DVC Options--Resale vs Disney?

[Dean]

Originally Posted by mskayjay

Fair enough. You can't "hear" someone's inflection through this form of conversation. I do appreciate your expertise but that one part really sounds like you were indicating that Poly was the only Deluxe that would be available and that is what threw me off.

have a great day
K

The Poly is the only deluxe Disney hotel available, none of the Disney properties that have DVC options can be reserved as a hotel. That was the focus of the conversation at the time. That this was confusing for you suggested to me that you didn't know the system well enough to make a truly informed decision. Now hopefully you're a little closer to being able to make the best decision for you and your family.

Originally Posted by Phenomonom1

We didn't buy in Florida, but in international waters on the cruise ship (which is registered in the Bahamas). I imagine that is why they went with our home state's laws. That being said, we'll get something signed (either a form in the contract, which I'm looking for now) or will make a document ourselves within the 10 day window!

In that case legally I think FL law would be the correct answer but they could have written it differently.

[Msmithmd]

Originally Posted by mskayjay

"I've looked at the resale options, and boy, the prices look much more appealing than buying from Disney! What restrictions do I have from purchasing resale? From reading these posts, it looks like resale points are not available for cruises or the Adventures. What other restrictions are there?"

response
you lose the disney trades: cruises, AbyD, and trading for onsite hotels like the poly (which, like the cruises, is very expensive). that is all. there's no real loss in terms of value, but you do lose a few options if you don't care about price.

Can you please elaborate on the bolded part of the response here. We are still in the pondering stages of buying and my understanding is that if there is availability you can use your points at any of the onsite properties. You lose the cruises and AbyD of course but you can book at the other resorts. Is that not correct?

No, you can book at any DVC resort subject to availability, but not at any traditional cash resort. Although the point cost to stay at the traditional resorts is so high that you would be better to rent your year's DVC points out and pay cash rate anyway if you are really set on a non-DVC site. So again a theoretical resale "disadvantage" that is meaningless when you consider the full picture.

And finally, if you're worried about the hassle of renting out your DVC points to book a cash stay, then just bank points that year and use some of the $10,000 or so you will save buying resale to pay for that week at the Poly- and have double DVC points the next year!

[disneynutz]

Originally Posted by Dean

The point was that you need to understand the product before buying, esp since you have the opportunity. It usually takes about 6 months to do so with active investigation. I'm sorry if you think that wasn't helpful.

We took 2 years checking out the DVC before we first bought, we visited the resorts and took the tours. Later I found the DIS and learned more here than anywhere.

What I didn't learn as a non-owner was that we would have problems with MS, our accounts, our rooms, or that during the last few years Disney would change the rules and policies, some OK some not so much. That taught me that Disney will and can do what ever they want and in the future additional things may change.

Bill

[Sammie]

Originally Posted by disneynutz

Based on what you have written I would cancel the purchase and take some time to determine if buying resale is a good option.

Take away the Disney magic and look at buying like you were buying a car.

Will the car save you money compared to other models? (can you get a good enough room discount by renting or using a Disney discount)

Do you like the look and feel that you get when you are driving it. (you should fall in love with your home resort)

Will you drive the car regularly? (you need to commit to a Disney vacation every 2 years for at least 10 years)

Do you have the money to buy gas? (dues, transportation, tickets, food, and extras can cost thousands per vacation)

Your car will sometimes break down. (you won't always be able to get the room you want and you may have issues with the room or with MS)

Disney makes their money selling DVC contracts. They will change the rules and policies to cause people to buy direct.

Bill

This is a great analogy and add to it, that Direct Sales are like purchasing a new Ford from a Ford dealership.

Resale is buying a used Ford from Bob's Auto World.

Also are you going to be happy with that Ford for a very, very long time.

[ELMC]

Originally Posted by Sammie

This is a great analogy and add to it, that Direct Sales are like purchasing a new Ford from a Ford dealership.

Resale is buying a used Ford from Bob's Auto World.

Also are you going to be happy with that Ford for a very, very long time.

I would actually disagree with this statement. When it comes to staying at DVC resorts, a direct contract and a resale contract are the exact same thing. I think to compare a resale DVC contract to a used car cheapens it in a way. The connotation is that you are getting something that is run down or somebody else's problems.

