DVC RESALES
DVC RESALES

Go Back   The DIS Discussion Forums - DISboards.com > Disney Vacation Club > Purchasing DVC
facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS UpdatesDIS email updates
Register Chat FAQ Tickers Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read





Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-25-2012, 06:58 PM   #31
BestDadEver
New DVC Member
 
BestDadEver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Long Island
Posts: 672

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsTessP View Post
The other factor not considered is the increase of the rate which Disney will charge per night (whether rack or even discount) over the next 20-30 years. I imagine that if we were to research and come up with those rate of 20-30 years ago, then we would see a substantial increase compared to today's rates.
This is what I was going to say . The room prices are only going to go up in the future .

Also when you pay cash you are going to get hit with currently , a 12.9% tax on top of the rack rate. I consider the tax , the equal to the dues .
__________________
Member since 2012


BestDadEver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 07:29 PM   #32
Dean
DIS Veteran
 
Dean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 31,864

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougEMG View Post
Interesting. Why would they do this, what do they gain from this?

Given the ability to link reservations anyway, this is just going to cause more work for member services as owners call up to link their reservations. If they stop linking and make you move then house keeping costs are going to go up as rooms will need to be cleaned more if you have to move more.
I think you're making too many assumptions that the way things are now are the way they will remain. Just removing the ability to combine accounts will push some to retail. Removing the ability to link reservations will push even more that direction. There are other issues that COULD change. There is no guarantee that the current fee structure will remain. Most points systems charge a club fee separate from the maint fees and at least one charges a base fee then a per point amount above that. That could be one per account. The possibilities are endless as it relates to the changes that could happen. Whether they will or are likely to is up for debate.
__________________
Dean
Dean is offline   Reply With Quote
|
The DIS
Register to remove

Join Date: 1997
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,000,000
Old 09-25-2012, 07:37 PM   #33
Dean
DIS Veteran
 
Dean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 31,864

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow624 View Post
Struggling to find the mathamatical benefit here of joining DVC? Don't get me wrong, I want to, but it just doesn't seem to make sense financially, at least not for the Wilderness lodge. Is something wrong with my math here?

DVC: Wilderness Lodge (Expires January 31, 2042):

Re-Sale Cost: 150 Points for roughly $9,500.00

About $1050 per year in maintenance fees (rounding and adding up just a bit to encorporate for assumed raises and inflation) ($88 per month)

$9,500 initial buy in
About $32,000 in total maintenance over 30 years

Total: $41,500 not including food or tickets.

*This would get me about 8 nights in a one bedroom studio every 2 years during the summer (that is when we can travel)

Booking a Deluxe, Courtyard view Room at Rack Rate straight through Disney

$2,900.00 for 7 nights every other summer.

Total for 15 trips (every other summer for 30 years): $43,500.00



So, I would only save $2,000 total by choosing to join DVC?

And that is at rack rate...so, conceivably, I could/would save money booking Disney hotels at whatever promotion they have going on instead of DVC?
I'm a little confused with your wording but 150 points will get you a studio very year for a week or just over and a 1 BR a little more than EOY, maybe an extra year 3-4 times or so times during the remaining RTU. However, a 1 BR is the most difficult option to show a savings by buying in financially speaking. Still, at break even, I'd far rather have the 1 BR than a deluxe hotel room. Remember you can still enjoy much of the savings and benefits by renting as well.
__________________
Dean
Dean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 07:41 PM   #34
k3chantal
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: California
Posts: 1,100

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwvBound View Post
There is a certain je ne sais quoi, intangible, difficult to define, element to 'owning DVC' (which could also be applied to many other timeshare systems). It is the element that makes you dream of future vacations just because you own the points. It is the element that has toying with locations "just because you can." For some, it manifests itself in a need try all the DVC locations: WDW, Vero Beach, Hilton Head, California and Oahu. It keeps a small flicker of that Disney vacation magic glowing in your eyes for years to come. It can't be easily quantified ... but it is there, all the same, for most owners.

