DVC Options--Resale vs Disney?

[Dean]

Originally Posted by mskayjay

Can you please elaborate on the bolded part of the response here. We are still in the pondering stages of buying and my understanding is that if there is availability you can use your points at any of the onsite properties. You lose the cruises and AbyD of course but you can book at the other resorts. Is that not correct?

What current qualified owners (retail or grandfathered) can use points for CURRENTLY no available to current resale buyers is for DCL, Adventures by Disney, Concierge Collection and NON DVC Disney hotels at a moderate hotel level or above. After GF is built, that only leaves the Poly as an option onsite for deluxe hotels and a DVC there is also rumored. However, the cost using points is so much as to not be reasonable and to make those other options consistently a higher real cost than using cash and simply buying less points. They are also not guaranteed in any way either as to current cost levels or even that they will remain opitons. It is categorically an unreasonable choice to buy extra DVC points to use for those other options routinely, same for RCI. I cannot think of an exception to this statement. Already owning and having the points is somewhat different, same value but less choices due to the fact you already have the points.

[mskayjay]

Originally Posted by Dean

What current qualified owners (retail or grandfathered) can use points for CURRENTLY no available to current resale buyers is for DCL, Adventures by Disney, Concierge Collection and NON DVC Disney hotels at a moderate hotel level or above. After GF is built, that only leaves the Poly as an option onsite for deluxe hotels and a DVC there is also rumored. However, the cost using points is so much as to not be reasonable and to make those other options consistently a higher real cost than using cash and simply buying less points. They are also not guaranteed in any way either as to current cost levels or even that they will remain opitons. It is categorically an unreasonable choice to buy extra DVC points to use for those other options routinely, same for RCI. I cannot think of an exception to this statement. Already owning and having the points is somewhat different, same value but less choices due to the fact you already have the points.

Dean I'm sorry but you totally lost me. If I buy say AKV right now on resale, based on availability would I in the future be able to use those points for a stay at WL or BCV? As I am reading your post it sounds like you are saying the only Deluxe I would have available would be Poly and that doesn't seem to make sense.

[CarolMN]

To add to what Dean posted above -

Some here have purchased while counting on th3e ability to stay elsewhere. To their disappointment, they found that for the times they like to travel, they cannot get a reservation at 7 months for the resort they prefer. Some of those have sold and purchased where they want to be, others have purchased an add on contract with enough points to ensure they can get what they want when they want it.

Many members are comfortable using a waitlist to get what they want. Waitlists work sometimes.

OTOH, some members do not have a strong preference for a particular resort. They are happy anywhere as long as it is Disney. Others will post and say they always get what they want at 7 months. Time of year and type/size of the villa and willingness to use the waitlist are important, so take these reports for what they are - snapshots in time.

Lately, it has seemed a bit easier to get into the smaller / more popular WDW resorts at 7 months. Many believe that Aulani is absorbing a lot of points that otherwise would be spent at WDW. As members who don't own there check that stay off their "to do" lists, the situation at WDW is bound to change back to less availability at 7 months for the smaller / more popular resorts.

So really, IMO, the best advice is to buy a resort that you like, one that you wouldn't mind getting "stuck at" if your preferred options are not available.

The threads below by our fellow DVC member & DIS poster, drusba, will be of interest for those interested in booking windows for WDW - :

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2980826

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2919467

[Dean]

Originally Posted by mskayjay

Dean I'm sorry but you totally lost me. If I buy say AKV right now on resale, based on availability would I in the future be able to use those points for a stay at WL or BCV? As I am reading your post it sounds like you are saying the only Deluxe I would have available would be Poly and that doesn't seem to make sense.

It's not a resale vs retail thing for other DVC resorts. Even though some will tell you that DVC could severe the ability for resale points to use at other resorts without removing resorts from the club, I do not believe that to be legally possible. There is no guarantee you'll be able to use those points at other resorts, there's not even a guarantee you can use them at your home resort though. The 2 reasons you couldn't use them would be if either your resort or other resorts were no longer in the club (very unlikely) or simply subject to availability, a significant issue for some times of the year and certain options.

Until you understand these issues and many others, you are not ready to buy in.

[mskayjay]

Originally Posted by CarolMN

To add to what Dean posted above -

Some here have purchased while counting on th3e ability to stay elsewhere. To their disappointment, they found that for the times they like to travel, they cannot get a reservation at 7 months for the resort they prefer. Some of those have sold and purchased where they want to be, others have purchased an add on contract with enough points to ensure they can get what they want when they want it.

Many members are comfortable using a waitlist to get what they want. Waitlists work sometimes.

