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Old 01-05-2013, 10:33 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyMom View Post
If a family of a patient says they can't put in a foley (they tried 2x and couldn't do it, and the 100 year old patient was SCREAMING in pain), can they turn around, after the family leaves and do it anyway? Isn't that violating the patients rights?
Not necessarily.
But there's not enough information to make any kind of judgement.

Some things that would play into the decision to attempt again to insert a Foley:
1. What are the consequences/how much discomfort will there be if we don't insert a Foley? Sometimes 5 minutes of discomfort is worth it to prevent severe complications.
2. Can the Foley be inserted by someone else who might have a better technique for a difficult insertion?
3. Is the patient competent? If so, what the family thinks has no bearing.

Since you are calling the nurses nasty women who are ignoring your husband, I'm guessing we're not going to get a real unbiased amount of information.

I'm also guessing that the nurses might be a bit more willing to talk to your husband if they weren't being referred to as "nasty women".

I wish your family member well.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:03 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by badblackpug View Post
there are way to many variables missing from this story to give an opinion.

1) Why did she need the foley?
2) Is she mentally competent
B) If not, does she have a durable power of attorney?
3) Does she have an advanced directive or living will that states what procedures are acceptable and what are not?
4) Who placed the foley?
She broke her hip and was in the ER where they tried to insert it the first time and could not. Once she was admitted the asst. nurse manager tried to and could not.

No, she is not mentally competent.
Yes, she does, her son (who is my fil) has it. He was in FL, and gave told them my DH and BIL have the right to deal with her care. (Yes he should have done this before he went to FL, and I am going to make sure if she survives surgery tomorrow (broken hip) that he give DH and BIL medical poa when he is not here).
She has a DNR.
It was placed after DH went home, and he thinks it was the asst. nurse manager. But she was told not to try again since she was fighting it.

She can not use a bed pan, she is in adult diapers.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:18 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disney Doll View Post
Not necessarily.
But there's not enough information to make any kind of judgement.

Some things that would play into the decision to attempt again to insert a Foley:
1. What are the consequences/how much discomfort will there be if we don't insert a Foley? Sometimes 5 minutes of discomfort is worth it to prevent severe complications.
2. Can the Foley be inserted by someone else who might have a better technique for a difficult insertion? Well no, since the one who tried to do it said she was the master at it, and couldn't.
3. Is the patient competent? If so, what the family thinks has no bearing.
No she isn't.

Since you are calling the nurses nasty women who are ignoring your husband, I'm guessing we're not going to get a real unbiased amount of information.

I'm also guessing that the nurses might be a bit more willing to talk to your husband if they weren't being referred to as "nasty women".

I wish your family member well.
First of all DH didn't call them nasty to their faces. He was texting me his frustrations. And there was no reason for them to be nasty and unprofessional to my DH. NONE. Beleive me, my DH is not one to complain about behavior unless it is really bad. DH had been nice and great and sweet, but not when his wishes for his grandmothers care aren't being listened too. That is frustrating. His grandmother is 100 years old, has a broken hip, that if they don't fix, she will probably die in bed in a few months (medical opinion), but there is a good chance she won't survive the surgery, but has to have it. So he is dealing with the fact that his grandmother is going to die very soon. He is dealing with all the care since his father is out of town, and couldn't get in until this evening. He is stressed, and sad, and frustrated. And when he told them not to, they should have listened and not given him attitude and ignored him after wards.

And yes, I gave him the number of the advocate (they are there over the weekend). We also know the chief of the ER, and I wish he would have called him, but DH hates playing that card unless he has too. I want him to file a complaint, but it is up to him to do it. We have been taking turns at the hospital and I wasn't there when this happened. Even her private aides had gone home.

DH went tonite to pick up his dad, and I stayed there with her to make sure she was ok, until he brought his dad there. They changed shifts while I was there and the night nurse seemed nice. Heck, visiting hours end at 8 pm and we were there until 11:30 PM. Heck my DS and DIL came after 10 PM.But what is done is done. I know I really wasn't comfortable leaving her alone there tonight, but it isn't my call. I have spent more time in the hospital over the past two days then I have with my kids.

Sorry for venting, I know nurses work hard and there are alot of you there, but this is frustrating which I why I asked if there was a procedure. Before this happened, DH was very happy with the nursing care.

