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Old 11-19-2012, 11:55 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceila

Wow, just wow. There is so much wrong with all of this that I don't even have time to go through it all. But I will say that, as a woman, I liked the "guy" movies listed better than the "girl" movies listed.
Well of course it doesn't apply to every woman. But obviously there is a great number of women that these movies DO appeal to. Doesn't make it wrong.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:00 PM   #47
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As someone who is totally immersed in the fandom including writing fan fiction (though not in the likes of Fifty Shade, I don’t do alternate universe/alternate history, but prefer to stay within the cannon) I would like to offer my humble opinion.
The Movie: Brilliant! I loved how they moved the narrative along by a) personally visiting the witnesses as it saved lots of time with backstory, b) the battle should have been written into the book rather than just alluded to. This gave a very satisfying and realistic resolution to why the battle didn’t take place. Aro is all about power AND self-preservation. Kristen as a vampire can almost act and it was great to see “happy Edward’ for a change. One scene I loved in BD2 is where Edward confesses his faults in underestimating Bella’s inner strength and courage which leads to my next point:

Character Analysis
As far as the seemingly unhealthy relationship between Edward & Bella consider:
- This story, while a love story, can also be a coming of age story where Bella finally finds herself and where she belongs. This is never more evident than when she is a vampire. I believe Ms. Meyer was very deliberate in her character naming: Bella Swan – beautiful swan that she has become instead of the ugly duckling as we met her (remember, the story is told from Bella’s point of view). She had it in her all along but was blinded by her perceptions.
- Edward, while 109 years old, is for all intents and purposes a 17 year old boy when it comes to girls. Additionally, in the time period which he was born, women were to taken care of and considered delicate – he has no other frame of reference other than his siblings whom care for each other with just as much fervor as an imprinting is for the wolves. Edward has explained that vampires don’t change much and when they do, it is permanent. Lastly, Edward has kind of sleepwalked his immortal years. He lost himself in studies and looked at attending high school as a form of purgatory for his nature with no interest in getting involved with the culture or people more than necessary to maintain the charade. Edward refers to her often as being as fragile as a soap bubble, and compared to his strength and lethal nature he is correct. You need to read “Midnight Sun.”
- With this knowledge, is it any wonder that Edward acts as does when he meets Bella? His whole world is turned upside down. He experiences romantic love/lust as he has never permitted himself as he considered himself a damned creature unworthy of such affection. And Bella is accident prone – these people exist in real life- and he feels an overwhelming need to protect her, because, face it, she needed it ( struck by the van, the gang in the parking lot, Victoria, etc).
- Bella is not the wallflower the naysayers claim she is. It was on her initiative that she moved to Forks in the first place – to help her mom in her new marriage. She is responsible in her studies, home life and work life – even when she was depressed. She cares fiercely for those she loves – when her life was in danger her first thought was always of her father. And when Edward was overbearing she made her opinions known even to the point of defying him in her relationship with Jacob. And she forgave him, so? He forgave her, too. In many respects she is like Edwards having never had the interest to form romantic relationship until he entered her life. And in the bloom of first love, who was not obsessive about their partner? Wanting to spend every waking (Edward doesn’t sleep) hour together? Feeling the rush of hormones? Speaking excessively about ‘forever’ and how handsome they are? These characters are late-bloomers, old-souls and should be given the benefit of the doubt.
Now whether you agree/accept or even like this analysis, doesn’t matter. This, I believe, is why women of all ages have embraced this story despite its anachronistic sentiments.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:07 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by frannn
I have to say that I did enjoy it, though it was a little hokey. There were so many teenage girls in the theatre that you could hear collective gasps when main characters were killed, except for when Jane (Dakota Fanning) was running away. Then there were cheers. There so much monetary incentive for them to either make a sequel or a something. Any chance for the author to branch off with one of the characters?
I sure hope not. I mean sequel after sequel after sequel...Can hollywood please, Please, PLEASE learn to let things just end on a high note and create some new material. Just my two cents oh and I have read the Twilight books/series because DS now 9 wanted too and did read them BTW. But after we saw the first movie we decided that waiting for HBO was sufficient enough to sit through Kristen Stewart barely moving her mouth and mumbling her lines. But I do not mind reading the spoilers here although if i had not read the books I would be lost so keep them coming. TEAM JACOB! I just had to do that...lol :0)
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:12 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMom
As someone who is totally immersed in the fandom including writing fan fiction (though not in the likes of Fifty Shade, I don’t do alternate universe/alternate history, but prefer to stay within the cannon) I would like to offer my humble opinion.
The Movie: Brilliant! I loved how they moved the narrative along by a) personally visiting the witnesses as it saved lots of time with backstory, b) the battle should have been written into the book rather than just alluded to. This gave a very satisfying and realistic resolution to why the battle didn’t take place. Aro is all about power AND self-preservation. Kristen as a vampire can almost act and it was great to see “happy Edward’ for a change. One scene I loved in BD2 is where Edward confesses his faults in underestimating Bella’s inner strength and courage which leads to my next point:

