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Old 11-18-2012, 09:42 PM   #31
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I don't expect normal. However, it concerns me when teenagers start confusing possessive boyfriend behavior with devotion. Someone who tells you where to go and who you may associate with doesn't love you, he views you as a possession.

And yes, for the record, I know it's fiction. However, there are a great many people (teen girls in particular) who seem to believe that Bella and Edward have the perfect relationship and wouldn't hesitate to let a boyfriend treat them that way because it means he loves her.
This. I found the series disturbing for a few reasons (mainly that dreck that badly written was published, nevermind got popular, heh) but the relationship portrayed as normal and loving was primary. I don't like girls reading it, or I suppose watching it, though it hadn't occurred to me prior to this thread that people would watch the movies without reading the books, for the above reason. Adults engaging in fantasy is different; adults engage in all manner of fantasies they'd never actually want to come true, but girls thinking this is an ok, nevermind idyllic relationship is a problem, imo.

As to Bella being the problem, I think they're both awful, thinly, sadly-drawn characters and the entire relationship is a dire mess. Her pathetic, helpless, agent-less idiocy is bad enough but if someone I know told me their bf snuck in the house to watch them sleep, I'd be taking them to the locksmith and the courthouse for a restraining order.

The part where the book goes literally blank because she ceases to exist if he's not around is particularly egregious. Not cool.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:45 PM   #32
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It's the same argument I'm seeing with 50 shades which started as twilight fan fiction

Despite the fact that 50 is really really bad writing the relationship is beyond Dom sub but controlling and abusive and its parents job to talk with their sons and daughters to say that while reading books like this is ok its not a relationship that is acceptable just because he's a billionaire or a vampire
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:06 PM   #33
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I saw it tonight. I think I would have enjoyed it more, but there was a sick child in the audience. She appeared to be about two years old. She coughed and gagged constantly for a large part of the movie. It sounded like whopping cough to me. Finally, the mom dragged the little girl out during the big fight scene. Poor baby.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:35 PM   #34
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It's been like 4 or 5 years since I read the books, so I honestly didn't remember how it ended. But, I kept thinking, I don't remember Carlisle dying. Wait, I don't remember Jasper dying.

Then we all realized it was just a premonition, WHEW, now I get it.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:38 PM   #35
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I saw it tonight. I think I would have enjoyed it more, but there was a sick child in the audience. She appeared to be about two years old. She coughed and gagged constantly for a large part of the movie. It sounded like whopping cough to me. Finally, the mom dragged the little girl out during the big fight scene. Poor baby.
She sounds like a contestant for the mother of the year award. I'm sure she had no clue the poor child was ill (insert sarcasm here)
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:40 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Kurby
It's the same argument I'm seeing with 50 shades which started as twilight fan fiction

Despite the fact that 50 is really really bad writing the relationship is beyond Dom sub but controlling and abusive and its parents job to talk with their sons and daughters to say that while reading books like this is ok its not a relationship that is acceptable just because he's a billionaire or a vampire
I agree. I also think we need to give teen girls a little credit.

I was kidding dd about waking up and finding the boy that likes her standing there staring at her. She said he better be able to dodge my softball bat.

Rhett and scarlett were mentioned earlier. My favorite book, btw. Rhett raped his wife!!! So while I think his undying love was oh so romantic, I also know that is not a healthy thing to happen on a relationship.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:02 AM   #37
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I'm not really a fan of the Twilight books, but because my students were and I wanted to encourage them in their reading, we did do a small session on Twilight. We even had a discussion about it during class and I personally am able to see exactly what women love about it.