OTOH, some members do not have a strong preference for a particular resort. They are happy anywhere as long as it is Disney. Others will post and say they always get what they want at 7 months. Time of year and type/size of the villa and willingness to use the waitlist are important, so take these reports for what they are - snapshots in time.

Lately, it has seemed a bit easier to get into the smaller / more popular WDW resorts at 7 months. Many believe that Aulani is absorbing a lot of points that otherwise would be spent at WDW. As members who don't own there check that stay off their "to do" lists, the situation at WDW is bound to change back to less availability at 7 months for the smaller / more popular resorts.

So really, IMO, the best advice is to buy a resort that you like, one that you wouldn't mind getting "stuck at" if your preferred options are not available.

The threads below by our fellow DVC member & DIS poster, drusba, will be of interest for those interested in booking windows for WDW - :

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2980826

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2919467

So knowing that our "preferred" resorts are WL and AKV that is where we should by (and were planning on buying!) and we could use those points at other locations at the 7 mth window based on availability, correct? I got lost where Dean was referencing the Poly and the future GF DVC. The big thing at this point for us at least is do we go ahead and buy and lock ourselves in to DVC or do we rent as we go. Very torn.....

[DannysMom]

Originally Posted by mskayjay

"I've looked at the resale options, and boy, the prices look much more appealing than buying from Disney! What restrictions do I have from purchasing resale? From reading these posts, it looks like resale points are not available for cruises or the Adventures. What other restrictions are there?"

response
you lose the disney trades: cruises, AbyD, and trading for onsite hotels like the poly (which, like the cruises, is very expensive). that is all. there's no real loss in terms of value, but you do lose a few options if you don't care about price.

Can you please elaborate on the bolded part of the response here. We are still in the pondering stages of buying and my understanding is that if there is availability you can use your points at any of the onsite properties. You lose the cruises and AbyD of course but you can book at the other resorts. Is that not correct?

You may use your DVC points at any of the DVC resorts with availability at 7 months out. Using points to stay at non-DVC Disney resorts (moderates, or Poly, GF until construction finishes or nearly so) requires a trade and is one of the restrictions put in place on resale contracts. But the point costs to stay at those non-DVC Disney resorts is pretty high per night.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards App, please excuse any typos.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by mskayjay

So knowing that our "preferred" resorts are WL and AKV that is where we should by (and were planning on buying!) and we could use those points at other locations at the 7 mth window based on availability, correct? I got lost where Dean was referencing the Poly and the future GF DVC. The big thing at this point for us at least is do we go ahead and buy and lock ourselves in to DVC or do we rent as we go. Very torn.....

AKV may be your best value resale if those are your preferred options. That gives you potential access to concierge and the value villas and a later RTU. However, it may be more difficult to reserve VWL at 7 months than to get AKV at 7 months.

[mskayjay]

Originally Posted by Dean

It's not a resale vs retail thing for other DVC resorts. Even though some will tell you that DVC could severe the ability for resale points to use at other resorts without removing resorts from the club, I do not believe that to be legally possible. There is no guarantee you'll be able to use those points at other resorts, there's not even a guarantee you can use them at your home resort though. The 2 reasons you couldn't use them would be if either your resort or other resorts were no longer in the club (very unlikely) or simply subject to availability, a significant issue for some times of the year and certain options.

Until you understand these issues and many others, you are not ready to buy in.

nm.......not going to bother.....

[Dean]

Originally Posted by mskayjay

nm.......not going to bother.....

The point was that you need to understand the product before buying, esp since you have the opportunity. It usually takes about 6 months to do so with active investigation. I'm sorry if you think that wasn't helpful.

[DannysMom]

Originally Posted by mskayjay

Wow! *sprinkle sprinkle* have some pixie dust Dean! I have spent a tremendous amount of time looking into this, talked with several friends who are owners, stayed as a DVC guest, gone to the presentations twice now, etc. Your answer to my initial post was a bit confusing and I asked you to clarify one point in your response.

Ahhh, don't take offense! This board is a no pixie dust zone. The helpful folks around here are all about providing useful and truthful information about DVC. The guides confuse more buyers with pixie dust. Then those same folks come here, upset that what they bought doesn't work like they thought it would, or how they thought their guide said it would.

I only just bought (resale!) DVC this summer. The first time we investigated it, at a presentation at the MK, was in 2007, I think. I know we made a good purchase for our family, but it took us 5 years of WDW trips and reading off & on to get there. And I know that I understand how DVC works better than folks who have been members for several years, because as a brand new member, I can answer some of their questions.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards App, please excuse any typos.