Character Analysis
As far as the seemingly unhealthy relationship between Edward & Bella consider:
- This story, while a love story, can also be a coming of age story where Bella finally finds herself and where she belongs. This is never more evident than when she is a vampire. I believe Ms. Meyer was very deliberate in her character naming: Bella Swan – beautiful swan that she has become instead of the ugly duckling as we met her (remember, the story is told from Bella’s point of view). She had it in her all along but was blinded by her perceptions.
- Edward, while 109 years old, is for all intents and purposes a 17 year old boy when it comes to girls. Additionally, in the time period which he was born, women were to taken care of and considered delicate – he has no other frame of reference other than his siblings whom care for each other with just as much fervor as an imprinting is for the wolves. Edward has explained that vampires don’t change much and when they do, it is permanent. Lastly, Edward has kind of sleepwalked his immortal years. He lost himself in studies and looked at attending high school as a form of purgatory for his nature with no interest in getting involved with the culture or people more than necessary to maintain the charade. Edward refers to her often as being as fragile as a soap bubble, and compared to his strength and lethal nature he is correct. You need to read “Midnight Sun.”
- With this knowledge, is it any wonder that Edward acts as does when he meets Bella? His whole world is turned upside down. He experiences romantic love/lust as he has never permitted himself as he considered himself a damned creature unworthy of such affection. And Bella is accident prone – these people exist in real life- and he feels an overwhelming need to protect her, because, face it, she needed it ( struck by the van, the gang in the parking lot, Victoria, etc).
- Bella is not the wallflower the naysayers claim she is. It was on her initiative that she moved to Forks in the first place – to help her mom in her new marriage. She is responsible in her studies, home life and work life – even when she was depressed. She cares fiercely for those she loves – when her life was in danger her first thought was always of her father. And when Edward was overbearing she made her opinions known even to the point of defying him in her relationship with Jacob. And she forgave him, so? He forgave her, too. In many respects she is like Edwards having never had the interest to form romantic relationship until he entered her life. And in the bloom of first love, who was not obsessive about their partner? Wanting to spend every waking (Edward doesn’t sleep) hour together? Feeling the rush of hormones? Speaking excessively about ‘forever’ and how handsome they are? These characters are late-bloomers, old-souls and should be given the benefit of the doubt.
Now whether you agree/accept or even like this analysis, doesn’t matter. This, I believe, is why women of all ages have embraced this story despite its anachronistic sentiments.
I do agree with you. I think you absoluty nailed it.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:05 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by luvsJack View Post
Just think about all the leading men. One of the appeals of these men is that they make women feel safe and protected. The op mentioned Romeo and Juliet, can't get much more dysfunctial than that! Or beauty and the beast with their love as old as time ; he held her hostage!!!

Its over the top romance that like the op said, appeals to young girls and their dreams of meeting their prince charming. Doesn't mean they don't want to kick butt too. Both stories can and do appeal to them.
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Well of course it doesn't apply to every woman. But obviously there is a great number of women that these movies DO appeal to. Doesn't make it wrong.
You understand what I'm saying. I am not at all saying that women should sit back and wait to be taken care of. What I am saying is that young girls do see the way that Edward and Jacob behave towards Bella as their idea of what love and romance is. As we grow and mature, we get a better understanding of how relationships should be and what is required to have that loving relationship. First and foremost is loving yourself. I think that the movies do a terrible job of this with Bella in that she is completely unable to function without Edward. However, to the immature mind, this is love. That's why many girls are so enamored with these films. It is our jobs as parents to teach our daughters that these films are purely entertainment and that while the idea of having someone absolutely love and adore you isn't wrong, there are healthier and better way to show that love than being all creepy like Edward. That said, to deny that young girls do desire this would be false - just look at how popular they are and how many girls talk about how much they love "Edward" or "Jacob".
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:36 PM   #51
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Wow, just wow. There is so much wrong with all of this that I don't even have time to go through it all. But I will say that, as a woman, I liked the "guy" movies listed better than the "girl" movies listed.
Me too! I have all three "guys" movies on blu-ray. Yikes, that essay read like an episode of Mad Men.