It is renewed by small touches:
  • A "zero due" bill at checkout.
  • A "Welcome Home!" on arrival.
  • Unpacking your Owner's Locker and rediscovering familiar personal items.
  • Knowing exactly which button to press on the microwave for the nightlight w/out having to look.
  • Closing the door between parents and children for some alone time ... even if that is only the door between the King Bed in the Master and the Pull-Out Soft bed in the Living Room.
  • Sharing a full-size pot of coffee using real mugs on your patio or balcony.
  • Having a place to stash that restaurant doggie bag ... and then retrieving it for a mid-night snack. (Or perhaps cold pizza for breakfast?)
  • Borrowing DVDs from the Resort Community Center all throughout your stay.
  • Participating in activities at the Community Center. Perhaps in lieu of a park day?
  • Increasing the number of non-park days on any given trip. Trying something new in the area ... or simply time relaxing.
Very well said!
k3chantal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 01:09 AM   #35
ELMC
DIS Veteran
 
ELMC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,981

Quote:
Originally Posted by BestDadEver View Post
This is what I was going to say . The room prices are only going to go up in the future .

Also when you pay cash you are going to get hit with currently , a 12.9% tax on top of the rack rate. I consider the tax , the equal to the dues .
Can you please explain your thinking here? I'm not seeing a way in which the tax for a stay is the same amount as the maintenance fees.
__________________
ELMC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 06:41 AM   #36
joelp
DIS Veteran
 
joelp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NJ (Physically ...) Mentally?
Posts: 1,120

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow624 View Post
Struggling to find the mathamatical benefit here of joining DVC? Don't get me wrong, I want to, but it just doesn't seem to make sense financially, at least not for the Wilderness lodge. Is something wrong with my math here?

DVC: Wilderness Lodge (Expires January 31, 2042):

Re-Sale Cost: 150 Points for roughly $9,500.00

About $1050 per year in maintenance fees (rounding and adding up just a bit to encorporate for assumed raises and inflation) ($88 per month)

$9,500 initial buy in
About $32,000 in total maintenance over 30 years

Total: $41,500 not including food or tickets.

*This would get me about 8 nights in a one bedroom studio every 2 years during the summer (that is when we can travel)

Booking a Deluxe, Courtyard view Room at Rack Rate straight through Disney

$2,900.00 for 7 nights every other summer.

Total for 15 trips (every other summer for 30 years): $43,500.00



So, I would only save $2,000 total by choosing to join DVC?

And that is at rack rate...so, conceivably, I could/would save money booking Disney hotels at whatever promotion they have going on instead of DVC?
Looking at it financially, you also need to consider inflation over 30 years (or the entire life of the contract) ...

It's easy to do if you know how to use Excel (and somewhere along the line, a rate of increase of about 3.4% years was mentioned for the maintenance fees). So over 30 years, the MF will cost more than you have estimated ...

BUT - the rack rate for a hotel toom will cost a lot more (3.4% increases on ~$5 per point for the MF changes a lot less in dollar-terms then on $300+ per night for a hotel room ...)

For example, when I did my calculations, a Savannah View Room at the AKL may cost about $1700 a night 45 years from now (when my daughter will want to go - if I can go to WDW when I'm 98 I'll be dancing down Main Street!!), with MFs running abut $23 per point. And from personal experience booking rooms at the Animal Kingdom Lodge, hotels rate over the 5 years have increased a lot more than 3.4% per year ...

So another way to look at buying into DVC is as a hedge against inflation in room prices ...


And as others have noted, you need to compare apples to apples ...
__________________
Me DW-Vicki DD-Danielle and DP Ranger and our new DP Sunshine

Off site - 8/76, 10/90, 10/94; POFQ - 5/07; AKL - 12/08; AKL - 9/09; Off site - 6/10; AS Movies - 3/11;
AKV-Kidani - 11/12; AKV-Jambo - 11/13 ; AKV-Jambo - 12/14


Dec 2008 Trip report at http://www.disboards.com/showthread....9#post29702539
Sep 2009 Trip Report at http://www.disboards.com/showthread....9#post34156519
Sep 2009 TR continued (but never finished) at http://www.disboards.com/showthread....7#post36403597
March 2011 PTR at http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2643038
joelp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 07:40 AM   #37
Dean
DIS Veteran
 