Stephanie Meyer did an excellent job of hooking girls/women by having them revert back to who they were when they were 12, 13, and 14 years old. During this time, you knew little more about love than how you saw it expressed on television and the relationships around you. Now, here in the real world, the idea of your boyfriend breaking into your house and watching you sleep is stalker creepy. Any one of us would call the cops on him. However, when you are 13, and your heart aches for the love you see between Cinderella and Prince Charming, Romeo and Juliette, or Lancelot and Guinevere, you will not see it as creepy. It's loving and romantic. You have a man who cannot bear the thought of being away from you for even a second. This man wants to love and protect you every minute of every day. Think back to the scene where those scuzzballs are surrounding Bella and are clearly wanting to do less-than-honorable things to her. Then, Edwards comes driving up in his car like a mad man. He saves Bella and scares those guys away. In every young girl's heart, she does dream of that knight in shining armor coming to save her. She wants to be rescued and taken care of. Edward is just the man to do that.

Then you have Jacob. Jacob is everything that Edward is. He is strong, protective, and passionate. When Bella is broken hearted, Jacob is there to pick up the pieces. Jacob wants to save Bella and longs to be with her every minute of every day, as well. Like Edward, there is a heir of mystery about him and the security that nothing bad could ever possibly happen to you when you are around him. Also, just like Edward, he is more than willing to put his life on the line day in and day out just to protect Bella. He will turn his back on his friends and family for her. Nothing matters more than Bella.

In the heart of a young teenage girl, this is a dream come true. She hasn't been forced to give up the silly dreams of girlhood yet, and is able to see love as something that is put up on the silver screen. She doesn't realize the importance of providing for herself. She doesn't realize that love isn't like what Jacob and Edward have for Bella. Love is about loving and respecting yourself and finding someone who loves and respects himself, as well. Then, the two of you getting to know each other and having a beautiful life together where you love and support one another. To a young teen, that's boring. Where's the adventure? Where's the excitement? We, as adults, have learned what real love is all about and what makes for a beautiful, healthy, and loving relationship. But when you're 13, the relationship your parents have is boring. You want that man who is strong - practically invincible - and who heart beats so strongly for you that he can think of nothing else than being with you at all times.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:13 AM   #38
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What was the film rated? Seems awful violent for the parents that are bringing 7 year olds to see it.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:21 AM   #39
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In every young girl's heart, she does dream of that knight in shining armor coming to save her. She wants to be rescued and taken care of. Edward is just the man to do that.
If I believed that to be true, that every girl wants to be rescued and has no thoughts of agency or independence and this controlling, creepy, stuff is what every teen girl dreams of, I think I'd throw in the towel on humanity, heh.

I know a couple of girls into Twilight, but a bunch are not only not, they're as repulsed by Bella, Edward and the thing as most adults I know. They don't want to be taken care of and rescued; they want to take care of themselves and kick some butt.

Hence the popularity of Katniss. She's a mess (and that series falls apart like heck) but she's not useless. I know more than one mother who was very uneasy about Twilight (though their kids weren't at all admiring of it), but who was happy to spring for a bow and arrow and etc.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:42 AM   #40
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If I believed that to be true, that every girl wants to be rescued and has no thoughts of agency or independence and this controlling, creepy, stuff is what every teen girl dreams of, I think I'd throw in the towel on humanity, heh.

I know a couple of girls into Twilight, but a bunch are not only not, they're as repulsed by Bella, Edward and the thing as most adults I know. They don't want to be taken care of and rescued; they want to take care of themselves and kick some butt.

Hence the popularity of Katniss. She's a mess (and that series falls apart like heck) but she's not useless. I know more than one mother who was very uneasy about Twilight (though their kids weren't at all admiring of it), but who was happy to spring for a bow and arrow and etc.
I just think that John Elridge pretty much nails both men and women in his book Wild at Heart.

“Science and experience tell us to look at the core desires of a man’s heart vs a woman’s heart. A man desires a great battle to fight with his warrior within. That energy is not universal to women, but it is to men. While women want to be pursued. Every woman wants to be fought for. Look at films that men like and women like: men love Braveheart, Gladiator, and Lord of the Rings. Men tend to like the Aragorn figure, while women are drawn to Arwen. Women want to be the beauty. Not every man wants to be the beauty. When she was little she dressed up in twirling skirts. Women love Titanic, Sleepless in Seattle, and Sense and Sensibility.”