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“Science and experience tell us to look at the core desires of a man’s heart vs a woman’s heart. A man desires a great battle to fight with his warrior within. That energy is not universal to women, but it is to men. While women want to be pursued. Every woman wants to be fought for. Look at films that men like and women like: men love Braveheart, Gladiator, and Lord of the Rings. Men tend to like the Aragorn figure, while women are drawn to Arwen. Women want to be the beauty. Not every man wants to be the beauty. When she was little she dressed up in twirling skirts. Women love Titanic, Sleepless in Seattle, and Sense and Sensibility.”
Speaking as a woman, I would say this scene in Sleepless in Seattle better sums up the differences between how men and women react to movies.

Has this guy even seen Lord of the Rings?
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:45 PM   #52
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Me too! I have all three "guys" movies on blu-ray. Yikes, that essay read like an episode of Mad Men.



Speaking as a woman, I would say this scene in Sleepless in Seattle better sums up the differences between how men and women react to movies.

Has this guy even seen Lord of the Rings?
I laugh until I hurt every time I see the scene.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:54 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by JennaDeeDooDah

You understand what I'm saying. I am not at all saying that women should sit back and wait to be taken care of. What I am saying is that young girls do see the way that Edward and Jacob behave towards Bella as their idea of what love and romance is. As we grow and mature, we get a better understanding of how relationships should be and what is required to have that loving relationship. First and foremost is loving yourself. I think that the movies do a terrible job of this with Bella in that she is completely unable to function without Edward. However, to the immature mind, this is love. That's why many girls are so enamored with these films. It is our jobs as parents to teach our daughters that these films are purely entertainment and that while the idea of having someone absolutely love and adore you isn't wrong, there are healthier and better way to show that love than being all creepy like Edward. That said, to deny that young girls do desire this would be false - just look at how popular they are and how many girls talk about how much they love "Edward" or "Jacob".
I think for most girls and adult women, its not something they really want. Its a fantasy. I do agree that we have to give our daughters the needed lessons and tools to keep them from being that dependent.

Its like a 13 year old girl wanting the boy that wants to talk to her 24/7. When she gets that boy, she won't be able to get away from him fast enough. Just ask dd!

Most women don't really want to me taken care of. Its just a nice dream.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:57 PM   #54
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I think for most girls and adult women, its not something they really want. Its a fantasy. I do agree that we have to give our daughters the needed lessons and tools to keep them from being that dependent.

Its like a 13 year old girl wanting the boy that wants to talk to her 24/7. When she gets that boy, she won't be able to get away from him fast enough. Just ask dd!

Most women don't really want to me taken care of. Its just a nice dream.
Exactly. Fantasy and dream are better ways to put it.
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:00 PM   #55
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I just think that John Elridge pretty much nails both men and women in his book Wild at Heart.

“Science and experience tell us to look at the core desires of a man’s heart vs a woman’s heart. A man desires a great battle to fight with his warrior within. That energy is not universal to women, but it is to men. While women want to be pursued. Every woman wants to be fought for. Look at films that men like and women like: men love Braveheart, Gladiator, and Lord of the Rings. Men tend to like the Aragorn figure, while women are drawn to Arwen. Women want to be the beauty. Not every man wants to be the beauty. When she was little she dressed up in twirling skirts. Women love Titanic, Sleepless in Seattle, and Sense and Sensibility.”



I fully believe that at our core, that is what women want. Now, as time goes on and we mature, we learn that we can be perused and still able to provide for ourselves. But, at the heart of every little girl is the desire to be rescued by someone who loves and adores us.
Eh... I disagree with that entire quote. I mean, yeah, I love Pride and Prejudice (never read or seen S&S) just as much as the next person, but I think the mindset of "this is what men like" and "this is what women like" is really simplistic. I know that a lot of women do want to be "rescued" (see: my sister), but if I were to share that quote and that sentiment right now on my facebook, sooooo many of my friends would just laugh. I don't think every woman wants to be rescued or whatever, and that's why people get so excited when characters like Katniss, Hermione, Olivia Pope (from the show Scandal), etc. come along, because their existence and role in the plot is something much larger than to be a pretty face who needs to be rescued. When Twilight first came out I don't remember people saying "Finally! A girl character who falls in love!" but I do remember people saying, when THG came out, "Finally! A girl character who does something other than just fall in love!" IMO it's almost like we're starved for characters like that, and the quote you listed is sort of an overwhelming cultural trope that fuels the lack of such characters: If women want to be the beauty/want to be rescued, why portray them any other way in books, movies, TV, etc?
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:38 PM   #56
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Eh... I disagree with that entire quote. I mean, yeah, I love Pride and Prejudice (never read or seen S&S) just as much as the next person, but I think the mindset of "this is what men like" and "this is what women like" is really simplistic. I know that a lot of women do want to be "rescued" (see: my sister), but if I were to share that quote and that sentiment right now on my facebook, sooooo many of my friends would just laugh. I don't think every woman wants to be rescued or whatever, and that's why people get so excited when characters like Katniss, Hermione, Olivia Pope (from the show Scandal), etc. come along, because their existence and role in the plot is something much larger than to be a pretty face who needs to be rescued. When Twilight first came out I don't remember people saying "Finally! A girl character who falls in love!" but I do remember people saying, when THG came out, "Finally! A girl character who does something other than just fall in love!" IMO it's almost like we're starved for characters like that, and the quote you listed is sort of an overwhelming cultural trope that fuels the lack of such characters: If women want to be the beauty/want to be rescued, why portray them any other way in books, movies, TV, etc?
I think that the point being made is that girls/women want men/boys like Edward and Jacob but want to be like Hermonie or Katniss. I don't think most would want to be like bella.

