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Old 10-04-2012, 08:49 PM   #271
jujube
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Originally Posted by LisaR View Post
I personally don't hear anyone here saying they are perfect.

I do believe we (DH & I) work hard for everything we have in life. Nothing has been handed to us. We keep our weight down and our blood work stable with a ton of hard work on a daily basis. We don't give up. Sometimes we complain but we pull ourselves up and get back to doing what we know is necessary to stay on the path we have laid before us. It never once occurred to either one of us that we were morally superior or fundamentally better than anyone else. But when someone says they can't do that, we definitely say, "sure you can." Maybe we should change our attitude. The next time someone says they can't lose weight, we will say, "You're right. Your situation is an anomaly. You are never going to be able to overcome this obstacle before you. Your situation is hopeless and there are simply no answers for your problems. But, hey! Keep your chin up."
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This is grammatically incorrect because I've added a punctuation mark to a fragment. I'm not perfect so I mustn't be a true Dis member.
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:17 PM   #272
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I lurk more than I post, but I couldn't let this go by without saying something.

I just wanted to say thank you to the people who were open and honest about the amount of effort it takes to be fit and not overweight.

I used to weigh 70 pounds more than I do now. It has taken me about 4 years to lose the weight. I took a break to have a baby, but it has been a long, hard process. I started off obese and am now not overweight. I still would like to lose ten more pounds, but I have to cut back even more on what I eat in order to do it.

I had to change a lot of the things that I thought about myself. I had to start to like to eat less and I had to learn to love exercise. I also had to accept that I was making excuses and not working as hard at it as other people. The biggest thing that I have learned on my journey is that I will not lose weight without being hungry.

It helps to have a reminder that it is hard for everybody and maybe I just have to work a little harder to achieve my goal, but it is attainable.

As to the original subject of this thread, I think that we should ALL stop being so defensive about weighing more than we want to. I was only able to lose weight when I took all of the ego and emotion out of the equation. When I did that, it allowed me to see food as fuel and not use more of it than I needed. I still like to eat, I just have to eat a lot more slowly and focus on every bite or I will miss it.
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:55 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by badblackpug View Post
..

The whole "bullying" thing is ridiculous. The guy who wrote the email was a horse's butt, but he wasn't bullying her. The email was ridiculous and unnecessary, but it wasn't bullying. It really didn't deserve anything more than the 1 second it would've taken to delete it.

We are a society that is obsessed by appearance, and along with that comes the idea that someone's self worth is based on their appearance. To suggest that this woman was poor role model because she is obese is ridiculous. (after all, didn't we have a whole thread dedicated to Hilary Clinton's hairdo? She's an educated, accomplished woman, who is probably one of the most powerful women in that nation, but her hairdo was really important)
I cannot agree with you. We take the time to have anti-bullying campaigns in school because finally it has been recognized that bullying is a real problem. All you need to do is go to youtube ans search bullying and the clips that young people post that pop up are heartbreaking. The concept that it is okay to tell someone that you do not even know that their appearance is offensive is appalling to me. That the people who so this are adults is even more outrageous. I am shocked that we, as a society, think it is okay to tell a woman who is not a fried or a family member overweight to lose weight is beyond what is acceptable behavior.

It is this lack of boundaries that is frightening to me. Once our children see that adults have determined that there is one or two or three segments of our society that it is acceptable to point out "flaws" to, they will continue this practice. It is okay, Mom and Dad do it,

You know, one email does may not be "bullying" but as we have seen here on the DIS, it is sometimes easy to say hateful things to people we don't see. Kids should be taught that it is not "nice" to say mean things to others simply because you are not looking at them. Would you say it to someone if you were looking at that person? Kids pile on and we all have read the consequences of that kind of attack. What I think the anchorwoman was trying to say, and what I truly believe is that once you make a person invisible it is one step closer to dehumanizing that person. It happens every day and it is not okay.
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:09 AM   #274
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Who, exactly, said that they are wonderful and fit on this thread? I read that people, like myself, have to work very hard to maintain their weight by diet and exercise. Also, where is the criticism?
Ummm... the whole thread is about a man who wrote an e-mail criticizing a woman he doesn't even know.