Dean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 31,864

Quote:
Originally Posted by joelp View Post
So another way to look at buying into DVC is as a hedge against inflation in room prices ...
or a risk tied to it. If you don't own and prices go up too much, you can chose other options. If you own and prices go up a lot you're locked in and if that happens, there would be little or no chance of selling out. I also think it's unreasonable to assume a different rate of inflation for maint fees and room costs, if anything, I would expect the % of increase net of discounts to be less for rooms than dues but assuming the same increase is reasonable. There are a lot of variables and risks that can't be truly accounted for. It's simply a gamble that includes variables such as one's finances, the price of rooms, dues, health issues and changes in personal situations and preferences. I think the risk is still reasonable for many but I see some buying in where it's not reasonable. It's like those buying the DDP saying they don't care how much it costs, they just like the convenience.
__________________
Dean
Dean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 08:30 AM   #38
belias21
DIS Dad's Club Member #717
 
belias21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Port St Lucie, FL
Posts: 271

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwvBound View Post
There is a certain je ne sais quoi, intangible, difficult to define, element to 'owning DVC' (which could also be applied to many other timeshare systems). It is the element that makes you dream of future vacations just because you own the points. It is the element that has toying with locations "just because you can." For some, it manifests itself in a need try all the DVC locations: WDW, Vero Beach, Hilton Head, California and Oahu. It keeps a small flicker of that Disney vacation magic glowing in your eyes for years to come. It can't be easily quantified ... but it is there, all the same, for most owners.

It is renewed by small touches:
  • A "zero due" bill at checkout.
  • A "Welcome Home!" on arrival.
  • Unpacking your Owner's Locker and rediscovering familiar personal items.
  • Knowing exactly which button to press on the microwave for the nightlight w/out having to look.
  • Closing the door between parents and children for some alone time ... even if that is only the door between the King Bed in the Master and the Pull-Out Soft bed in the Living Room.
  • Sharing a full-size pot of coffee using real mugs on your patio or balcony.
  • Having a place to stash that restaurant doggie bag ... and then retrieving it for a mid-night snack. (Or perhaps cold pizza for breakfast?)
  • Borrowing DVDs from the Resort Community Center all throughout your stay.
  • Participating in activities at the Community Center. Perhaps in lieu of a park day?
  • Increasing the number of non-park days on any given trip. Trying something new in the area ... or simply time relaxing.
Wow! We could talk rack rate, taxes, inflation, and maintenance fees until we're blue in the face... THIS post (at least in my mind) sums it all up! I refer to it as owning a piece of the magic. If this is important to you (and it was for us), then you'll make the numbers work. I'm not advocating that one be careless or frivolous, but if you have the means and the desire to buy in, then do it.
__________________
Brian




..........
belias21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 09:32 AM   #39
bighoo93
Mouseketeer
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 367

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwvBound View Post
There is a certain je ne sais quoi, intangible, difficult to define, element to 'owning DVC' (which could also be applied to many other timeshare systems). It is the element that makes you dream of future vacations just because you own the points. It is the element that has toying with locations "just because you can." For some, it manifests itself in a need try all the DVC locations: WDW, Vero Beach, Hilton Head, California and Oahu. It keeps a small flicker of that Disney vacation magic glowing in your eyes for years to come. It can't be easily quantified ... but it is there, all the same, for most owners.

It is renewed by small touches:
  • A "zero due" bill at checkout.
  • A "Welcome Home!" on arrival.
  • Unpacking your Owner's Locker and rediscovering familiar personal items.
  • Knowing exactly which button to press on the microwave for the nightlight w/out having to look.
  • Closing the door between parents and children for some alone time ... even if that is only the door between the King Bed in the Master and the Pull-Out Soft bed in the Living Room.
  • Sharing a full-size pot of coffee using real mugs on your patio or balcony.
  • Having a place to stash that restaurant doggie bag ... and then retrieving it for a mid-night snack. (Or perhaps cold pizza for breakfast?)
  • Borrowing DVDs from the Resort Community Center all throughout your stay.
  • Participating in activities at the Community Center. Perhaps in lieu of a park day?
  • Increasing the number of non-park days on any given trip. Trying something new in the area ... or simply time relaxing.
I think these are really good points. Even though I only just finished my first stay at a DVC resort (OKW) and was only renting, I still enjoyed almost all of those things, and they are much of what prompted us to buy into DVC (via resale).
bighoo93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 09:46 AM   #40
bighoo93
Mouseketeer
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 367

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow624 View Post
Good points.

