserves permission to try. Sometimes it's the support of loved ones that is the difference between success and failure.
Sure, but that just means it's important to be particularly judicious about what kind of degrees you're willing to go into debt for. I totally disagree that everyone deserves permission to spend thousands of their parents dollars or go into thousands of dollars into debt for a whim.

Suggesting they complete their scholarship obligations while taking that time to think and regroup is not a lack of support.

My college sophmore wanted to drop classes and change majors last term. We totally supported him, but we suggested not trying to swap mid-quarter. He spent the rest of the term finishing his other classes while researching other majors and making plans to switch over. We thought the switch was a done deal. Guess who just decided to sign up for another term of classes in his old major? He could change his mind again, but he'll be able to do it without regret knowing he gave it time.

My personal hunch is that unless there are really extreme circumstances (certainly none were mentioned by the OP) the OP's dd would regret not playing at least one collegiate season of the sport she worked hard enough in to get scholarhips. She can switch any time she wants, but it would be nice if she gave it a chance so she wouldn't have regrets later.

Nothing is wrong with switching. Do so suddenly on a whim is not always the wisest course. As parents, who are in most cases footing the bill, I think we have the right and even the obligation to counsel our kids to make well thought out decisions.
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:10 PM   #67
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Sure, but that just means it's important to be particularly judicious about what kind of degrees you're willing to go into debt for. I totally disagree that everyone deserves permission to spend thousands of their parents dollars or go into thousands of dollars into debt for a whim.
You're absolutely right.

Which is why I never said that.
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:22 PM   #68
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You're absolutely right.

Which is why I never said that.
IMO, you essentially said the OP should be supportive and advised her to let her try this new sudden idea that won't be supported through an already earned scholarship - that the OP said was financially necessary. It seemed to me like you did?
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:24 PM   #69
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But what qualifies as a sustainable career choice vs. a non-sustainable career choice? Whose opinion/experience carries the most weight? Obviously no one wants their kid to dream of being a pan handler but what makes the dream of being a chef any less than the dream of being a doctor (not saying you said that, just asking that question as an example that relates to this particular post)? Plenty of chefs enjoy their jobs and make a decent living. If a child wanted to be one why wouldn't their parent assume that he could be one of the successes instead of one of the failures. We all know that a lot of kids drop out of med school. And that the incidence of depression and even suicide among doctors is the highest in history. Why don't parents who push their kids in that direction ever assume that their kid could be one of those?

Rhetorical question, I know. Just food for thought. I really do think that for many (maybe even most) this is more about snobbery and self pride ("my kid, the doctor") than anything else.

FWIW there are loads of college grads with degrees in fields they and their parents thought were tickets to success sleeping in their parent's basement as we speak. It's not only those kids who majored in Egyptian Anthropology. There are never any guarantees. IMO everyone deserves permission to try. Sometimes it's the support of loved ones that is the difference between success and failure.
Sustainable vs. non-sustainable to me is the one where they can move out on their own with a job that carries benefits/health insurance or if not, lucrative enough that they can buy their own independent benefits and not be financially and physically supported in any way by their parents or family. In other words, move out on their own - truly on their own. I have too many friends that still pay for their kids apartments, health insurance, car insurance, cell phones, way after they went through college or certificate programs. At the kids's ages of 30 something they're still paying for their children's lifestyles and career choices because they can't stand on their own. It's ok as parents to ask the question - will this (*insert career*) be sustainable and how? Have they (the kids) looked at the reality of their choices or are they just picking something because it's interesting and haven't done the homework - (i.e. placement reality) into the field. (Ironically, I have a friend that is currently asking this of her son as he just changed his major to Ceramics.)
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:41 PM   #70
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Your DD can do whatever she pleases as long as she isn't expecting you to pay for it.
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:46 PM   #71
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Just wanted to chime in from the kids point of view. Both my husband and I have unusual academic tracks. I did my Bachelor of Fine Arts with the intention of then going into Classical Animation. I was one of the very few accepted into a top school and program and much to the shock of everyone around me, I decided not to go. I worked retail for a year and then went back to school for my education degree. Now I'm hoping to go back for my Masters.

DH started off in computer science for a year. Chucked that out the window to take photography. (You can only imagine what his parents had to say about that...) After two years of that he went back to school and majored in psychology, switched from arts psych to science psych for his masters, did PhD in biology and is now an evolutionary biologist.

We both waffled, and tried different things. In the end, we both found things that make us happy and allow us to lead a life we enjoy. OP, your daughter may change her mind over and over. She will likely give you numerous heart attacks along the way. But she will come out okay on the other side, one way or another.

Edited to add: For what's it's worth, the only people funding both DH's and my post secondary wanderings was us.
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:50 PM   #72
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Your DD can do whatever she pleases as long as she isn't expecting you to pay for it.

It's a tough call. MyMy grandfather and great uncle ran a successful restaurant in NYC for 40 years. All the kids in my family (including myself) worked the restaurant at some point of our lives (and without pay). It was interesting that my pop-pop was really proud that he put most of his kids through college owning htat place but no one wanted to continue the business

The problem is in todays environment there are no guarantees no matter what type of degree you have. There are plenty of engineers walking around that don't have jobs and when I was in school, engineering was the way to go to ensure you got a job after school. I was a chemistry/biology major and I knew without a doubt that I did NOT want to be a doctor or nurse. All I really knew was that I liked science. Yet here I am more than 25 years after the fact and now I hate my job. go figure.

Go luck op, all the previouis scenerios could work out well or not. all you can do is give her the advice you think is best. (that and a lot of praying mixed liberally with alcohol helps me. )
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:56 PM   #73
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Sustainable vs. non-sustainable to me is the one where they can move out on their own with a job that carries benefits/health insurance or if not, lucrative enough that they can buy their own independent benefits and not be financially and physically supported in any way by their parents or family. In other words, move out on their own - truly on their own. I have too many friends that still pay for their kids apartments, health insurance, car insurance, cell phones, way after they went through college or certificate programs. At the kids's ages of 30 something they're still paying for their children's lifestyles and career choices because they can't stand on their own. It's ok as parents to ask the question - will this (*insert career*) be sustainable and how? Have they (the kids) looked at the reality of their choices or are they just picking something because it's interesting and haven't done the homework - (i.e. placement reality) into the field. (Ironically, I have a friend that is currently asking this of her son as he just changed his major to Ceramics.)
Makes sense to me.

If you really do have friends who pay for their kids apartments, health insurance, car insurance, cell phones way after they went through college and certificate programs....shame on THEM. It's called enabling. Cut the ties and make them responsible for themselves. Something tells me that they will figure it out.
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:59 PM   #74
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IMO, you essentially said the OP should be supportive and advised her to let her try this new sudden idea that won't be supported through an already earned scholarship - that the OP said was financially necessary. It seemed to me like you did?
Emotionally supported, not necessarily financially supported. There are loans available, part-time jobs perhaps. That's how I got through college, and graduate school too. There's something very motivating about knowing that you, and you alone, will be held responsible for the choices you make. More parents might want to try it.

Last edited by pacrosby; 01-06-2013 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:09 PM   #75
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It's sad when a child doesn't want to live your life.

My dad used so say, and I agree, " the two important things to give your child is life and their freedom".
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