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Old 09-27-2012, 01:01 AM   #91
EPCOTatNight
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Originally Posted by EMom View Post
The man was schizophrenic, known to be violent and from what the men who lived with him said, incredibly agile and swift in his wheelchair. He could make it go fast, spin quickly, etc. I don't blame the officer for shooting. Not all mentally ill people are created equal, and some are very dangerous, one armed/one legged or not. Given the surroundings that night, and the nature of the person they were dealing with, yes....he could have easily been armed and used the weapon on the police. This "poor, mentally ill man" has been described as dangerous even by his housemates. What makes people think he was harmless? His housemates called the police after all.

Police put their lives on the line daily. It's easy for us to sit back and judge, but we're not the ones with targets on us constantly.
He was NOT known to be violent.
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:34 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by EPCOTatNight View Post
So why was this man shot in the head and not the torso?
Well in this case probably because he was in a wheel chair. If the partner shot and the person had the other cop in a corner I'm guessing the partner was shooting at him from behind, thus the back of the wheelchair would have been blocking his torso and making his head the clear shot that he could take without fear of missing.
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:23 AM   #93
Hannathy
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Originally Posted by EPCOTatNight View Post
He was NOT known to be violent.
Oh I would say if his room mates had to call the police he was known to be violent. If it was so easy to control him because he was in a wheelchair as you seem to keep saying why didn't the other able body souls living there control him if he was so docile?

Where did you read that he wasn't violent? I haven't seen anything that would point to that.
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:48 AM   #94
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I have discussed this before with arm chair critics of the police.

First of all many police officers do not carry tasers or pepper spray. Fact, and in this case, you do not fight a person that you think has a knife with a taser or pepper spray. Not a fair fight.

Secondly, even if the police officer is armed with both, if they feel that they are threatened with a knife, this is a DEADLY weapon. Akin to a gun. Same damage. Many, many officers have been killed with one puncture wound to a main artery with a knife. A knife is just as deadly a weapon as a gun.

In a split second decision it is easy for the lay person to say, taser them, baton them, shoot them in the arm, or even more ridiculously, figure out if they are mentally or physically disabled. A police officer when theatened is trained, rightly fully so, so shoot for the torso of the body. Never, ever, is a police officer trained to shoot for any other part of the body. Shoot to kill, not to maim. If you shoot for the arm, you very well might miss, therefore risk being the victim and ending up dead.

Also, my husband, as is the rest of his officers on the Toronto Police Services go through a huge amount of training every single year. If you can't shoot almost perfectly, you don't get your gun.

My husband has been a police officer for nearly 30 years. He has never fired his weapon anywhere but the shooting range. He has always worked in the worst sections of Toronto including the Guns and Gangs, Drug Squad, etc. That said, he would not hesitate, if he thought he was threatened to fire his gun at anyone, including a handicapped person, if the situation warranted it and he thought his life or another was at stake. Hindsight is 20/20 but does not work in the heat of the moment.

A person wielding a pen could very well be mistaken for someone wielding a knife. An officer has a split second to make a decision that could affect whether or not he goes home to his family that night or is killed.
Please believe me when I say I am NOT normally a critic of police and I am just trying to understand.

Why would pepper spray or a taser not be the thing to fight someone with a knife? I could see maybe not using a taser for someone that has a gun but why not with a knife?

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Originally Posted by EPCOTatNight View Post
So why was this man shot in the head and not the torso?
Good question!

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Originally Posted by Hannathy View Post
Oh I would say if his room mates had to call the police he was known to be violent. If it was so easy to control him because he was in a wheelchair as you seem to keep saying why didn't the other able body souls living there control him if he was so docile?

Where did you read that he wasn't violent? I haven't seen anything that would point to that.
She didn't say he was docile. She said he was not known to be violent. (why does everything around here have to be one extreme or the other) This one incident does not mean he was known to be violent. Maybe it was the first time.

I would hardly think that his roommates in a hospital felt they were capable of handling the situation. Besides people call the cops all the time to handle situations when someone gets angry, doesn't have anything to do with their past actions.
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:02 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by luvsJack View Post
I would hardly think that his roommates in a hospital felt they were capable of handling the situation. Besides people call the cops all the time to handle situations when someone gets angry, doesn't have anything to do with their past actions.

He wasn't in a hospital! he was in a house, and had a landlord who wasn't a "patient" altho either were the other tenants. -going on the article cited.



and if someone is so angry and acting out that neighbors, room mates feel they need to call the police then I would say the person was violent or why would they need to call for help?

As far as pepper spray, pepper spray does not always stop people if they are "crazy" or high on drugs and Pepper spray never stops a bullet! so it would not protect the policeman, if it had been a gun.
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:17 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Hannathy View Post
He wasn't in a hospital! he was in a house, and had a landlord who wasn't a "patient" altho either were the other tenants. -going on the article cited.



and if someone is so angry and acting out that neighbors, room mates feel they need to call the police then I would say the person was violent or why would they need to call for help?

