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Old 01-02-2013, 07:24 PM   #151
Shaden
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Originally Posted by saskdw View Post
Everything in your post is stuff I have already posted previously. I manage a successful multi-million dollar company I don't need you to explain supply and demand to me. Focusing on my use of the word gouge is just starting an argument for the sake of arguing.
Not really, its the premise of your argument. There is a big difference between saying you think the prices are too high, or aren't worth it, verses saying you are getting gouged.

PS, you really love to number drop eh ? It doesn't make you look any better for the record, it makes you look more petty.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:29 PM   #152
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:32 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by olecow View Post
I'm aware that you can afford to go. If you choose not to that's fine. I just don't get the thinking that "I really hope Disney suffers because I don't want to pay their prices." It doesn't make sense to me. And I wan't singling out your posts.

By the way, nice subtle shot that somehow I and others are dumb because we'll pay rack rate. I'm really glad I'm too dumb to avoid being gouged. My family has a wonderful time at Disney whenever we go. I hope everyone enjoys their future vacations, no matter where they are (or how much they spend).
Actually wasn't my intent to indicate that you were dumb, I was just grouping together the people that share my opinion. If you feel you are getting the value for your money that's all that matters. Like I said before if there are enough people that feel the way you do then Disney will indeed have established market value, thus proving me wrong. Of course I want to be right. First off that means I'm right...lol, secondly means I can pay less to goto WDW.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:36 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Shaden View Post
Not really, its the premise of your argument. There is a big difference between saying you think the prices are too high, or aren't worth it, verses saying you are getting gouged.

PS, you really love to number drop eh ? It doesn't make you look any better for the record, it makes you look more petty.
The numbers are facts, that's all.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:50 PM   #155
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I admittedly didn't read through all of the posts on this thread, but did want to add that I was in complete sticker shock when I looked at the prices last night.

We have been 6 times so far and are planning a trip in December this year (19th - 25th). Since we do spend alot of time in the resort, we like to stay deluxe - but at about $650 per night for a regular room seems outrageous to me. I wouldn't pay rack because, at minimum, I would use my AAA discount, but the price is still way higher than I can believe.

We have decided to split the stay - we will stay on property for a few nights, but then we are moving over to the Ritz Carlton (at about half the price) for the remainder and will spend some time at Universal.

This will also sadly be our last trip to Disney - as much as I love it, for what we spend on a Disney vacation, we could go on two or three vacations a year and that is the choice we will make going forward. Honestly, if it weren't for the fact that we had already purchased park tickets, we probably wouldn't even take this last trip.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:00 PM   #156
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:05 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by tinkbyday View Post
I admittedly didn't read through all of the posts on this thread, but did want to add that I was in complete sticker shock when I looked at the prices last night.

We have been 6 times so far and are planning a trip in December this year (19th - 25th). Since we do spend alot of time in the resort, we like to stay deluxe - but at about $650 per night for a regular room seems outrageous to me. I wouldn't pay rack because, at minimum, I would use my AAA discount, but the price is still way higher than I can believe.

We have decided to split the stay - we will stay on property for a few nights, but then we are moving over to the Ritz Carlton (at about half the price) for the remainder and will spend some time at Universal.

This will also sadly be our last trip to Disney - as much as I love it, for what we spend on a Disney vacation, we could go on two or three vacations a year and that is the choice we will make going forward. Honestly, if it weren't for the fact that we had already purchased park tickets, we probably wouldn't even take this last trip.
I guess the question I would ask Disney management if I had the chance is do they want to be a yearly vacation destination or more of a once in a lifetime "dream" vacation destination? The first time we went we would have paid pretty much any price with in reason. We always wanted to go, were finally in a position to afford it and we would have paid big bucks if that's what it took. However as a yearly destination most people are only going to spend so much.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:26 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by saskdw View Post
First off everything in your post is your opinion, you are speaking like they are facts.......

. We just came back from a 10'day stay onsite at Universal and the prices at City Walk/Resort restaurants are significantly cheaper than WDW. I was actually amazed at how reasonable the prices were, we had budgeted more money for food than we spent. We also stayed in a Deluxe resort onsite for the price of a Mod at WDW.
I will stand by everything that I said in my post. And don't consider much of anything to be opinion. Glad to see one of the other posters supply you with the actual definition of price gouging. I'm surprised that a big time business man running a multimillion dollar operation wouldn't know the proper use of the term.

