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Old 11-14-2012, 06:29 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by zoemurr View Post
need to go that far.. we are in Penfield NY a suburb of Rochester. Pittsford HS (also in Rochester) is constantly rated one of the best high schools in NY. There is also a school in Buffalo (City Honors School at Fosdick-Masten Park) that is ranked very high in the nation.

DD read at 2 and skipped 1st grade. In 8th grade she took Geometry, Biology, and Spanish (although she could have taken French). While this is an advanced schedule about 40 kids took it so it is not unusual. There are AP classes for every subject starting in 10th grade. Finding things to challenge her has not been a problem. I know there are some classes that you can take in correlation with local colleges here, but we aren't to that yet so we haven't looked into it.

I think a large public school in a nice suburb would most likely meet your needs. Our school is not uncommon for our area. The Davidson Institute looks amazing but is only for the top 1% of kids. The SAT would be the entrance exam I believe. (DD took this and was close, but not quite there last year.)

While Ivy League schools will look at schedule and grades, she will also need to be well rounded. Is she doing any clubs and volunteer work?


Good luck!
This is an important point I think.

You say she wants to go to Harvard - that's a nice goal to have, it's a lovely school. However, it honestly doesn't matter much what she does or how fast she does it, her chances of getting into Harvard are incredibly slim regardless, so I wouldn't encourage an idea that she can get in if she just... whatever.

Their acceptance rate was running someplace <7% last I saw. That's 7% of kids who all had reason to believe they had enough of a shot that they went to the trouble and expense of applying to Harvard.

Even for kids with perfect SATs, 5.0 GPAs, who are 14 and play three instruments, it's still a low, pretty random chance as to whether they'd get in. I mean anyone may, just saying I'd not raise her expectations too highly that it'd be a lock for her.

I know kids with very, very high test scores, grades, great recs, from fantastic schools - who have everything from captaining teams to building houses for the poor in Ecuador or whatever, who don't even bother applying to Harvard, because they figure it's like buying a $75 lottery ticket.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:30 AM   #62
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Yes and the current plan i have a meeting to discuss with school is for her to finish high school in2 years which means i'll have a 14 college student
Why in the world would you do that? Dd16 could probably graduate now - she always took academic classes as electives (she's taking honors accounting now for college credit, for fun), always had zero period, and this is her first year with a lunch period. There is NO WAY I want her to graduate early and go to college.

What are your dd's passions? For college admission, they want to see a continuance of something she loves, that she is a leader in, something she's stuck with. Dd is music and theater (HS choirs, All State, Regional, tons of plays...), ds14 is soccer, music, and theater (same as dd, plus has been playing soccer since the age of 4, starter on his freshman team). Focus on getting her involved in something she loves outside of school.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:35 AM   #63
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Why would you think that anonymous people on a message board would give the best advice? That's not the smartest way to steer your child in the right direction.
Phhht, what would you know? You're a lazy so and so who just sits about on their day off! I think we're all giving *brilliant* advice!
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:35 AM   #64
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I thought the same thing at first, but her DD is only 11 years old and in 8th grade. She could have a 12 year old in high school next year.
That's pretty bright. But, in our district there are plenty of 11 year olds taking Algebra. At least 4 from my DD's elementary school I can think of right off the top of my head were placed that way. All 8th graders here take their first year of a foreign language. My DD is advanced 1 year (in 8th, should be in 7th) and taking a few 9th grade classes. She's categorized as gifted. But, it's not Davidson gifted. I believe those kids tend to be the ones doing Algebra at 7. I know one child like that. That doesn't mean the OP's daughter isn't profoundly gifted, but we can't really tell with the information given. We know now that early reading isn't a great measure of aptitude. Many people with high IQs read very early. Many don't. Many people with average IQs also read very early. It's just not a great indicator.

OP, does your daughter have a GIEP? I don't know the NY laws, but I know the PA ones. A district can't really say they can't educate a child. They are required by law to educate everyone, even if that means paying for an out of district placement. Now, I'm thinking there is still possibility for your DD in your district. If she's in algebra now, there will still be algebra 2, geometry, trig, calculus, etc. They must also offer at least chemistry and physics. Good teachers know how to go into additional depth within their subject areas. Personally, I'd try and work with individual teachers on enriching the current curriculum. That tends to be a good strategy for most (not all) advanced students.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:36 AM   #65
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In NY state alone, you have a great number of options available to you. I agree with other posters that most deadlines have passed or are about to. What I don't understand is why are you alone in this search? The guidance counselor should be able to point you in the right direction as well. IMO, I don't think she should be in college yet, just a very high achieving hs where she can be with her peers academically and have a normal hs experience socially.