I think it's important to make the point that resale can save you a ton of money, but when it comes to staying at DVC resorts, once you are an owner the product you receive and the treatment you receive is the same as a that of a direct purchaser.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by disneynutz

We took 2 years checking out the DVC before we first bought, we visited the resorts and took the tours. Later I found the DIS and learned more here than anywhere.

What I didn't learn as a non-owner was that we would have problems with MS, our accounts, our rooms, or that during the last few years Disney would change the rules and policies, some OK some not so much. That taught me that Disney will and can do what ever they want and in the future additional things may change.

Bill

On a site such as DIS it is likely one would have had access to the additional info that you state you missed. I know I've hit many of those subjects over the years. I think the difference is that many ignored the info even when they saw it, I'll use reallocation as an example where some stated they knew it was possible but assumed it never happen. I think that currently the most overlooked areas are those that look to retail because of the cash type exchange options, those expecting to exchange in RCI and those accepting additional risk by financing a luxury purchase.

[Sammie]

Originally Posted by mskayjay

"I've looked at the resale options, and boy, the prices look much more appealing than buying from Disney! What restrictions do I have from purchasing resale? From reading these posts, it looks like resale points are not available for cruises or the Adventures. What other restrictions are there?"

response
you lose the disney trades: cruises, AbyD, and trading for onsite hotels like the poly (which, like the cruises, is very expensive). that is all. there's no real loss in terms of value, but you do lose a few options if you don't care about price.

Can you please elaborate on the bolded part of the response here. We are still in the pondering stages of buying and my understanding is that if there is availability you can use your points at any of the onsite properties. You lose the cruises and AbyD of course but you can book at the other resorts. Is that not correct?

At this time the Polynesian is the only Disney deluxe resort without a DVC section or one under construction. Grand Floridian will be removed from the Disney Collection as soon as the DVC section opens. Once a resort adds a DVC section you can not book it through the Disney Collection, you can book the DVC villas either at 11 months, if you own there, or 7 months if available.

As to what the future holds for restrictions to resales there is no way to know. You could be limited to your home resort only and with a reduced booking window. So that is why it is important to purchase where you do not mind be limited to, should that ever happen.

[ELMC]

Originally Posted by Dean

On a site such as DIS it is likely one would have had access to the additional info that you state you missed. I know I've hit many of those subjects over the years. I think the difference is that many ignored the info even when they saw it, I'll use reallocation as an example where some stated they knew it was possible but assumed it never happen. I think that currently the most overlooked areas are those that look to retail because of the cash type exchange options, those expecting to exchange in RCI and those accepting additional risk by financing a luxury purchase.

Bookmark this post on this thread, because I think that this is a conversation that we will be having at some point in the future. Many people who chose to buy direct for these options will certainly be upset should Disney choose to make these changes, and rightfully so. The real problem will be the people who feel duped, as if they never knew that Disney could do this. That is why it is especially important to put that asterisk there when talking about the current "advantages" of buying direct over resale. We can lay out all the options in as much detail as possible, but if we are really being responsible we need to say at the end that these options are not guaranteed and can be modified or taken away at any point in the future. I know a lot of posters do say this, but some do not.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by ELMC

Bookmark this post on this thread, because I think that this is a conversation that we will be having at some point in the future. Many people who chose to buy direct for these options will certainly be upset should Disney choose to make these changes, and rightfully so. The real problem will be the people who feel duped, as if they never knew that Disney could do this. That is why it is especially important to put that asterisk there when talking about the current "advantages" of buying direct over resale. We can lay out all the options in as much detail as possible, but if we are really being responsible we need to say at the end that these options are not guaranteed and can be modified or taken away at any point in the future. I know a lot of posters do say this, but some do not.

When I think of timeshares I mostly expect the worst and hope for the best. When I see people post about buying and it's clear that DVC ONLY makes sense for them if all the planets align, I know they're often setting themselves up for disaster down the road. Anything that adds risk to their life or additional costs may be the last straw down the road. Basically one should look at DVC and ask themselves "where would I be owning DVC if I lost my job, there were a $5000 special assessment and the parks all closed and we were made aware of them all on the same day". Obviously for this situation few if any would buy DVC but it sets the tone for how to think about a timeshare.