I fully believe that at our core, that is what women want. Now, as time goes on and we mature, we learn that we can be perused and still able to provide for ourselves. But, at the heart of every little girl is the desire to be rescued by someone who loves and adores us.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:01 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by cornflake

If I believed that to be true, that every girl wants to be rescued and has no thoughts of agency or independence and this controlling, creepy, stuff is what every teen girl dreams of, I think I'd throw in the towel on humanity, heh.

I know a couple of girls into Twilight, but a bunch are not only not, they're as repulsed by Bella, Edward and the thing as most adults I know. They don't want to be taken care of and rescued; they want to take care of themselves and kick some butt.

Hence the popularity of Katniss. She's a mess (and that series falls apart like heck) but she's not useless. I know more than one mother who was very uneasy about Twilight (though their kids weren't at all admiring of it), but who was happy to spring for a bow and arrow and etc.
Just think about all the leading men. One of the appeals of these men is that they make women feel safe and protected. The op mentioned Romeo and Juliet, can't get much more dysfunctial than that! Or beauty and the beast with their love as old as time ; he held her hostage!!!

Its over the top romance that like the op said, appeals to young girls and their dreams of meeting their prince charming. Doesn't mean they don't want to kick butt too. Both stories can and do appeal to them.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:36 AM   #42
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I'm honestly glad you enjoy it and all but that's just .... so not true. Most women I know are pretty horrified by that relationship. To each her own, just saying.
Yeah I find the relationship odd and obsessive. And smothering. But that is JMO
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:10 AM   #43
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I just think that John Elridge pretty much nails both men and women in his book Wild at Heart.

“Science and experience tell us to look at the core desires of a man’s heart vs a woman’s heart. A man desires a great battle to fight with his warrior within. That energy is not universal to women, but it is to men. While women want to be pursued. Every woman wants to be fought for. Look at films that men like and women like: men love Braveheart, Gladiator, and Lord of the Rings. Men tend to like the Aragorn figure, while women are drawn to Arwen. Women want to be the beauty. Not every man wants to be the beauty. When she was little she dressed up in twirling skirts. Women love Titanic, Sleepless in Seattle, and Sense and Sensibility.”



I fully believe that at our core, that is what women want. Now, as time goes on and we mature, we learn that we can be perused and still able to provide for ourselves. But, at the heart of every little girl is the desire to be rescued by someone who loves and adores us.
Wow.
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:20 AM   #44
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What was the film rated? Seems awful violent for the parents that are bringing 7 year olds to see it.

Yes I took my 7 year old to see it. Based of the first ones there wasn't really anything to shield her from except a few make out scenes. They did t show any violence at least not on the tv that we watched them on

I based my decision on knowing the book and knowing there wasn't any violence to be scene from there

Only 1 vampire died at the end of the book and it was written that she was sheilded in the book so she might need to turn her head

Turns out I needed to tell her Edward and bella were hugging and the she needed to turn her head two or three times
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:42 AM   #45
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I just think that John Elridge pretty much nails both men and women in his book Wild at Heart.

“Science and experience tell us to look at the core desires of a man’s heart vs a woman’s heart. A man desires a great battle to fight with his warrior within. That energy is not universal to women, but it is to men. While women want to be pursued. Every woman wants to be fought for. Look at films that men like and women like: men love Braveheart, Gladiator, and Lord of the Rings. Men tend to like the Aragorn figure, while women are drawn to Arwen. Women want to be the beauty. Not every man wants to be the beauty. When she was little she dressed up in twirling skirts. Women love Titanic, Sleepless in Seattle, and Sense and Sensibility.”



I fully believe that at our core, that is what women want. Now, as time goes on and we mature, we learn that we can be perused and still able to provide for ourselves. But, at the heart of every little girl is the desire to be rescued by someone who loves and adores us.
Wow, just wow. There is so much wrong with all of this that I don't even have time to go through it all. But I will say that, as a woman, I liked the "guy" movies listed better than the "girl" movies listed.
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