Ok...off to sleep, tomorrow is going to be a long day.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:09 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyMom View Post
First of all DH didn't call them nasty to their faces. He was texting me his frustrations. And there was no reason for them to be nasty and unprofessional to my DH. NONE. Beleive me, my DH is not one to complain about behavior unless it is really bad. DH had been nice and great and sweet, but not when his wishes for his grandmothers care aren't being listened too. That is frustrating. His grandmother is 100 years old, has a broken hip, that if they don't fix, she will probably die in bed in a few months (medical opinion), but there is a good chance she won't survive the surgery, but has to have it. So he is dealing with the fact that his grandmother is going to die very soon. He is dealing with all the care since his father is out of town, and couldn't get in until this evening. He is stressed, and sad, and frustrated. And when he told them not to, they should have listened and not given him attitude and ignored him after wards.

And yes, I gave him the number of the advocate (they are there over the weekend). We also know the chief of the ER, and I wish he would have called him, but DH hates playing that card unless he has too. I want him to file a complaint, but it is up to him to do it. We have been taking turns at the hospital and I wasn't there when this happened. Even her private aides had gone home.

DH went tonite to pick up his dad, and I stayed there with her to make sure she was ok, until he brought his dad there. They changed shifts while I was there and the night nurse seemed nice. Heck, visiting hours end at 8 pm and we were there until 11:30 PM. Heck my DS and DIL came after 10 PM.But what is done is done. I know I really wasn't comfortable leaving her alone there tonight, but it isn't my call. I have spent more time in the hospital over the past two days then I have with my kids.

Sorry for venting, I know nurses work hard and there are alot of you there, but this is frustrating which I why I asked if there was a procedure. Before this happened, DH was very happy with the nursing care.

Ok...off to sleep, tomorrow is going to be a long day.

Okay, with a little more information. No, whomever placed the foley shouldn't have if your husband told them explicitly "no foley," (unless they cleared it with his father) but the reason they did probably place it was for her comfort. With a broken hip it is very, very painful to roll her to change her pamper every time she is wet. With the foley, it was a one-time pain. I'm not excusing them doing something against your wishes, just explaining that they were, probably, doing it with her comfort in mind.

Regardless of your husband's relationship with the EM chief, if the foley was placed on the floor, or by another department other than the ER he can't do anything for you.

Broken hips in someone so elderly is such a rotten thing. (as an aside, if she lives in a nursing home please investigate how she fell) That really stinks to have to go through this.

Most importantly, make sure she is getting adequate pain relief. If she has dementia she may not ask for pain medicine.

Good luck.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:55 AM   #20
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If she has a broken hip, she's much better off with a foley in place. Perhaps they gave her some pain medicine and she was more relaxed so they were able to insert it with less difficulty. I assure you, it would be much worse for her and more painful to continually have her diaper changed with a broken hip.
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:45 AM   #21
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I am not a nurse but since you say this is for a broken hip, then a foley would be something that is necessary.

I am not sure why you are fighting it. Adult diapers would not be a good choice at all.

My dh just had a triple bypass and while he was not thrilled getting the foley, it had to be done.
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:05 AM   #22
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This is right up my alley since I work on a specialized unit that includes ortho and urology.

We have had broken hips refuse a foley before. Those are usually alert and oriented men who can use a urinal. No one that has a broken hip wants to be put on a bed pan or be changed due to incontinence.

She was likely screaming in pain due to the hip and the positioning required to get the the foley inserted. Adequate pain control was not established the first and second time. I assume when pain was controlled it was easier on both staff and the patient to have the foley inserted. Quite possibly there was an opportunity, and while maybe they should have called your husband, the nurses deciced to take the opportunity to get the procedure done that really did need done in her case. Maybe they misinterpreted your husbands "no foley" to "no foley right now."

BTW- our assisted nursing care manager isn't our best at anchoring a foley. That honor belongs to a LPN that has been a bedside nurse for 15 years. On that note, since we are a urology floor, we get calls all the time from other floors to insert a foley because we have specialized training and can use different meds (lidocaine) and tools (in the insertion of larger catheters).

