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Old 01-05-2013, 03:39 PM   #1
JoiseyMom
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Question for hospital Nurses

If a family of a patient says they can't put in a foley (they tried 2x and couldn't do it, and the 100 year old patient was SCREAMING in pain), can they turn around, after the family leaves and do it anyway? Isn't that violating the patients rights?
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:47 PM   #2
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This truly is not a question that could be answered by anyone not directly involved in the program of care for this specific patient. You should be asking the care providers at the facility the patient was treated in.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:55 PM   #3
JoiseyMom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dzneelvr View Post
This truly is not a question that could be answered by anyone not directly involved in the program of care for this specific patient. You should be asking the care providers at the facility the patient was treated in.

You mean the nasty women who have given my DH lots of lies and excuses and now ignoring him? Seriously?

So rules are different in different hospitals? Some will ignore what a patient wants and others will not?
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:57 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyMom View Post
You mean the nasty women who have given my DH lots of lies and excuses and now ignoring him? Seriously?

So rules are different in different hospitals? Some will ignore what a patient wants and others will not?
Go to a hospital administrator and find out. You need to go above the caregivers.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyMom View Post
You mean the nasty women who have given my DH lots of lies and excuses and now ignoring him? Seriously?

So rules are different in different hospitals? Some will ignore what a patient wants and others will not?
I think her care plan needs to be followed. some patients can;t make good choices for themselves.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:58 PM   #6
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The hospital should have a patient advocate. That is who you need to contact.

It is hard to say anything without knowing the specifics of the patient and the care received.
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:08 PM   #7
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Generally, alert and oriented patients have the right to refuse anything. I would need more information to express my opinion on whether putting the catheter in was justified, which may include conversations that occurred after family left.

Take it to the nursing care manager of the unit.
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:11 PM   #8
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As a RN absolutely not they should not go against family wishes even if the physician ordered it. Nurses are patient advocates. She is 100 yrs old and screaming in pain. If she is unable to make decisions it is up to the family. Go to hospital administration.
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyMom View Post
If a family of a patient says they can't put in a foley (they tried 2x and couldn't do it, and the 100 year old patient was SCREAMING in pain), can they turn around, after the family leaves and do it anyway? Isn't that violating the patients rights?
I don't have any advice. I just want to say I'm sorry for what your family is going through.
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:17 PM   #10
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Our 84 year old grandmother got bedsores because she was neglected at a supposedly great hospital. We contacted the head nurse and she was horrified at the lack of care her nurses were giving. I would definitely contact the administrator, and if you get nowhere with that, contact his/her boss. Keep going up until you get what you want from them.

Unfortunately though, they may have had no choice but to administer a foley if she wasn't able to urinate on her own. Was she able to use a bed pan?
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Old 01-05-2013, 05:48 PM   #11
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there are way to many variables missing from this story to give an opinion.

1) Why did she need the foley?
2) Is she mentally competent
B) If not, does she have a durable power of attorney?
3) Does she have an advanced directive or living will that states what procedures are acceptable and what are not?
4) Who placed the foley?
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badblackpug View Post
there are way to many variables missing from this story to give an opinion.

1) Why did she need the foley?
2) Is she mentally competent
B) If not, does she have a durable power of attorney?
3) Does she have an advanced directive or living will that states what procedures are acceptable and what are not?
4) Who placed the foley?
If she has an advance directive that states only comfort measures, the foley might actually be a comfort measure. If she cannot urinate, that can also be excruciatingly painful (believe me...been there done that).

Who is responsible for her care? She should have an advance directive at that age....everyone should have an advance directive. I have an advance directive at age 23 because of my chronic health issues.

The problem is, if she is not mentally competent, no advance directive and no POA, etc, things could get sticky.....

There's no clear cut answer and it's not as simple as yes or no. Wheni was creating my advance directive it was amazing the things we had to consider (pain meds, ventilator, foley cath, fluids, addition meds, CPR, etc) it's definitely not cut and dry.

This is why, no matter how difficult of a conversation it is, EVERYONE needs to have this discussion abut their medical wishes and create an advance directive.
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:45 PM   #13
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Every time my son was in the hospital there was a paper posted in every room with a number to call if you were unhappy with care. Take a look around in the drawers or bathroom for a number.
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:02 PM   #14
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Depends on Dr's orders and the patient care plan/advance directives. Who is their advocate if they are mentally incompetent of making decisions for their care?

Last edited by epcotfan; 01-05-2013 at 07:03 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:37 PM   #15
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Hospitals are obligated to tell you who to contact if you're not satisfied. Being that it's a weekend, that individual is probably not on site until Monday. However, there is usually a nursing supervisor on duty during non-business hours. I'd take this route: nurse, charge nurse, nursing supervisor


They may have also found someone who was more skilled with difficult insertions who could get it in without as much discomfort. If the patient is competent, it's not the family's decision, it's the patients.
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