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Old 10-16-2012, 06:39 PM   #16
Dean
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Originally Posted by MrShiny View Post
Well, that means that there is almost always a market. ROFR means that you can always sell your DVC - albeit at below market prices. However if this is after you've extracted the value you intended from the membership, that can be a good thing.
ROFR doesn't help selling and it may hurt selling in some cases. It may at times give you a better return if you sell but it depends on specifics and the activity within the market.
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Old 10-22-2012, 11:55 PM   #17
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time value of money not inputted

You have not inputted the IRR on your purchase. As Points cannot be raised for an accomodation (unless points are lowered somewhere in the Point Rate chart for that resort), you have "locked" in the costs of your vacation at today's dollars. Yes, you "prepaid" for your future vacation years, but you also have to take into account that the costs to buy points will go up every year as well and the $ amount of resales/pt will as well.

The costs of cash rentals will continue to go up every year for rental of hotels/cash basis resort rentals, but yours will not.

Annual dues will continue to climb to account for increased costs and inflation. But sales tax amounts for other types of rentals (hotels) will increase as well as the base rental dollar to rent that room will go up as well.

The key is: If you are going to go on vacation every year anyway, buying most timeshares and especially DVC timeshare is the best investment you can make.
Consider that you can rent out points for a net value/pt at about $6 ($10-$4) estimate of how much you can rent and how much you pay per year in annual dues, you can estimate the # pts/year times the # of years you still have for the timeshare and calculate the NPV of that # at a % that you come up- say 5,10, 15% and then compare to what you paid originally for your pts, then you can estimate whether it was a good purchase.
You still have other variables such as deduction for property taxes you pay with your annual on your own personal taxes, opportunity costs of investing your money elsewhere along with many other variables.

But remember, as Disney told me in 1993, don't look at this as an investment.

Yeah right. With the free park passes every year from our becoming a member in March 1993 until 12/31/99, how little we paid compared to now, how much money we have made on renting out our points on a couple of occassions, and the amount of money we have saved by using points in DVC instead of hotels either off or especially on property, it's been one of the best "investments" we have ever made.
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:22 AM   #18
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Don't forget the "hidden costs" or more accurately, additional costs: airfare, food/ beverage, park tickets, and merchandise purchases every time you visit WDW.
This.

There are a few DVCers who go just to stay in the condos, mostly cook for themselves, and don't really visit the parks. They are a tiny minority. And, the price of tickets, food, etc. at WDW is only going to go up.
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:30 PM   #19
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This.

There are a few DVCers who go just to stay in the condos, mostly cook for themselves, and don't really visit the parks. They are a tiny minority. And, the price of tickets, food, etc. at WDW is only going to go up.
While these are good points, and should be considered before purchase, the pp who said it's a prepaid vacation at today's dollars makes a good point. It's definitely not for all disney vacationers, but I know a few over the past few years that SHOULD have bought in. They could have it paid off by now with some of the trips they took, staying at AKV, SSR and such at cash prices.

You should never buy if you THINK you are going to disney or MIGHT do disney a lot. We never thought it would be for us, but after 3 trips in 3 years, we realized it's a vacation we love, and our kids love. After 6 months of NOT being at Disney, we start craving it. That's when I knew it might be for us.
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:53 PM   #20
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Contracts that are small seem to resell very quickly, and of course contracts with points available to use do to. I spent months trying to find a smallish contract but everytime I called it was "just under contract."

Finally found a 90 point one at SSR that had 130 points loaded into it and called maybe 1/2 hour it went public.

We close early December!
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:55 AM   #21
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pp who said it's a prepaid vacation at today's dollars makes a good point.
I'd actually amend it to be "it's prepaid vacation lodging at today's dollars." Just the lodging. Nothing else.

That's not a bad deal if, like Luckyman, you KNOW you will be returning to Disney regularly. Something saved is better than nothing, after all. But, that's the deal.
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Old 10-26-2012, 08:48 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by spencerbomar View Post
You have not inputted the IRR on your purchase. As Points cannot be raised for an accomodation (unless points are lowered somewhere in the Point Rate chart for that resort), you have "locked" in the costs of your vacation at today's dollars. Yes, you "prepaid" for your future vacation years, but you also have to take into account that the costs to buy points will go up every year as well and the $ amount of resales/pt will as well.
First, I want to thank everyone for their insights and experience that they have brought to me in this forum. It is refreshing to hear about the pros and cons that you brought up.