Not all nurses are great. There are some bad seeds that are way pass burned out but can't afford to retire. I know, I work with some of them. I don't know if your grandma-in-law had one of those nurses, or someone who was having a bad day, or it was a big miscommunication, but I'm sorry that you have to deal with this. The statistics do not fair well for someone her age with a broken hip. Remember a DNR is not comfort measures, and that there may need to be that consideration at some point in time.
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:14 AM   #23
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Unless the legal documents state that FIlL can designate someone other himself to make decisions about care, that's probably not something he can do legally. That's why normally there would be more than one powerholder designated, so the first one could go on vacation or if the first one were ill or had passed away, the next would take over. The designated powerholder cannot just say I don't want to do this, I appoint someone else, unless the documents give him that power and he puts it in writing in proper form. If the hospital staff has no documents with the name of FIL's son, OP's DH, on them, legally they are not required to follow his suggestions. He may have already burned some bridges if he used a demanding demeanor and tried to act against the best interests of the patient and keep staff members from doing their jobs to care for this patient. They know what they need to do and OP's DH does not.

It's hard to watch some procedures, but as disfan07 and others have stated so well, some things are for the comfort care of the patient. The staff is there to act in the best interests of the patient. Everyone needs to be on the same team.
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:53 AM   #24
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OP I just want to send you a hug.

I can relate, my 92 yo MIL fell and broke her hip the day after Christmas and has been in the hospital since. She went through surgery with flying colors and is now getting rehab and should be back "home" by the end of the week.

She does have dementia and it's been difficult seeing her upset over certain things. But we also know that there are things that may not be pleasant but had/have to be done.

The hospital should have a copy of her DNR, I know they wouldn't do surgery on my MIL until they had a copy of hers.
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:56 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyMom View Post
If a family of a patient says they can't put in a foley (they tried 2x and couldn't do it, and the 100 year old patient was SCREAMING in pain), can they turn around, after the family leaves and do it anyway? Isn't that violating the patients rights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MomRN View Post
This is right up my alley since I work on a specialized unit that includes ortho and urology.

We have had broken hips refuse a foley before. Those are usually alert and oriented men who can use a urinal. No one that has a broken hip wants to be put on a bed pan or be changed due to incontinence.

She was likely screaming in pain due to the hip and the positioning required to get the the foley inserted. Adequate pain control was not established the first and second time. I assume when pain was controlled it was easier on both staff and the patient to have the foley inserted. Quite possibly there was an opportunity, and while maybe they should have called your husband, the nurses deciced to take the opportunity to get the procedure done that really did need done in her case. Maybe they misinterpreted your husbands "no foley" to "no foley right now."

BTW- our assisted nursing care manager isn't our best at anchoring a foley. That honor belongs to a LPN that has been a bedside nurse for 15 years. On that note, since we are a urology floor, we get calls all the time from other floors to insert a foley because we have specialized training and can use different meds (lidocaine) and tools (in the insertion of larger catheters).

Not all nurses are great. There are some bad seeds that are way pass burned out but can't afford to retire. I know, I work with some of them. I don't know if your grandma-in-law had one of those nurses, or someone who was having a bad day, or it was a big miscommunication, but I'm sorry that you have to deal with this. The statistics do not fair well for someone her age with a broken hip. Remember a DNR is not comfort measures, and that there may need to be that consideration at some point in time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadie22 View Post
Unless the legal documents state that FIlL can designate someone other himself to make decisions about care, that's probably not something he can do legally. That's why normally there would be more than one powerholder designated, so the first one could go on vacation or if the first one were ill or had passed away, the next would take over. The designated powerholder cannot just say I don't want to do this, I appoint someone else, unless the documents give him that power and he puts it in writing in proper form. If the hospital staff has no documents with the name of FIL's son, OP's DH, on them, legally they are not required to follow his suggestions. He may have already burned some bridges if he used a demanding demeanor and tried to act against the best interests of the patient and keep staff members from doing their jobs to care for this patient. They know what they need to do and OP's DH does not.