Am I the only one that notices that the folks that regularly jump in on threads discussing weight and nutrition, and always talking about their healthy lifestyles and eating habits discuss only their appearance? We never hear "my cholesterol is X, my BP is Y, my blood sugar is. Z" We hear all about pants size and weight and abs. Obesity should be a concern about health not about appearance. Many people try to say they are concerned about health, but mostly they are concerned about appearance.

It is more acceptable to comment on someone being thin than it is someone being fat because it is socially acceptable to be thin. Actually, it is desirable. "Thin" is never seen as an insult.

We can discuss the interesting dichotomy that while the "ideal" woman has become thinner, and thinner, the average woman had become larger.

Interesting perspective, and admittedly way off the spectrum of what were are discussing here, but I just finished reading a book called "The Five Chimneys." It's about a woman's experience in Birkenau. She comments in the book about how the women who have any meat left on their bones are the coveted ones. She talks about how a year ago these are the women that would have been embarrassed about their appearance and dieting. Now it is the thin ones who are embarrassed.

I try to teach my girls to be strong, smart, and kind. I try to teach them that who they are is much more important that what they look like. There are always going to be people who don't like the way they look, and there are going to be people who will feel the need to comment on this. Everywhere you go there are people who are going to think you are too ugly, or too fat, or too thin, or too tall, or too light. The best thing you can do is ignore these people and be confident in who you are.

People who put people down do it because it makes them feel better about themselves. Feeding into that behavior only gives them what they want. It's best just to move on and leave them with their own unhappiness. This, by the way, it's the same thing I would have told this newscaster. I would have told her to hit the "delete" button and move on. This man's opinion has absolutely no bearing in her life.

My whole point here is that someone's appearance, be it fat or thin, tall or short, dark or light, has no bearing on their worthiness as a person. So what this woman is fat? She is a news reporter, presumably she is good at what she does. What earthy difference does it make that she is fat? Being fat doesn't make her a poor role model. Being fat makes her, well....fat.
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:30 AM   #275
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http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/...alled-fat.html

While Jennifer Livingston aired the initial email, apparently there were several emails exchanged. I know people are saying one email doesn't constitute bullying, but it's interesting to know there were several emails.

People have made very good points - I'll just say I feel very sorry for his wife, especially if she would ever gain any weight. I would think there would be this unacknowledged pressure to be a certain size, or face condemnation and disappointment masked by "concern and helpfulness" . Not what I would want in a relationship.
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:45 AM   #276
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None of us here know what lifestyles the rest of us live, how thin or overweight anyone is and what they do to be that way.

But the fact of the matter is, I can bet you that every one of us know someone that is thin and fit and does very little to stay that way. And we all know someone who is overweight and although they try very hard to lose the weight, are hit with obstacles (such a health issues) that keep the weight on.

I have two sons. One is thin and always has been. He can eat anything under the sun and as much as he wants and he doesn't gain an ounce. He works out because he is a wrestler and he wants to bulk up a little. (he will NEVER be a John Cena, but he does bulk up a little). He is the "thin person" that most people think of when they say "thin people can eat anything".

The other son, who has been an athlete all his life is a little different. He is careful of the kinds of food. Lots of fish and chicken and veggies. He works out every day to keep the extra weight off. And he is bigger than his brother but its mostly muscle.

I am overweight and right now, honestly, I am not doing a lot about it. But I do know the struggle it can be.

DD can gain a little, get frustrated putting her jeans on and in a week take it back off--she just changes a little of what she eats, like not so many french fries. Not nearly the hard time I have losing weight. She is a lot like her father's family and my sil is the same way.

I have a friend that is obese. She is also diabetic. She tries to lose weight, but she has other health problems, those things mess with her diabetes and she has to change the way she eats again, and there again, she doesn't lose weight. She just had both knees replaced, and has a hard time with exercise. Are these excuses? No. I see the struggle she goes through every day trying to keep all of this in check. Would losing weight help some of the problems? Probably. But its a hard circle for her and losing weight is hard. Someone suggested she work with a trainer and a nutrionist to help her keep all of it in check but that takes money that she doesn't have.


Every "thin person" doesn't struggle and work to stay that way and every "fat person" isn't just wallowing in self pity and using excuses. How about we just accept that everyone is different and everyone's body is different? If someone is happy and overweight, let them be. If someone wants to make a change, they will try, but we have to accept the fact that sometimes that try is a whole lot harder than it would be for us.