We still only get the one bed (and a pullout couch which are not exactly comfortable) with the studio. Though, we would get more nights every 2 years or every year, but that is more in ticket and food cost.

Hmmmm
I think you are doing a good job thinking this through. It is true that in order to be fair about the benefits of DVC, you have to do a true apples to apples comparison (i.e., what would it cost to get the same room and services without DVC). Comparing to renting DVC is the most obvious way, but you may have other alternatives. For example, we just returned from our OKW trip, and the 2 BR cost us ~$2800 for the week (we LOVED it). If my SSR resale gets past ROFR (please please please please please), the same room would cost ~$1000. The points cost ~ $11,000, so it is about 6 trips before we've hit the breakeven point (this is all math in my head, apologies if it is all wrong...).

But an apples to apples comparison isn't necessarily right for making your decision. My family of 6 needs the space of a 2 BR and the kitchen to save some money on meals. DVC villas are about our only option, so comparing owning and renting is simple. But for you, it is comparing your vacation alternatives and weighing the different benefits to each, of which cost is only one component. If your alternatives really are a Deluxe courtyard rack rate room vs. a 1 BR DVC villa, so be it. It doesn't matter that they are not the same type of room or amenities, it is what you consider your lodging alternatives to be. If you don't really need the kitchen, that is not much of a benefit. My wife declines daily housekeeping when we stay at hotels, so it is actually a benefit to us that they don't try to do that in the DVC villas. But for you that might be a negative.

I think your approach in weighing your true alternatives is the right one to take. But I think it threw people off when you did a direct price comparison, which implied that you were looking at the same rooms/amenities and only varying cost.
bighoo93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 09:51 AM   #41
disneynutz


Earning My Ears One At A Time
 
disneynutz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: North Texas
Posts: 18,620

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean View Post
or a risk tied to it. If you don't own and prices go up too much, you can chose other options. If you own and prices go up a lot you're locked in and if that happens, there would be little or no chance of selling out. I also think it's unreasonable to assume a different rate of inflation for maint fees and room costs, if anything, I would expect the % of increase net of discounts to be less for rooms than dues but assuming the same increase is reasonable. There are a lot of variables and risks that can't be truly accounted for. It's simply a gamble that includes variables such as one's finances, the price of rooms, dues, health issues and changes in personal situations and preferences. I think the risk is still reasonable for many but I see some buying in where it's not reasonable. It's like those buying the DDP saying they don't care how much it costs, they just like the convenience.
Our dues at BLT increased over 8% this year.

Bill
__________________

disneynutz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 01:34 PM   #42
Sparrow624
"I believe as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
 
Sparrow624's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Durham, North Carolina
Posts: 202

Quote:
Originally Posted by bighoo93 View Post
I think you are doing a good job thinking this through. It is true that in order to be fair about the benefits of DVC, you have to do a true apples to apples comparison (i.e., what would it cost to get the same room and services without DVC). Comparing to renting DVC is the most obvious way, but you may have other alternatives. For example, we just returned from our OKW trip, and the 2 BR cost us ~$2800 for the week (we LOVED it). If my SSR resale gets past ROFR (please please please please please), the same room would cost ~$1000. The points cost ~ $11,000, so it is about 6 trips before we've hit the breakeven point (this is all math in my head, apologies if it is all wrong...).

But an apples to apples comparison isn't necessarily right for making your decision. My family of 6 needs the space of a 2 BR and the kitchen to save some money on meals. DVC villas are about our only option, so comparing owning and renting is simple. But for you, it is comparing your vacation alternatives and weighing the different benefits to each, of which cost is only one component. If your alternatives really are a Deluxe courtyard rack rate room vs. a 1 BR DVC villa, so be it. It doesn't matter that they are not the same type of room or amenities, it is what you consider your lodging alternatives to be. If you don't really need the kitchen, that is not much of a benefit. My wife declines daily housekeeping when we stay at hotels, so it is actually a benefit to us that they don't try to do that in the DVC villas. But for you that might be a negative.