Take rhett and scarlett for instance. I love the devotion he has for her and the way he wants to take care of her but I also love her for her strength and independence.
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:12 PM   #57
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I was shocked by the ending (and really pissed off until I figured out it was just a vision) but I understand completely why it was added. The end of the book was very boring and way too easy IMO. I remember thinking "WTH? That's it?" when I read it the first time so I can imagine people who had not read it would be thinking the same thing if they saw it in a movie.

Overrall I really liked the movie. The only thing I didn't like was the CGI effects with Renesmee. I would have thought they could have done a much better job with that considering the budget these movies had.
I agree with this!!! I enjoyed the movie. My favorite scenes:

- The arm wrestling scene
- Bella's realization that Jake had imprinted Renesemee
- When Jacob called her "Nessie" and Bella saying "you named my baby after the Lochness monster"
- The death of Jane and Aro
- Bella sharing her memories with Edward
- Ending credits which showed all of the characters

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Old 11-21-2012, 02:12 PM   #58
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I think that the point being made is that girls/women want men/boys like Edward and Jacob but want to be like Hermonie or Katniss. I don't think most would want to be like bella.

Take rhett and scarlett for instance. I love the devotion he has for her and the way he wants to take care of her but I also love her for her strength and independence.
Haha I think I'm the oddball because I HATED Rhett! I would've preferred a movie just about Scarlett all on her own. But I understand what you are saying.
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Old 11-21-2012, 03:01 PM   #59
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I think that the point being made is that girls/women want men/boys like Edward and Jacob but want to be like Hermonie or Katniss. I don't think most would want to be like bella.

Take rhett and scarlett for instance. I love the devotion he has for her and the way he wants to take care of her but I also love her for her strength and independence.
The point the other poster is making is that some people - like the guy quoted in the other poster's post (and I think he's beyond ridiculous and can't quite believe someone wrote that seriously in this day and age) - are saying this is an absolute and it just isn't even close.

Most women, and most girls I know do not want to be rescued or told what to do or 'taken care of' by Edward/Jacob characters, nor do they love sappy romcoms but not like action movies and etc.

It's not that they want to be like Katniss but harbour secret fantasies of being rescued by the strong, domineering type. They'd tell Edward where to get off even in their fantasies.

I know girls who think the Edward/Bella thing is just as repulsive as most women I know think it is. Yes, some people and some girls like it, and like it either as fantasy they wouldn't want or they do want that - whatever floats one's boat.

I - and I think a couple other posters, though I'm not meaning to speak for them - are saying that this is NOT a universal thing. There are plenty of girls and women who do not and never did engage in this type of fantasy or have the desire for that type of relationship.
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Old 11-21-2012, 03:16 PM   #60
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This discussion comes up everytime a twilight movie comes out. At first I had the same issues with bella's dependence. But think of all the movies, songs and books that are about love and devotion that aren't realistic and no ones really expects it to be. I think most teen girls are smarter than that.

Look at it this way, if you were trying to visit a werewolf wouldn't your husband or so want to stop you? I mean it wasn't like he was trying to keep her from shopping with her bff. Lol. Or wouldn't it make you feel better to have a vampire or werewolf in your room if there was a crazed vampire out to kill you. Personally I think its just all good fun and a fun fantasy.
I just saw this. My husband is welcome to discuss any concerns he may have regarding where I go or who I associate with. But considering I'm his wife, not his child, he doesn't get to FORBID me to do anything. And the day he had me kidnapped because I didn't follow his orders would be the last day I would be his wife.
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