Fresh fruits and veggies are expensive. Healthy, lean protein can be expensive. It just is. And yes, some folks grow a garden. Not everyone can. Not everyone has the space, not everyone has the time. We all lead very different lives.
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:41 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by jujube View Post
In the end, those of us with children, spouses, partners, and parents who rely us need to try our best to get and stay healthy. It's taking care of ourselves which unfortunately with all of the stressors in life maybe some feel they don't deserve. As I posted earlier, there's a fitness program that only takes 15 minutes a day. Who of us doesn't have 15 minutes? If you work in a high rise building, start taking stairs, even if it's just one floor's worth at first. If you work in a building that's only one level, park as far as away as you can and walk. For those who like to snack, keep celery, carrot sticks, and boiled eggs in the fridge and grab one of those for a snack instead of less healthy choices. Have a hamburger patty, chicken breast, or some other protein because proteins really satisfy hunger pangs whereas carbs make you crave more carbs and you dont feel satisfied.
Some have said they exercise like crazy, watch their diets, and still can't lose weight. For those people, I encourage you to see a doctor because if you're burning more calories than you're taking in and you're not losing weight, seems like there's a problem.
Do you realize how condescending this sounds? It really is the old assumption that all heavy people sit on their butts all day eating Doritos and either have no idea what to do better or have some underlying emotional issue. I've yet to meet that person in real life. Most of the overweight people I know are like me - try to fit in exercise when they can but have kids and/or jobs and/or other caretaking responsibilities that consume most of their time and energy. They try to eat healthy, but have those nights where there's a half-hour between work and kids' activities to grab dinner which means fast food or something out of the freezer. And the 5lbs here, 10lbs there, never quite lost all the baby weight adds up over time.

I know I am probably one who should see a doctor to figure out if there are medical options that would help me lose. I'm sure I'm not burning more calories than I take in - if I was I be losing, right? - but I'm also pretty sure I should be. By all the standard metabolism/calorie needs calculators someone my size should be losing at my caloric intake and activity level. But I'm almost phobic about doctors so that's a very last resort in my mind, and right now I'm just trying a few years of healthy eating, eliminating or severely reducing the "science experiment" foods and additives, exercising regularly, and not taking any daily meds to see if I can't "reset" my metabolism on my own now that the days of birth control and major hormonal disruptions like pregnancy/birth/nursing are behind me.
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:44 AM   #278
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I cannot agree with you. We take the time to have anti-bullying campaigns in school because finally it has been recognized that bullying is a real problem. All you need to do is go to youtube ans search bullying and the clips that young people post that pop up are heartbreaking. The concept that it is okay to tell someone that you do not even know that their appearance is offensive is appalling to me. That the people who so this are adults is even more outrageous. I am shocked that we, as a society, think it is okay to tell a woman who is not a fried or a family member overweight to lose weight is beyond what is acceptable behavior.

It is this lack of boundaries that is frightening to me. Once our children see that adults have determined that there is one or two or three segments of our society that it is acceptable to point out "flaws" to, they will continue this practice. It is okay, Mom and Dad do it,

You know, one email does may not be "bullying" but as we have seen here on the DIS, it is sometimes easy to say hateful things to people we don't see. Kids should be taught that it is not "nice" to say mean things to others simply because you are not looking at them. Would you say it to someone if you were looking at that person? Kids pile on and we all have read the consequences of that kind of attack. What I think the anchorwoman was trying to say, and what I truly believe is that once you make a person invisible it is one step closer to dehumanizing that person. It happens every day and it is not okay.
I'm not saying that bullying, in a general sense, is ridiculous, I am saying it is ridiculous in this instance.

I absolutely agree that there is bullying, and I absolutely agree that it should be dealt with aggressively. I just don't agree that this situation is bullying. I think that the man that wrote that email is a jerk (I actually think that he is a stronger word than "jerk" but I can't adequately describe him on the DIS) but I don't think he was attempting to bully the reporter.
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:10 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by badblackpug View Post
I'm not saying that bullying, in a general sense, is ridiculous, I am saying it is ridiculous in this instance.