As far as pepper spray, pepper spray does not always stop people if they are "crazy" or high on drugs and Pepper spray never stops a bullet! so it would not protect the policeman, if it had been a gun.
That still doesn't make the person "known to be violent". Was he acting violently in THIS situation, yes. That doesn't mean he had before.

I never said pepper spray would stop a bullet nor did I ask that question.
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:05 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by LSmith View Post
I have discussed this before with arm chair critics of the police.

First of all many police officers do not carry tasers or pepper spray. Fact, and in this case, you do not fight a person that you think has a knife with a taser or pepper spray. Not a fair fight.

Secondly, even if the police officer is armed with both, if they feel that they are threatened with a knife, this is a DEADLY weapon. Akin to a gun. Same damage. Many, many officers have been killed with one puncture wound to a main artery with a knife. A knife is just as deadly a weapon as a gun.

In a split second decision it is easy for the lay person to say, taser them, baton them, shoot them in the arm, or even more ridiculously, figure out if they are mentally or physically disabled. A police officer when theatened is trained, rightly fully so, so shoot for the torso of the body. Never, ever, is a police officer trained to shoot for any other part of the body. Shoot to kill, not to maim. If you shoot for the arm, you very well might miss, therefore risk being the victim and ending up dead.

Also, my husband, as is the rest of his officers on the Toronto Police Services go through a huge amount of training every single year. If you can't shoot almost perfectly, you don't get your gun.

My husband has been a police officer for nearly 30 years. He has never fired his weapon anywhere but the shooting range. He has always worked in the worst sections of Toronto including the Guns and Gangs, Drug Squad, etc. That said, he would not hesitate, if he thought he was threatened to fire his gun at anyone, including a handicapped person, if the situation warranted it and he thought his life or another was at stake. Hindsight is 20/20 but does not work in the heat of the moment.

A person wielding a pen could very well be mistaken for someone wielding a knife. An officer has a split second to make a decision that could affect whether or not he goes home to his family that night or is killed.
Put very well, thank you.

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That is correct. Absolutely, without a doubt.

It seems as though you would prefer that they "talk" about it.

Please.
No, too impersonal. I think they should just hug it out.

I will have to ask my family members what the exact wording is for shooting your gun. I know that in the departments my family works in, they have to record every time they even pull their gun out of their holster nevermind firing it.
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:48 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Hannathy View Post
Oh I would say if his room mates had to call the police he was known to be violent. If it was so easy to control him because he was in a wheelchair as you seem to keep saying why didn't the other able body souls living there control him if he was so docile?

Where did you read that he wasn't violent? I haven't seen anything that would point to that.
I'm so glad you asked.
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Despite his history of harming himself, Claunch's criminal and mental health backgrounds don't indicate he was violent toward others. John Garcia, owner of the Healing Hands Assisted Home Care facility where Claunch was living and where the confrontation with police happened, recalled a loving but also at times quarrelsome man.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1918661.html
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:45 AM   #99
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He was attacking a police officer. He had said police officer cornered. If it wasn't such a big deal and the man was not being violent, why did the manager of the group home even call police. I would think he would be trained how to deal with disturbed individuals more than a police officer was.
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:09 PM   #100
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He was attacking a police officer. He had said police officer cornered. If it wasn't such a big deal and the man was not being violent, why did the manager of the group home even call police. I would think he would be trained how to deal with disturbed individuals more than a police officer was.
exactly you don't call the police for a "quarrelsome" man and he is the one who called police as far as I know! So the man was far past quarrelsome, and hurting yourself is violence. And he had a criminal background. It I'm a PO I'm not trusting him on iota. No way.

And what you quoted this time wasn't in the original article which is what I based my statement on. Funny how they always say new things AFTER it happens.
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:42 PM   #101
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He was attacking a police officer. He had said police officer cornered. If it wasn't such a big deal and the man was not being violent, why did the manager of the group home even call police. I would think he would be trained how to deal with disturbed individuals more than a police officer was.
No one ever said the man wasn't being violent. The pp said he wasn't KNOWN TO BE VIOLENT--as in he had no history of being violent.
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:44 PM   #102
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To me it doesn't matter if he was violent once or everyday. He got violent one to many times
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:55 PM   #103
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No one ever said the man wasn't being violent. The pp said he wasn't KNOWN TO BE VIOLENT--as in he had no history of being violent.
Correct, but the police officer does not have time to see if the man has a violent history in this case. They had to make a split second decision. They can't say, okay everyone freeze until I run you through the computer. Not saying you think they should do this. Just trying to add more food for thought.
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