I would start calling schools today. It's probably too late to test for the specialized high schools such as Stuyvesant, But there are other schools who have their own tests and interview process. In NYC some choices are Beacon High School and Bard High School Early College. There are also many parochial, and private schools, boarding and day schools in NY as well as New England. She might be eligible for academic scholarships. Speak to her guidance counselor. Good luck.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:58 AM   #66
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While I am sure your dd is bright, you might find that once she finds a place in a school with more challenging options...she'll be on par with her peers. In other words, perhaps she is really, really gifted---or perhaps she just needs a broader peer group.
Yep. She may be very bright...however right now she is the big fish in a very small pond. Put her in a big pond and she may be closer to average, albeit on the bright side.

I'm not trying to downplay your daughter's intelligence, however it's also best not to inflate it too high.

Sounds to me that you are in a sub-par school, that doesn't challenge the brighter students. Here in Montgomery County, MD, from what you have described, she doesn't seem profoundly gifted by any stretch of the imagination. Most of our kids take algebra in 8th grade and the ones that are above grade level like my son, take it in 7th. It's not at all unusual for 6th graders to take algebra. Yes, she's 11, but at this time in the school year, my daughter was an eighth-grader and wasn't bumped ahead or anything else. She was 4 when she started K, which at the time corresponded with the age cut-off.

I've known plenty of kids who started to read at 2-3 years old, who have been educated in our public schools.




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If she was were she was supposed to be age wise she would be in 6th grade this year. Take into account some kids being left back she is in her math class with 15 & 16 yr olds too.
I wouldn't base it on what your district does....at the very least it's not competitive.

I would hate for your daughter to end up at an exclusive school where she is struggling one way or another. Perhaps her test scores will indicate she needs to be at such a place, however don't be surprised if they don't.

I can understand your daughter being willing to move, however I'm a bit surprised that she's so in favor of it. Doesn't she have friends, both school and neighborhood, that she will be sad about leaving?
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:12 AM   #67
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OP--WHO is the impetus for the meetings in which the school says they can;t do much more for your child? Are THEY feeling she has nothing to gain from them and calling you in, or are you (or she) pushing for harder academics and they are throwing up their hands and saying they cannot meet your demands?


Do you feel that your daughter will have all the skills she needs for college in 2 years? Not just academically, but otherwise? Can she cook basic meals? Meet with professors on her own? Does she know how to ask for help when she is confused (very likely not--as a big fish in a small pond she may not have needed to up to now)? Handle her own bedtimes, study times, scheduling extras, etc? Handle her own finances? Get herself where she needs to be on foot or public transit or bike? Handle herself at the doctor and manage self care with minor illnesses? Integrate herself into a new social group with no help from teachers or parents? Handle dating and other relationships? Etc? Etc? SERIOUSLY think about if she is really ready for college and can get no more out of highschool before you send her off.

Oh, and for what t s worth my DD was 12 the first half of 8th grade. She took algebra then (well retook it as there was no choice to be higher in the German schools and t was good to learn German terms anway) and was on a big Shakespeare kick in 2nd and 3rd grades (I don't think she ever read Moby Dick). She is a very bright kid, but so are MANY other kids out there. Your daughter might be truly beyond even normal "giftedness"--but nothing you have posted (other than possibly reading by age 2--though even then do you mean Dr Seuss books or chapter books) indicates more than a typical bright kid that you will find several of in a good sized school. say this only as fair warning so that you and she do not get your hopes up too high about her being able to get in to "any" school at all and also so that she can be realistic about the WORK she might well have to do when she gets into a more rigorous program.