I absolutely agree that there is bullying, and I absolutely agree that it should be dealt with aggressively. I just don't agree that this situation is bullying. I think that the man that wrote that email is a jerk (I actually think that he is a stronger word than "jerk" but I can't adequately describe him on the DIS) but I don't think he was attempting to bully the reporter.
I agree with you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancyg56 View Post
The concept that it is okay to tell someone that you do not even know that their appearance is offensive is appalling to me. That the people who so this are adults is even more outrageous. I am shocked that we, as a society, think it is okay to tell a woman who is not a fried or a family member overweight to lose weight is beyond what is acceptable behavior.
I get the impression that you think those of us who disagree that this was bullying think what the guy did was ok. I haven't seen a single person on this thread who thought that what he did was acceptable. It was not, and I think everyone on here has been very clear about that.
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:10 AM   #280
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Do you realize how condescending this sounds? It really is the old assumption that all heavy people sit on their butts all day eating Doritos and either have no idea what to do better or have some underlying emotional issue. I've yet to meet that person in real life. Most of the overweight people I know are like me - try to fit in exercise when they can but have kids and/or jobs and/or other caretaking responsibilities that consume most of their time and energy. They try to eat healthy, but have those nights where there's a half-hour between work and kids' activities to grab dinner which means fast food or something out of the freezer. And the 5lbs here, 10lbs there, never quite lost all the baby weight adds up over time.

I know I am probably one who should see a doctor to figure out if there are medical options that would help me lose. I'm sure I'm not burning more calories than I take in - if I was I be losing, right? - but I'm also pretty sure I should be. By all the standard metabolism/calorie needs calculators someone my size should be losing at my caloric intake and activity level. But I'm almost phobic about doctors so that's a very last resort in my mind, and right now I'm just trying a few years of healthy eating, eliminating or severely reducing the "science experiment" foods and additives, exercising regularly, and not taking any daily meds to see if I can't "reset" my metabolism on my own now that the days of birth control and major hormonal disruptions like pregnancy/birth/nursing are behind me.
I don't see a single condescending word or feel a condescending tone in what was said whatsoever. It's good advice for anyone, large, small or right in between.
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:24 AM   #281
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Am I the only one that notices that the folks that regularly jump in on threads discussing weight and nutrition, and always talking about their healthy lifestyles and eating habits discuss only their appearance? We never hear "my cholesterol is X, my BP is Y, my blood sugar is. Z" We hear all about pants size and weight and abs. Obesity should be a concern about health not about appearance. Many people try to say they are concerned about health, but mostly they are concerned about appearance.
That isn't true though. On this thread diabetes was brought up and I talk all the time, including on this thread, about lifestyle created diseases. I talk about our over-reliance on drugs to fix things like blood pressure and cholesterol that many people could fix by being more healthy. Those things aren't about appearance, they are about health. I also talk about wanting to be healthy when I am in my 50's and 60's and how the decisions I make in my 20's and 30's will effect those as will everyone's. That is about healthy no appearance. I still want to be running into my 80's like some people I know and know of and still don't want to pop a handful of medication just to survive the day. I care very much about my health and not just my appearance though I do think that appearance is important. I also agree that it isn't everything.

I can't speak for anyone else but I do see others talk about the non-visual aspects of health quite often in regards to weight.
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:46 AM   #282
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Am I the only one that notices that the folks that regularly jump in on threads discussing weight and nutrition, and always talking about their healthy lifestyles and eating habits discuss only their appearance? We never hear "my cholesterol is X, my BP is Y, my blood sugar is. Z"
Really?? Because here is my quote from the page before:

Quote:
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We keep our weight down and our blood work stable with a ton of hard work on a daily basis.
I try to make it a point to say that this is about our blood levels. Maybe you are only reading into it what you want and have missed those comments? For my DH and I, if we carry around 20 - 30 extra pounds, our cholesterol triglycerides, and blood sugar shoot up. The only way we can keep those numbers low is by keeping the weight off.

I have also admitted regularly that thin does not equal healthy. I have said that for years now. However, I will never say that someone who is overweight is healthy. I don't care if their blood work is perfect at the moment. The heart muscle is working harder if it has that excess weight to deal with.

My mom is the perfect example of that. Her weight has caused severe arthritis leaving her bed ridden for days at a time. Being bed ridden has caused other problems like circulation issues. It is a catch-22.

My dad had multiple heart attacks and surgery but was never on a blood pressure pill a day in his life. So while your numbers are very important, they certainly don't tell the whole picture.