[ELMC]

Originally Posted by Dean

When I think of timeshares I mostly expect the worst and hope for the best. When I see people post about buying and it's clear that DVC ONLY makes sense for them if all the planets align, I know they're often setting themselves up for disaster down the road. Anything that adds risk to their life or additional costs may be the last straw down the road. Basically one should look at DVC and ask themselves "where would I be owning DVC if I lost my job, there were a $5000 special assessment and the parks all closed and we were made aware of them all on the same day". Obviously for this situation few if any would buy DVC but it sets the tone for how to think about a timeshare.

I have to admit...as much as I would be able to weather those other issues, the parks closing down would be a big bummer. But I estimate that the prospect of that happening is so small that it is more than an acceptable risk to take. But still I do see your overall point, and it's a good one.

[Sammie]

Originally Posted by ELMC

I would actually disagree with this statement. When it comes to staying at DVC resorts, a direct contract and a resale contract are the exact same thing. I think to compare a resale DVC contract to a used car cheapens it in a way. The connotation is that you are getting something that is run down or somebody else's problems.

I think it's important to make the point that resale can save you a ton of money, but when it comes to staying at DVC resorts, once you are an owner the product you receive and the treatment you receive is the same as a that of a direct purchaser.

Before the recent limitations to resale purchases I would agree they were exactly the same.

That is not the case now, as they are not the same any longer. As to staying at DVC resorts yes, you are right. But that is not the total package.

A resale purchase is not the same as a direct purchase. Now whether the limitations matter or not, that is personal opinion.

Personally I agree with the Bill, that more limitations will be forth coming.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by Sammie

Before the recent limitations to resale purchases I would agree they were exactly the same.

That is not the case now, as they are not the same any longer. As to staying at DVC resorts yes, you are right. But that is not the total package.

A resale purchase is not the same as a direct purchase. Now whether the limitations matter or not, that is personal opinion.

Personally I agree with the Bill, that more limitations will be forth coming.

I would suggest that no current or potential future restrictions can change the landscape when it comes to the best use of DVC points. DVC cannot limit resale buyers using the club itself directly in a different way than retail members. All they can change are the non guaranteed options. They are still the same for reasonable usage and will cont to be.

[Sammie]

Originally Posted by Dean

I would suggest that no current or potential future restrictions can change the landscape when it comes to the best use of DVC points. DVC cannot limit resale buyers using the club itself directly in a different way than retail members. All they can change are the non guaranteed options. They are still the same for reasonable usage and will cont to be.

Aren't the guaranteed options, home resort with a one month booking advantage?

[disneynutz]

Bottom line is that DVD was/is/can be again, a cash cow for Disney and Jim Lewis was their golden child. In 2008 he was given $3.5 billion to develop future DVC resorts. Now that he is gone, I'm sure that Bilby is under pressure to increase profitability.

Since Disney only makes money from direct buyers, that will probably result in additional rule and policy changes or additional perks to direct buyers. The remote sales locations have already been closed due to lack of sales and the authorized Real Estate Agents selling program was also discontinued due to sales below projections.

This shows me that if it makes money, they keep or expand the program. If it doesn't they don't have any problem closing it down.

Bill

[Dean]

Originally Posted by Sammie

Aren't the guaranteed options, home resort with a one month booking advantage?

In a sense yes but as long as the club exists, the way I read it is that other club resort owners have a secondary guarantee of potential access to other club resorts subject to availability. Put another way, I do not see how DVC could legally or contractually differentiate between retail or resale in terms of booking options and windows for club resorts. I think the only risks are along the lines of things like a better wait list option for some over others as part of a VIP system. While RCI or similar direct exchange options are not guaranteed, I think it's realistic to think they will cont and be the same for all owners. After that, bets are off including the BVTC. IMO, DVC would have to do more adding on for qualified members than removing options for non qualified to differentiate the products in a meaningful way. So far they have not differentiated in a meaningful way, IMO. If anything, they did new buyers a favor by simply highlighting how little value those options in question really have.