It's hard to watch some procedures, but as disfan07 and others have stated so well, some things are for the comfort care of the patient. The staff is there to act in the best interests of the patient. Everyone needs to be on the same team.
agree with the quoted.
she needs the foley for her comfort as well as being pre op for the surgery. they need to keep accurate i&o for her.
I am also sorry your dh encountered someone not so nice. but it really is in the best interests of his grandmother to have the foley.
and I also agree about the legality. they need to have the papers in place for your dh to legally be able to make decisions for his grandmother.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:03 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by JoiseyMom View Post
First of all DH didn't call them nasty to their faces. He was texting me his frustrations. And there was no reason for them to be nasty and unprofessional to my DH. NONE. Beleive me, my DH is not one to complain about behavior unless it is really bad. DH had been nice and great and sweet, but not when his wishes for his grandmothers care aren't being listened too. That is frustrating. His grandmother is 100 years old, has a broken hip, that if they don't fix, she will probably die in bed in a few months (medical opinion), but there is a good chance she won't survive the surgery, but has to have it. So he is dealing with the fact that his grandmother is going to die very soon. He is dealing with all the care since his father is out of town, and couldn't get in until this evening. He is stressed, and sad, and frustrated. And when he told them not to, they should have listened and not given him attitude and ignored him after wards.

And yes, I gave him the number of the advocate (they are there over the weekend). We also know the chief of the ER, and I wish he would have called him, but DH hates playing that card unless he has too. I want him to file a complaint, but it is up to him to do it. We have been taking turns at the hospital and I wasn't there when this happened. Even her private aides had gone home.

DH went tonite to pick up his dad, and I stayed there with her to make sure she was ok, until he brought his dad there. They changed shifts while I was there and the night nurse seemed nice. Heck, visiting hours end at 8 pm and we were there until 11:30 PM. Heck my DS and DIL came after 10 PM.But what is done is done. I know I really wasn't comfortable leaving her alone there tonight, but it isn't my call. I have spent more time in the hospital over the past two days then I have with my kids.

Sorry for venting, I know nurses work hard and there are alot of you there, but this is frustrating which I why I asked if there was a procedure. Before this happened, DH was very happy with the nursing care.

Ok...off to sleep, tomorrow is going to be a long day.
A 100 year old female with a broken hip needs a Foley.

Turning her every time she needs to void is going to cause extreme pain.

Diapering her so that the urine sits against her skin causing it to break down into a bedsore is going to cause extreme pain, not to mention death, not to mention that the hospital is going to get blamed for not taking good care of her.

Having to change that diaper every time she is wet is going to cause extreme pain.

A 100 year old female with dementia may have been screaming during a Foley insertion for a number of reasons beyond pain....fear, embarrassment, not understanding what was going on.

If she was screaming in pain, then I would agree with you that the nurses should have premedicated her with pain medicine or something to relax her...however, the concern with that in someone who is 100 years old is that they are 100 years old. Giving a lot of medication to someone who is 100 years old can be dicey at best. Medication affects the elderly far differently than younger people....It can be a "darned if you do and darned if you don't" situation.

Your friend in the ER doesn't really have any pull or power elsewhere in the hospital. Frankly, if the ER chief came up to my floor to intrude in the care of one of his personal friends he'd be told to go back and run his department and let us run ours.

You didn't ask opinions on the surgery but I'm going to throw one out there. You stated above that if she has the surgery she probably won't survive it and if she doesn't have the surgery she'll probably die in a few months. My question would be "then why put her through surgery?"

She probably won't survive the surgery.

If she survives the surgery, what do they expect in terms of her recovery? Was she walking prior to this event? Was she able to care for herself? Was living independently or semi-independently? if she survives the surgery, will she be back to some sort of functional status or will she just be in less pain? And pain relief may be a good reason to do the surgery, but I think you all need to get an idea of what realistic expectations to have post-operatively if she survives, what will her quality of life be, how will she be cared for and by whom? In other words, what positive thing will this surgery do for her?

If this were my 100 year old grandmother with dementia (and I am aware that it is not), I would think long and hard about putting her through a surgery that might kill her as opposed to doing what is neccesary to keep her comfortable and take care of her.

In any event, I wish you well. These are not easy discussions to have or decisions to make. Just be certain you are looking at your grandmother's whole picture, quality of life etc. Sometimes the last loving thing we can do for someone is to let them go.....
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:33 PM   #27
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It may be too late to enact one of these, but there are some new directives that have been really helping families with questions as to what specific treatments their family members want.

Look into a POLST, physician orders for life sustaining treatment.

These are more than a DNR as you can make specific choices for care and since they are truly a physician order...they cannot be ignored.

examples of POLST treatment decisions:
Check one:

CPR Order: Attempt Cardio-Pulmonary Resuscitation
CPR involves artificial breathing and forceful pressure on the chest to try to restart the heart. It usually involves electric shock (defibrillation) and a
plastic tube down the throat into the windpipe to assist breathing (intubation). It means that all medical treatments will be done to prolong life when
the heart stops or breathing stops, including being placed on a breathing machine and being transferred to the hospital.