If you are overweight, statistically you are at risk for far more medical problems. That is just a simple fact. It is like the thread on smoking where someone says something about their relative that smoked for their entire life and never got cancer. Of course there are statistical anomalies out there but can anyone honestly deny that smoking is bad for your health and will *likely* lead to medical problems? I have never met a single smoker that doesn't believe that. As a matter of fact, I have never met a single smoker that encourages smoking. Instead, most have always told my kids, "Whatever you do, don't smoke." But overweight people don't take that same stance. They say their blood work is fine and they are healthier than some skinny people. They talk about how people shouldn't be judged by what is on the outside (which I wholeheartedly agree with) but I rarely hear them say, "Don't do what I did. Exercise and eat right from the beginning." Nope, instead many (not all) are allowing their own children to follow along in their footsteps by eating McD's, Lunchables, and a long line of junk food. My daughter has two teen friends that are already on blood pressure pills and one also takes some kind of heart pill. Both have obese parents. Those same people would be appalled if a parent allowed their 6 year old to smoke. But weight and smoking are viewed much differently.

Last edited by LisaR; 10-05-2012 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:06 AM   #283
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I don't see a single condescending word or feel a condescending tone in what was said whatsoever. It's good advice for anyone, large, small or right in between.
I think she means because the pp makes it sound like people don't already know those things. Most people that are overweight know what they need to eat and what they need to do, its just not always as simple as knowing it though.
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:22 AM   #284
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Wow, does he really think she CHOSE to be obese?
Ignorant...
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:26 AM   #285
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I think she means because the pp makes it sound like people don't already know those things. Most people that are overweight know what they need to eat and what they need to do, its just not always as simple as knowing it though.
I don't think that is always the case though. There are a lot of very incorrect assumptions about what is and isn't healthy out there. I know I've seen people who think eating fried chicken is good for you because it is chicken, people who put tons of ranch dressing on a salad and think it is healthy because it is a salad. You see people talk about how they only drink diet pop but the chemicals in that pop are just as bad for you as the chemicals in normal pop even without the calories. You see people look at a package of food that says "lower in fat" and grab it as a healthy alternative without really looking at the ingredients or what they are actually eating. Lower than what? What else is in it? Is it lower in fat but higher in sugar? Even many healthy people completely overestimate what is a single portion of most foods. What is viewed as a single portion is often as high as 4 portions. A standard sized bowl of breakfast cereal is about 4 servings of cereal and 2 of milk. That fact would probably surprise a majority of the country regardless of their weight.

There is also a tendency, even among people who do pay attention, of underestimate the calories they consume and over estimate the calories they burn. For example, going on a 30 minute walk every day will burn under 100 calories for many people. Doing any exercise day after day will lose effectiveness because our bodies strive for efficiency. I would wager most people who don't read a lot about fitness don't know this and many other aspects of it.

People are right when they say losing 100 pounds is hard. It is and I don't think anyone would say otherwise. That is looking at the problem from the wrong perspective though in my opinion. It is much easier, and I think everyone would agree, to stay a healthy weight if you are always a healthy weight or if you start to concentrate on it when you only have 10 pounds to lose as opposed to 100. That is why I think childhood obesity is such a huge issue. It isn't just about the health of the kid but about that kid's life down the road.

An obese kid will often become an obese teen who in turn will often become an obese adult. By that time they have decades of bad habits and huge life adjustments to make. By contrast I grew up in a house where we were taught about food and cooking and our parents taught us about exercise. We grew up with good habits that we don't have to try and learn as adults when it is harder. We didn't start our lives at a disadvantage because we were over weight kids or teens. We never had to worry about losing 100 pounds because we never let it get that far.

There is this misconception that I talk about this stuff to brag or to come across as superior. That is just not the case. I don't think I'm better than anyone. I think just the opposite and there is nothing I have done or will do in life that the vast majority of other people could do just as well if they put the same amount of effort in it as me. This goes towards this topic but also putting yourself through school, advancing in their careers, and every other goal I've ever set and reached. People make some wild accusations and assumptions about me when I talk about health. It is my biggest hobby (and yes, health not just appearance) and the thing I care most about as far as topics to discuss go so when they come up I will discuss them. I don't see why that is viewed as strange. Everyone has their own topic they care most about.

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