Looks like you have your answer of where to spend you hard earned big vacation dollars now that you've fallen in love with Universal. So happy for you.

I'm really not sure why someone who spends his life in the upper regions of management would not be aware of Disneys strategies when it comes to pricing and discounts. They announced YEARS ago, when the real estate bubble burst, that they would continue to raise their prices as necessary, but would be offering discounts AS NECESSARY UNTIL the economy showed signs of recovery. Apparently they feel that they are seeing those signs, and as promised, have started backing off some of their discounts. For some reason you have reacted as if they have summarily cancelled every and all discounts and special offers. But that is not the case.

You don't have to like it. And you don't have to pay for anything you don't want to. But I will bet my bottom dollar that Disney will continue to fill their resort rooms, their parks, and their restaurants until the vast majority of the world decides it is too much. Apparently your threshold has already been reached. Disney is betting that this is not the case for the vast majority of their customers. No offense, but I think I'm going to have to give Disney credit for more expertise and a keener business sense than you when it comes to the running of a multi-BILLION dollar multi-national corporation.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:29 PM   #159
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Orlando is an oligopoly, and WDW is the price leader. Unfortunately for all of us, when Disney starts to eliminate discounts and raises prices, the rest of the market (hotels, eateries, resorts, attractions) will raise their prices as well.

I'm disappointed to see that happen, as it certainly costs more since ALL options will eventually rise in price.

But I also understand that there are two possible outcomes to such a strategy - higher prices will enable WDW to generate as much or more profit from lower crowd levels, thus increasing the quality of experience for those who do participate, or it won't generate as much or more profit from lower crowd levels, and Disney will return to lower prices and/or increased use of discounts to increase the crowd levels.

The third option is that the same or larger numbers of people continue to buy at ever increasing prices, but I don't see that as an option because vacation dollars don't have the same price elasticity as, say, food or utility dollars.

I'm looking forward to an interesting year ahead - Disney is trying to do what fast food has been trying for years (moving away from dollar menus) and you can bet that anyone with an economic interest within a 50 mile radius is hoping Disney succeeds because that means they can raise their prices also.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:06 PM   #160
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Well this stinks. One of the reasons why we go during the late summer months is because of the FD, but to hear QSDP for moderate and deluxe - that stinks!

We haven't been in 3 years and I saved a bunch of money so we could go to a deluxe, based on this it sounds like we'll be at a moderate and upgrading to the BDP. There's always so much manipulation!!
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:30 PM   #161
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Free dining is what lured us into a spur of the moment (like a months notice) trip six years ago. Since then, we have gone three more times on FD. I am anticipating that the dates will not work for us anymore, so I'm planning on no FD.
I have been watching prices and I told my husband our trip might be further in the future than we thought. Honestly, with inflation, every year I feel like we make less and less. I guess I am thankful we could swing it four times in six years.
Our next trip is to Walnut Grove and my DD 10 is ecstatic. DD 4 will be another story.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:59 PM   #162
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Our 2013 trip will most likely be our last for a very long time. My kids are interested in doing other things. DH and I would also like to see other parts of the country. I love WDW though.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:06 PM   #163
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Our 2013 trip will most likely be our last for a very long time. My kids are interested in doing other things. DH and I would also like to see other parts of the country. I love WDW though.
Finally someone posts a good reason for not going. Not all this nonsense about prices. Don't be surprised if you make it back sooner than you think !In the meantime enjoy making memories across this great nation .
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:40 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by shadden
I will reiterate - you are not getting gouged, you don't seem to know the meaning of that word.

Price Gouging - pricing above the market price when no alternative retailer is available, usually in reference to necessities.

You have lots of other retailers you can go to, if Disney continues to be a viable company while charging these rates, they are in fact market rates.


My wife and I went last year on our honey moon during peak prices, we are going again in May this year during regular season prices.

Both times it was/will be a lot of money, but we are willing to pay it for "Disney" Next year, we might go somewhere else, and pay much less. But its not gouging, its getting the most they can from the market, or at least, attempting to.
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Originally Posted by saskdw View Post
Everything in your post is stuff I have already posted previously. I manage a successful multi-million dollar company I don't need you to explain supply and demand to me. Focusing on my use of the word gouge is just starting an argument for the sake of arguing.
Shaden is correct. You do not seem to know the meaning of gouge; and believe me when I say that you are quite likely not the only person managing mutil-million dollar businesses on this board.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gouge Transitive Verb
Gouge: to subject to extortion or undue exaction
Extortion: to obtain from a person by force, intimidation, or undue or illegal power

So, as to your other comment about people who "are smart enough not to allow Disney to gouge them with uncompetitive pricing." De facto that makes the assumption that people who stay on property with the dining plan stupid (the opposite of smart). I don't agree with that so lets run some numbers.
Figures. Math. Math is great.