This question above was particularly interesting, are there any charts or data about the increase in point rates over time?

Does Disney maintain properties, what about assessments, have there ever been any? (I live in a condo so assessments are the killer cost that most people don't think about.)

For us, we plan on going every 2-3 years so a small point about is perfect. One big benefit I see is saving money on hotel tax and being able to use the Disney Express from airport (no car rental/parking needed). We stayed offsite last year and the transportation really added up.

Thanks again everyone!
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Old 10-26-2012, 09:13 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Goonie78 View Post
This question above was particularly interesting, are there any charts or data about the increase in point rates over time?
the stickied thread above:

DVC Resource Center

post 2 has historical annual dues and post 5 has historical direct pricing.

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Does Disney maintain properties, what about assessments, have there ever been any?
the annual dues have so far been high enough that assessements have not been needed. but vero beach nearly had an assessment several years back due to storm damage (and OKW's extension was technically an "assessment" but if you opted out, there was no cost).
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Old 10-26-2012, 09:25 AM   #24
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Thanks, I was wondering about the history of point rates in this sense: If it cost x number of points per to rent a studio at the Beach Club Villas in 2012, how many points did it cost for that same room at that same time in 1999-2011 for each year.

Thanks!
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Old 10-26-2012, 09:37 AM   #25
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Thanks, I was wondering about the history of point rates in this sense: If it cost x number of points per to rent a studio at the Beach Club Villas in 2012, how many points did it cost for that same room at that same time in 1999-2011 for each year.
as the other poster said: "points cannot be raised for an accommodation (unless points are lowered somewhere in the Point Rate chart for that resort)."

i know at OKW the cheapest studio season started at 7 pts per night. then went to 8 pts per nt for 15 years and are currently at 10 pts per nt. but the highest pt costs at OKW also had to come down...in order for weeknights (sun-thurs) to get more expensive, weekend nights had to get cheaper.

so the total number of pts it would take to book every villa at OKW for a year has been fixed since 1991...but if you counted on booking 7 pt weeknights in december in a studio, pts costs for you would have gone up. if you tended to use OKW pts for long weekends and new year's eve, point costs have gotten cheaper.

edited to add: did a little google-fu and dvcnews provides what you wanted to see:

http://dvcnews.com/index.php/resorts...s/points-chart

so low season studios went from 12 pts to 15 pts per weeknight...but premiere season weekend studio nights dropped from 43 pts per nt to 28 pts per nt. (i believe the BCV point chart did not change from the time the resort opened to 2008/2009 as shown.)
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Last edited by chalee94; 10-26-2012 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 10-27-2012, 02:39 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Goonie78 View Post
First, I want to thank everyone for their insights and experience that they have brought to me in this forum. It is refreshing to hear about the pros and cons that you brought up.

This question above was particularly interesting, are there any charts or data about the increase in point rates over time?

Does Disney maintain properties, what about assessments, have there ever been any? (I live in a condo so assessments are the killer cost that most people don't think about.)

For us, we plan on going every 2-3 years so a small point about is perfect. One big benefit I see is saving money on hotel tax and being able to use the Disney Express from airport (no car rental/parking needed). We stayed offsite last year and the transportation really added up.

Thanks again everyone!
VB just dodged a Special Assessment. If your looking at a trip every 2-3 years, I'd buy about a 10% cushion at least depending on what you're looking at. For this situation you're likely better just renting.
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Old 10-27-2012, 04:42 PM   #27
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I'd actually amend it to be "it's prepaid vacation lodging at today's dollars." Just the lodging. Nothing else.

That's not a bad deal if, like Luckyman, you KNOW you will be returning to Disney regularly. Something saved is better than nothing, after all. But, that's the deal.
In some ways, this IS the bad deal with DVC. DVC can make your accommodations affordable. But park tickets have really gone up during our decade plus of ownership - plus our 2 and 3 year old are now 13 and 14 - adult tickets and adult food for four is way more expensive than child tickets for one, one getting in free, and they can split a kids meal. Airfare for four isn't cheap either.

Dues have gone up, but they are such a small portion of our overall vacation expenses that its really negligible. Its the increased cost of park tickets, food and airfare that make me wonder if we got a good deal or not. I think we got an awesome deal on our accommodations, but that's a pittance in terms of the overall cost.

Also, while some families know they are Disney families, our 13 and 14 year old don't NEED to be going to Disney. Given a choice, a beach is nice, so is an interesting city.
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