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I think you may be my new best friend (and I spent my Junior year in Heidelberg- lovely town!). ITA. Her teen years shouldn't be just about academics. There's so much opportunity to find areas outside of school where she can really excel. Don't push the academics to the point where they become her life (which is what will happen if you're aiming to get her into college at 14!).
Thanks, I think Heidelberg is gorgeous to-- am lucky to get to live here

Sadly, it took me some trial and error with my own daughter to figure that out. She is very bright (NOT profoundly gifted by any stretch--just very bright and a quick learner) and was often bored and frustrated with school and wanting MORE.
I wish I had stopped allowing her to have constantly more and stopped pushing for it to be provided a little sooner really. All that time she spent with her head in a book was time she was not spending developing skills which came a little harder to her (like socializing with normal people ). I mean she had some friends always, and she did have other interests (karate, girl scouts, etc) but she spent inordinate amounts of time burried in books and the more she did the less common ground she had to share with others (talking about music or moves or whatever).
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:17 AM   #68
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She was potty trained at 13 months
That is an indictor of nothing. My dd didn't potty train until 3 1/2 and she took algebra last year as a 7th grader. She's now in geometry and german 3. Personally I'd be comparing the quality of education she's getting against top public districts in your area. It sounds like what you're dealing with is a bright kid in a below average district. Quality schools don't look to push kids through and out at 14.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:17 AM   #69
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My dh went to college when he was 14. I'm talking living in the dorms, the whole bit. His parents lived in another country too. It worked out very well for him but it's not what we want for our kids. Our oldest son is smarter than his father (we have both of their IQ scores) and we are looking at what options we have for keeping him with his age peers. We just learned that our 20 month son knows most of his alphabet and I'm not sure how. We know we didn't teach him and he didn't learn it at school.

Since it's really hard to for you to know how intelligent she is based on her school I would get her IQ tested. I don't think the SAT or SSAT would be helpful because you don't know if she's exposed to the information she'd need to live up to her potential on those tests or whether she's close to maxing out where she is. Once you've gotten her test scores I'd read the book The Five Levels of Gifted and possibly consult with the author. She's an expert on working with gifted children and instead of applying to those schools blindly I think she'd be able to best point you in the right direction. I'd hate for y'all to move across the country to a different school only to find out it's not the right fit for your daughter.

You also need to consider if you can afford to move and what you'll do financially when you get there. A lot of these recommended parts of the country are probably much more expensive than what you're used to. I know you want to do what's best for your child but encouraging her fantasies of Harvard (maybe she will get in but there's lots of other great schools to consider) and telling her you'll move anywhere in the world unless you have unlimited financial resources aren't doing any favors. Remember she's still just a kid and you're not doing any favors by not still treating her like she's your kid. My mom has a below average IQ and IQ wise I am much smarter than her. One of the best things my mom did for me and now for my older son is encourage us to live up to our potential in all ways while at the same time treating our intelligence as just one part of who we are and sometimes not the most important part.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:19 AM   #70
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I can understand your daughter being willing to move, however I'm a bit surprised that she's so in favor of it. Doesn't she have friends, both school and neighborhood, that she will be sad about leaving?

THAT right there is a huge red flag that the OPs DD has been pushing herself (or pushed by mom or both) academically to the point of not concentrating in other crucial areas of development--like social skills.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:42 AM   #71
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I think taking the SATs or a similar test would be a good starting point to finding out what she really needs. If she scores a perfect 2400, you know you're on the right track, looking for a very competitive HS environment.

I used to live in upstate NY, I know the kind of central school you describe. We moved 4 years ago--my oldest is doing fine in this (much larger, very competitive) school district, and it's great for her because she has a nice circle of friends who are also smart and motivated. There are lots more opportunites for her both academically and socially.

A few things concern me--you say your DD wants to move. I have to tell you, when we moved, my older two were 13 and 11--they most definitely did NOT want to move! They didn't want to leave their friends, their house, the only town they'd ever lived in. It sems odd to me that a child would be asking to move as if these things meant nothing to her. Now, my kids would tell you, today, that moving was the right thing to do. 4 years ago...not so much.

I'm also concerned that you would even mention potty training--who cares? That's parent-led, and not an indicator of intelligence in any way. reading is frequently parent-led as well. Which leads me to my next concer...