Value resort for the time I want to stay is $90 per night. Expedia says that there are 15 hotels within a 10 mile radius that are under $75 per night. Average seems to be at the high end, about $70.

So, $70. To which I have to
1) Add transportation to and from the airport.
For 3 nights at $122 round trip for the family, that adds $40.66 per night to that hotel room. Obviously the longer I stay the cheaper it is. So say I stay for 6 nights. Now that transfer is down to $20 per night.
2) Add in parking at the parks (which I get free for staying on the property) at $14 per day

Already for my "less expensive" off property hotel I have gone from $70 per night to $104 per night (Not including taxes).

Now we start with intangibles.
1) The ability to GET the discounts we are speaking of. You can't save $1000 if you haven't chosen to stay on property.
2)The ability to get on a bus without driving. That has value to myself and my family. After a long day in the park the last thing we want to do is fight traffic getting out even if it means stopping at 5 resorts before we get to ours.
3)Extra magic hours
4)Package delivery to the resort. Those damn bags rub the blue stuff onto me.

Now, does that mean that I think that there aren't 10,000 people out there that don't believe the way I do? That $29 per night for a Knight's Inn room is fine for them? Or a $100 time share spiel suite where you listen to them talk for 2 hours to get a room is great? Sure there are.

It is all a matter of perspective and experience. Someone that lives in a place with a low cost of living will look at WDW and freak out over the prices. I've posted several times on this. Having traveled extensively, $200 a night for a hotel room is not uncommon. My boss wouldn't bat an eye if I turned that in on an expense report. Going to some of the places we have plants he would ask me why I wasn't staying in the approved hotel at $250 per night.

I live in Detroit. Likely the prices aren't the same where you are so my experience and definition of "value" is absolutely different from other people. A combo meal at McDonalds here is $6.50. More if you something other than a hamburger. Chicken sandwich is $7.50, salad is $7-8 dollars. So to go to Disney and pay $12 for a QS meal that is twice as big as a McDonald's meal is not outrageous at all.

I've been to Key West and New Orleans and paid more for table service meals than I ever have at WDW. This weird little restaurant in Key West that looks like someone's back yard with chickens running around in it...(I didn't order the chicken on the menu) was 15% more expensive than what we had at Cali Grill and was of comparable quality and quantity. Only with wild chickens instead of a view of the Night of Joy at MK.

If there wasn't demand, there would not be supply. You apparently run a multi-million dollar business. Is it or is it not good business sense to charge what you can to your customers to the limit of what they will pay while balancing out the curve? Typically the curve settles at just below the junction of the two so economically speaking Disney is not charging what it *could* and still make a similar amount of money. The problem with this is that it becomes personal to people. "Disney is pricing ME out of going". Because it affects them on an immediate level there is a higher level of connection or let down when the pricing isn't what they think it should be.

There is no substitute good for Disney and the complimentary goods (the hotels in the area) will keep pace with the primary good. Add to that the fact that Disney's marginal cost is almost negligible (what is one more unit/person on a bus or in a room or in line for a ride) but the same cannot be said for the substitute goods outside of Disney because of the lack of similar scale. But I'm sure I don't have to explain the economics to you.

There are plenty of us out there (as obvious by the fact that Disney is still in business) that will go without a discount because with both the financial side and the intangible goods we believe it is a good value (terrific in my case). But that doesn't mean we aren't smart.

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Old 01-02-2013, 10:55 PM   #165
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Disney knows that people book while waiting for a discount. They read these boards and others like it. Also people tell the agents that they are hoping for a discount. They want to fill rooms. Not have people cancel because of a lack of a discount. Esp. when even after the discounts they are coming out way ahead. If they were not they never would have begun to offer discounts. I do not think that they will pull the free dining offer from the values this year. The economy is still not that great and if some are to be believed it is going to get worst this year. Time will tell though. I was expecting higher crowds this December. Other years that we have gone at the same time with free dining was alot more crowded esp. leading up to Christmas week. That didn't happen this year. Crowds were pretty low with wait times for most rides 20 mins. or less. Except for the popular ones that usually have a long wait time whenever you go.
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