DNR Order: Do Not Attempt Resuscitation (Allow Natural Death)
This means do not begin CPR, as defined above, to make the heart or breathing start again if either stops.

Instructions for Intubation and Mechanical Ventilation Check one:

Do not intubate (DNI) Do not place a tube down the patient’s throat or connect to a breathing machine that pumps air into and out of lungs. Treatments are available for symptoms of shortness of breath, such as oxygen and morphine. (This box should not be checked if full CPR is checked in Section A.)

A trial period Check one or both:
Intubation and mechanical ventilation
Noninvasive ventilation (e.g. BIPAP), if the health care professional agrees that it is appropriate
Intubation and long-term mechanical ventilation, if needed Place a tube down the patient’s throat and connect to a breathing machine as long as
it is medically needed.

Future Hospitalization/Transfer Check one:
Do not send to the hospital unless pain or severe symptoms cannot be otherwise controlled.

Send to the hospital, if necessary, based on MOLST orders.

Artificially Administered Fluids and Nutrition When a patient can no longer eat or drink, liquid food or fluids can be given by a tube inserted in the
stomach or fluids can be given by a small plastic tube (catheter) inserted directly into the vein. If a patient chooses not to have either a feeding tube or IV fluids, food and fluids are offered as tolerated using careful hand feeding.

Check one each for feeding tube and IV fluids:
No feeding tube No IV fluids
A trial period of feeding tube A trial period of IV fluids
Long-term feeding tube, if needed

Antibiotics Check one:
Do not use antibiotics. Use other comfort measures to relieve symptoms.
Determine use or limitation of antibiotics when infection occurs.
Use antibiotics to treat infections, if medically indicated.
Other Instructions about starting or stopping treatments discuss
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:00 PM   #28
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Quote:
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A 100 year old female with a broken hip needs a Foley.

Maybe yes. But if they were told NO, then it should have been NO. WHich was my question, not if she needed it.

Turning her every time she needs to void is going to cause extreme pain.

Diapering her so that the urine sits against her skin causing it to break down into a bedsore is going to cause extreme pain, not to mention death, not to mention that the hospital is going to get blamed for not taking good care of her.

Having to change that diaper every time she is wet is going to cause extreme pain.

She is in a diaper no matter what. Having the foley doesn't take away her diaper.

A 100 year old female with dementia may have been screaming during a Foley insertion for a number of reasons beyond pain....fear, embarrassment, not understanding what was going on.

If she was screaming in pain, then I would agree with you that the nurses should have premedicated her with pain medicine or something to relax her...however, the concern with that in someone who is 100 years old is that they are 100 years old. Giving a lot of medication to someone who is 100 years old can be dicey at best. Medication affects the elderly far differently than younger people....It can be a "darned if you do and darned if you don't" situation.

The nurses should have followed what the family said. They have her POA and they ignored the request.

Your friend in the ER doesn't really have any pull or power elsewhere in the hospital. Frankly, if the ER chief came up to my floor to intrude in the care of one of his personal friends he'd be told to go back and run his department and let us run ours.

Well the chief wouldn't have gone to the floor, he would have spoken to their bosses. He has offered to help us in the past with any needs we might have in the hospital, whether it be in the ER or the hospital in general.


You didn't ask opinions on the surgery but I'm going to throw one out there. You stated above that if she has the surgery she probably won't survive it and if she doesn't have the surgery she'll probably die in a few months. My question would be "then why put her through surgery?"

I didn't ask since it is not my choice and I don't need anyone elses opinions about that, it is the choice of my fil, ultimately and my DH and bil if they differ in opinions. There was no choice. If we don't do the surgery then she will die a cruel inhumane death by rotting in bed (the words of her doctor, not the surgeon). Any surgery on a 100 year old women is high risk. But when she had her other hip replaced years ago, the anestisia/anesntsist almost killed her. So they would rather risk her death in surgery to give her fighting chance at a humane painless life then being bedridden.

She probably won't survive the surgery.