[mskayjay]

Originally Posted by Dean

The point was that you need to understand the product before buying, esp since you have the opportunity. It usually takes about 6 months to do so with active investigation. I'm sorry if you think that wasn't helpful.

Dean it was the bolded part that sounds quite harsh. Your initial response to my post had information that was a bit unclear and I asked for clarification of the one point. For what its worth, we have gone to 2 presentations with Disney, stayed on a friends points to get the true DVC experience (split stay to make sure we didn't judge just on one resort), researched the costs versus paying out of pocket for stays, compared renting from others versus buying, stayed at Marriott, Hilton, and Sheraton Timeshares and compared them to DVC, etc. We have indeed done our homework and then the retail vs. resale came up. Those changes are the only hiccup in our research and your explanation was a little confusing.

I thought I had it all down pat until I read your response which to me sounded like I couldn't stay at any resort at the 7 mth window. This reads that you can only stay at Poly for a deluxe option which made no sense at all and that is why I asked you to clarify.
"After GF is built, that only leaves the Poly as an option onsite for deluxe hotels and a DVC there is also rumored."

[Dean]

Originally Posted by mskayjay

Dean it was the bolded part that sounds quite harsh. Your initial response to my post had information that was a bit unclear and I asked for clarification of the one point. For what its worth, we have gone to 2 presentations with Disney, stayed on a friends points to get the true DVC experience (split stay to make sure we didn't judge just on one resort), researched the costs versus paying out of pocket for stays, compared renting from others versus buying, stayed at Marriott, Hilton, and Sheraton Timeshares and compared them to DVC, etc. We have indeed done our homework and then the retail vs. resale came up. Those changes are the only hiccup in our research and your explanation was a little confusing.

I thought I had it all down pat until I read your response which to me sounded like I couldn't stay at any resort at the 7 mth window. This reads that you can only stay at Poly for a deluxe option which made no sense at all and that is why I asked you to clarify.
"After GF is built, that only leaves the Poly as an option onsite for deluxe hotels and a DVC there is also rumored."

It wasn't intended as harsh. It does sound like you may not understand the options well enough to but at present.

[Missyrose]

Originally Posted by mskayjay

Dean it was the bolded part that sounds quite harsh. Your initial response to my post had information that was a bit unclear and I asked for clarification of the one point. For what its worth, we have gone to 2 presentations with Disney, stayed on a friends points to get the true DVC experience (split stay to make sure we didn't judge just on one resort), researched the costs versus paying out of pocket for stays, compared renting from others versus buying, stayed at Marriott, Hilton, and Sheraton Timeshares and compared them to DVC, etc. We have indeed done our homework and then the retail vs. resale came up. Those changes are the only hiccup in our research and your explanation was a little confusing.

I thought I had it all down pat until I read your response which to me sounded like I couldn't stay at any resort at the 7 mth window. This reads that you can only stay at Poly for a deluxe option which made no sense at all and that is why I asked you to clarify.
"After GF is built, that only leaves the Poly as an option onsite for deluxe hotels and a DVC there is also rumored."

A couple of things to note, just for the sake of clarification:

1) If you buy a DVC contract (either from Disney or via resale) you will be able to make a reservation at your home resort 11 months out from your vacation date and at any of the other DVC RESORTS at 7 months out.

2) The option to stay at non-DVC Disney Resorts only applies to contracts bought from Disney or via resale before March 20, 2011. As part of the Disney collection, you can use your DVC points to stay at one of the moderate resorts or at a deluxe resort (provided that resort doesn't have DVC villas), which right now is Fort Wilderness, the Poly, GF and Yacht Club. They're currently building DVC at GF, so once that opens, GF will exit the Disney Collection. The point costs for this option is often 3, 4 or even 5 times the per-night point cost at one of the DVC resorts. This is why many on this board say it is a poor value use for your points.

3) Dean happens to be one of the most knowledgeable people on these forums. He knows the details of DVC and other timeshare programs better than almost anyone. So while you think he comes off brusk, he is in fact attempting to give you the facts you need to make an informed decision.

[mskayjay]

Originally Posted by Dean

It wasn't intended as harsh. It does sound like you may not understand the options well enough to but at present.

Fair enough. You can't "hear" someone's inflection through this form of conversation. I do appreciate your expertise but that one part really sounds like you were indicating that Poly was the only Deluxe that would be available and that is what threw me off.

have a great day
K

[Phenomonom1]

We didn't buy in Florida, but in international waters on the cruise ship (which is registered in the Bahamas). I imagine that is why they went with our home state's laws. That being said, we'll get something signed (either a form in the contract, which I'm looking for now) or will make a document ourselves within the 10 day window!