I think your approach in weighing your true alternatives is the right one to take. But I think it threw people off when you did a direct price comparison, which implied that you were looking at the same rooms/amenities and only varying cost.
This is EXACTLY what I am trying to do. I am sorry if my comparison was confusing. I am sorry if it offended or upset some, but I am honestly trying to work out if this is a beneficial decision for my family. I am trying to convince my wife that this is a sound financial decision (she does not agree) and I am having trouble doing so.

On vacations, we do not want to have to cook or clean. We do a lot of that already and watch my parents spend an entire week long vacation at the beach every year...about 30% of it cooking and cleaning...or getting others in the family to do it when they visit. Everyone hates that part, haha. So, we would be eating out anyways.

We are not dealing with a $1,000 week at the beach here though, an entirely different cost spending.

My reason for comparing to a 2BR/1BR is that we need 2 beds. A pull out couch may work for a while, but not sure if it would be a long term solution.

Basically, we will only do this if there is a significant savings differential with what "we" need over the course of 30 years.

Not so sure yet.
__________________


2003 - Off Site - 2 nights 3 days
2006 - Grand Floridian 8 nights 9 days (Honeymoon)
2009 - Boardwalk - 3 nights 4 days
2011 - Grand Floridian - 7 nights 8 days (5 year Anniversary)
Sparrow624 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 02:32 PM   #43
DougEMG
DIS Veteran
 
DougEMG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,754

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow624 View Post
My reason for comparing to a 2BR/1BR is that we need 2 beds. A pull out couch may work for a while, but not sure if it would be a long term solution.

Basically, we will only do this if there is a significant savings differential with what "we" need over the course of 30 years.

Not so sure yet.
1 bedrooms only have a king, a pull out couch and some have a sleeper chair, none have two real beds.

So if you need 2 beds, then your only have two options: an OKW studio which has 2 real beds or a 2 bedroom in any resort. Comparing the costs of these two options against a deluxe hotel room will give you the following results:

OKW studio will be cheaper than a deluxe hotel room. (Maybe not though if you get a good discount or free dining.)
While the deluxe hotel room will be cheaper than a 2 bedroom DVC room.

If it was me and I need the two beds and didn't want to spend the extra money to get a 2 bedroom I would not bother with DVC. Having an OKW studio as the only option doesn't seem worth the effort.
__________________
DougEMG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 02:43 PM   #44
bwvBound
DVC SSR & other timeshare
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,511

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougEMG View Post
If it was me and I need the two beds and didn't want to spend the extra money to get a 2 bedroom I would not bother with DVC. Having an OKW studio as the only option doesn't seem worth the effort.
Agreed! I wouldn't buy DVC if I were only planning to book Studio units.
bwvBound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 02:53 PM   #45
Sparrow624
"I believe as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
 
Sparrow624's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Durham, North Carolina
Posts: 202

Doug and BWVBound, thank you for the honest assessment. That is what it is looking like to me as well. We would need the 2 beds each trip and in order to get that, OKW or getting far more than 150 points appears to be the the only options to have an equal stay at a deluxe resort for at least 7 nights every other year.

I really like the idea of DVC, but as a few have honestly said, it looks like this may be a case of "DVC is not for everyone."


For a family of 3, wanting 2 beds, who like to eat out each night, it appears that based on room only costs (factoring out food/tickets) DVC still saves, but only a few thousand dollars over the long run.

Thanks everyone for the input.
__________________


2003 - Off Site - 2 nights 3 days
2006 - Grand Floridian 8 nights 9 days (Honeymoon)
2009 - Boardwalk - 3 nights 4 days
2011 - Grand Floridian - 7 nights 8 days (5 year Anniversary)
Sparrow624 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

DVC-Resales.com | 1-800-550-6493 (Contact The Timeshare Store) | DVC Resale Listings

facebooktwittergoogle plus youtube itunesDIS Updates
GET OUR DIS UPDATES DELIVERED BY EMAIL



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:22 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Copyright © 1997-2014, Werner Technologies, LLC. All Rights Reserved.