If she survives the surgery, what do they expect in terms of her recovery? Was she walking prior to this event? Was she able to care for herself? Was living independently or semi-independently? if she survives the surgery, will she be back to some sort of functional status or will she just be in less pain? And pain relief may be a good reason to do the surgery, but I think you all need to get an idea of what realistic expectations to have post-operatively if she survives, what will her quality of life be, how will she be cared for and by whom? In other words, what positive thing will this surgery do for her?

Yes, she was walking, with a walker, sometimes without, but she needed it. She lives in her condo with 24/7 care. She lives 10 minutes from her son, and her two grandsons, and two of her great granchildren. She usually has no idea who we are. But my DH said that when I walked into her hospital room last night, she lit up and said hello, which she hadn't been doing. She was also very happy to see her great grandchildren. Recovery?? Hopefully that she wouldn't be bedridden and would still be able to get around and be mobile, even in a limited capacity.

To be perfectly honest I think most of us were hoping she wouldn't survive the surgery and could be at rest and peace for her own sake. But that is not why the surgery was approved. It was approved so that if she did survive her quality of life would be similar to what she had before she fell.



If this were my 100 year old grandmother with dementia (and I am aware that it is not), I would think long and hard about putting her through a surgery that might kill her as opposed to doing what is neccesary to keep her comfortable and take care of her.

Not doing the surgery would be subjecting her to rotting in bed in pain and on constant pain meds. I can't think of a more cruel way to die or to do to a loved one.

In any event, I wish you well. These are not easy discussions to have or decisions to make. Just be certain you are looking at your grandmother's whole picture, quality of life etc. Sometimes the last loving thing we can do for someone is to let them go.....
We would love to let her go and be in peace, but we live in NJ, and it isn't legal. Now we can put down our pets, but not our loved ones, but I digress.

Not knowing what this morning would bring my DH brought his father from the airport to the hospital at 10:30 last night. I called our eldest to come, and he and his wife got there at 10:00 pm. We were all leaving the room but my DH, who stayed behind to tell her it would be ok if she wanted to go.

Surgery was this morning and she made it through with flying colors. She is a tough old bird. My mil (DH's mom) has said for years she is going to out live us all . They are supposed to release her in a few days to rehab, where she will be for two weeks, and then she will be sent home again.

I also informed FIL this morning while she was in surgery that I will not let him go back to Florida until he has given DH and BIL written medical POA for her for when he is not local!!
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:46 PM   #29
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OP, I am trying to sympathize with you but I am not sure what your point is starting this thread was. You seem defensive over the answers you were given. Because you have never had a broken hip I am pretty sure you do not realize how painful it is. She needs a catheter to keep the urine off of her skin. While she is still wearing a diaper it is for bowel incontinence. For urine, she would need to be changed many times a day and night which equals tremendous pain to her. With wet diapers she is at an increased risk of skin breakdown on her bottom (painful bed sores).

As a long time nurse I will try to give you some advice that I imagine you won't like much. Please remember that all of these rude nurses are most likely doing their best to take care of your family member. It's a tough job. You and your DH also have a tough job as well making decisions for someone who is 100 years old. But, the way you come across on this thread is difficult and argumentstive. Remember that those nurses do not work for the ER director. If you aren't happy, call the administrators. And also remember, a little bit of honey goes a long way. You don't want your family member to be the one patient that nobody wants to take care of. I sincerely hope she does well for the surgery. Sometimes they surprise you.
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:54 PM   #30
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A wet diaper is what causes skin breakdown not a dry one. With a foley she would be placed on a pad, not in a diaper. You said that the person who had the poa was in another state. Did the poa say no foley to the hospital? To a random nurse or to a doctor? To someone who made it a clear order? Doesn't sound like it. The md and hospital need to care for the patient and do what is best for the patient. What the patient wants is not always what the patient needs. An elderly lady with dementia ānd a broken hip needs a foley, period. It is incredibly painful to roll a person with a broken hip and if she was in bucks traction it is extremely difficult. Her circulation is impaired from the fracture and skin breakdown is a major concern as is patient comfort. As a nurse and patient advocate, I would have educated the family on why she needs it and how we will do it. If a patient is scared or confused, or difficult to cath there are ways to combat this. We can give the patient medication to calm them and have a urologist do the insertion. We can also call the OR nurses, they are very skilled in insertion of foleys. If someone ņeeds it we do everything we can to help them.
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