Is this about her driving the bus, or you? Your DD doesn't seem to have a very realistic view of her future. Yeah, sure, it's fun for most 11yos to fantasize about going to Harvard, becoming a vet, or flying helicopters. But, a mature child will realize that those are fantasies. The reality is that Harvard's acceptance rate is dreary and half their students were valedictorian. It's tougher to get into vet school than regular med school. And flying helicopters takes a lot of time, money, and skill. Any of these things are attainable, but they require huge effort and focus. Your DD's goals don't sound like mature thought has gone into them. I don't mean that as criticism--she's a child, it's nice to have "fantasy" goals, and the basic concepts of hard work and focus are a common denominator.

I wish you luck in your school search, I hope you gain some clarity.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:51 AM   #72
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Because they cant give her a rigorous enough education. we a a very rural school we have 500 in grades k - 12.
You are in a school that goes up to 12th grade, yet your gifted 8th grade daughter is only taking Algebra? Why isn't she taking a higher math? Algebra is VERY standard for 8th grade.

There are more advanced math classes in your very school (again, it goes up to 12th grade, they HAVE to offer higher math classes). I don't know why you would move if she is not taking these higher classes in your very own school.

No way is she going to "graduate in 2 years" if she is currently taking an on-grade-level in math.

Something is not adding up here

When will she be 12? If it is soon, she isn't even that young to be in 8th grade. Again, something just seems off about this entire situation.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:54 AM   #73
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Is there reason to believe the OP's daughter is at the level of profoundly gifted?

She may well be - but what I get from the posts is that she's in 8th grade, taking three h.s. freshman-level classes and the OP has always asked for extra work and etc. for her.

Which, as I said, may mean she's profoundly gifted. It also may mean she's a quite bright kid in an average school. As another poster mentioned, it may be that she'd get into a better school and find herself about the correct level instead of far ahead.

I'm not sure what testing there's been or anything or what level the school is, but a good h.s. may be perfectly appropriate.

Yep..

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Reading at 2 is a good indicator.
I was reading at 2...and trust me, while I am smart, I am far from gifted. Reading at 2 is NOT a good indicator, IMO!

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No it's not.
Ditto.

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No offense, but taking algebra in 8th grade isn't advanced in our district. It's what is offered to kids at that grade level. The kids who are a little more advanced took algebra in 7th grade & have geometry in 8th. It just sounds like you're in a district that isn't very competitive. My advice is to research the public school districts around you & see if you can move over the summer.
My kids go to a very small Catholic school, with no "gifted" or "AP" classes. Algebra is standard, however, starting 1st quarter of 7th grade. So, an 8th grader taking Algebra is nothing, IMO...they also do Geometry in 8th grade, OP - sounds like your kid is in a very basic school. I wouldn't worry about anything more than sending her to a public school with more opportunities around you..
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:02 AM   #74
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OP you have received very good advice here.

I think you need to have some IQ testing done and see where you DD truly is. Most of the public schools in my area offer Algebra in middle school (DS is currently taking it as did my other 2 sons in middle school).

My 4 kids have all tested into the Gifted and Talented program. While I want my kids to learn, I also want them to be well rounded. You can go dig up a thread of mine from last year when my DD was not being challenged in 4th grade. I received lots of good advice to keep her where she was and encourage other learning opportunities. I did and she is flourishing in academics, social and emotional development.

The public high school my kids feed into has MANY AP classes that the kids take starting in 9th grade. When oldest DS started there I told the principal I wanted him to be challenged. The principal looked and DS schedule and had a good laugh and said "Oh with this schedule he will be challenged." And he was he had a load of 5 AP classes and rigourus extracurriculars on top.

That DS graduated Valedictorian and had an amazing resume and ACT scores, but found that getting into his chosen top colleges was very difficult and competitive. No longer are they the big fish, but find themselves to be just one of the many fish in the school. He is doing well at an in state college which actually will provide many opportunities for him.

Sometimes when people come from smaller schools, they have perceptions of the larger high schools not being safe, until they actually visit the campus and get a feel for it. Maybe some high school campus visits in your surrounding area could be in order.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:13 AM   #75
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THAT right there is a huge red flag that the OPs DD has been pushing herself (or pushed by mom or both) academically to the point of not concentrating in other crucial areas of development--like social skills.
Or it could be an indicator that she just doesn't have a lot in common with the kids around her. The whole "high school experience" doesn't work with some temperments.
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