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Old 09-17-2012, 07:07 PM   #136
mytripsandraces
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Originally Posted by *NikkiBell* View Post
Actually, this is something that has been documented. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I have read about it before in a book as well as spoke with someone at Disney Studios/Archives two years ago during my ABD trip. Walt specifically said that he did not want alcohol in either MKs. Club 33 was made the exception in DL due to its being a private club that is not open to the public. Florida's MK, though, does not have such a venue and all of the park was meant to stay "dry." This tradition has been in place since it opened in 1971.
Which book? I haven't been able to find anything about Walt Disney's determination to keep alcohol out of the Magic Kingdom in Florida.

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"Times and conditions change so rapidly that we must keep our aim constantly focused on the future."

Walt Disney

Walt's ideas would have evolved.

Stranding his ideas in 1966 (or before) does a disservice to his legacy of forward thinking.
I totally agree, Kevin. I am not a drinker and don't drink wine or beer at all, so don't see a need for alcohol in the Magic Kingdom, but I'm not going to base my opinion on the perceived wishes of a man who has been dead for almost 45 years, especially a man who made his fortune through sales. He would most definitely have revisited the issue over the years. If he weren't interested in continual growth and improvement in the parks, they would look very different. If he had wanted the Florida Magic Kingdom to be just a copy of the original Disneyland, the castle would be a lot shorter!
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:08 PM   #137
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“As part of the overall theming, we wanted to offer wine that enhances the guest experience and complements the French-inspired cuisine,” says Stuart McGuire, Beverage Director, Walt Disney Parks and Resorts. “The wines focus primarily on France’s famous wine-growing regions, including Champagne, Alsace, Loire, Rhone, Burgundy and Bordeaux.

“We’ll also offer the leading French beer, Kronenbourg 1664,” says McGuire. “And, staying in the general region, we’ll also offer Belgian beers.”
You have added a confused smilie and I'm not sure where the confusion comes from.
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:14 PM   #138
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BOG will just cause my DW to be in FOG. i will never be able to get her out of Fantasyland now.
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:21 PM   #139
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That's an opinion.

I'm curious why alcohol is being demonized.

Why arent all of Walt's wishes being fulfilled.

Nikkibell has pointed out video showing what Walt wanted Epcot to become.

I'm guessing no one has called Guest Relations to complain about this.
Kevin, ultimately here's where I stand on the issue.

i don't really like the idea that the MK isn't dry anymore, in large part because of the tradition, a deference to the whole "what would Walt want" crowd.... and the simple fact that if you wanted a drink, it's not like the Monorail resorts were far or hard to get too.

I personally love having a drink at the other parks, and La Cava and the Tune Inn Lounge are two of my favorite places in some of the other parks, so I don't have a problem with alcohol served in the parks in general.

Beyond the opening of the door and not trusting Disney's current management to resist the temptation.... I ultimately don't think 1 TS restaurant, for 1 meal, is going to be the end of the world that leads to a dramatic change in the park. (beyond just the breaking of tradition... which honestly... most people who aren't huge Disney fans aren't even going to be aware of.)


That said... What worries me is that Slippery slope. That temptation for the current Disney Management to make it more readily available within the park itself, outside of a single TS meal at a single restaurant.... to the cart or any CS location having it as an option. While the presence and availability of a beer or mixed drink isn't by itself dangerous thing... and I trust the average guest to not go overboard... there are certain things unique to the MK that I feel could lead to more issues than what we see in EPCOT, MGM, or AK. Keep in mind, these are all just my opinions, and observations I've taken...

1. I feel that the MK tends to be the hottest park out of the 4. This could just be due to fact it's the oldest, and it has a lot of outdoor, switchback based ride queues. You already run into perfectly reasonable people who know their limit, finding themselves more tipsy, or ill, than they are used too... simply because they didn't realize how the Florida heat would impact them different than back home. With less locations to get out of the heat, and all the lines capable of getting pretty hot and miserable.... I could see even more issues from someone who only has 2 beers (or even just 1) having it impact them much more than normal.

2. In part because of the heat issues.... I also feel like the MK is probably the most stressful out of the 4 parks. Between the heat, the high number of rides/attractions people feel like they need to get too [hurry up and wait].... the fact it's an older park with more bottlenecks from the heavy crowds.... And the big headline activities that require staking out a random spot early [parades and fireworks]... The stress can easily be there if you let it. Adding alcohol to that and you might increase the chances of tempers boiling over more than they already do.

3. And quite frankly.... IMHO... I feel like the MK has probably the highest density of children than the other parks. Maybe it's just impression... or maybe it's due to the parks more compact size that AK an EPCOT, combined with the large number of family attractions that even the smaller child can enjoy. (and the Fantasyland Stroller Parking Lots don't hurt the impression). It just seems like something where opening up the door for the occasional rotten apple just isn't worth the impact to that many kids at once.


Again.... These concerns are mostly aimed at the creep of the availability beyond just the one location into something much more extreme than anything Disney has currently publicly announced or hinted at, So this could be as pointless as getting all worked up about how much I'm going to enjoy the Rhine River Ride at EPCOT, or the Western River Expansion in Frontierland. But, since we are all talking about things here, It doesn't hurt any to express my concerns as well about what could happen.
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:31 PM   #140
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As I've pointed out...I dont drink, so whatever decision is made will not directly have any effect on me or my enjoyment of the Magic Kingdom.

My question remains to be...why is this different than anything else Walt wanted?

I was just in California Adventure at the end of July. CarsLand was packed with families with kids of all ages and alcohol was available everywhere.....everywhere and all day. The Wine Country Trattoria is across the walkway from CarsLand.

Why is that different. Why isnt there an angry outcry and calls to Guest Relations?

Is it because Walt did not say "I dont want alcohol in CarsLand?"

I'm being facetious....but I dont see a difference between alcohol being served all day in CarsLand and it being served in Frontierland.

The only difference I see it that Walt said this decades ago and as I've pointed out.....not everything he said he wanted happened.

Why is this different?
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:38 PM   #141
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Its 50 years later people, Walt has long past and things have changed in the world today. Disney has proven over and over again that alcohol can be served in their parks without ruining the family atmosphere. If you don't like beer and wine sales at Be Our Guest, then don't eat there. It will definately make ADRs much easier for the rest of us.

Last edited by *NikkiBell*; 09-17-2012 at 07:54 PM.
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:02 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by mytripsandraces View Post
Which book? I haven't been able to find anything about Walt Disney's determination to keep alcohol out of the Magic Kingdom in Florida.
I have also been searching for this "common knowledge." I have sent E-Mails, and done Google searches. I have only found references to Disneyland.....nothing about the Florida parks.

I would love to know the title(s) Nikki read to get the information about Florida.

Personally, I am still bothered by the "against Walt's wishes" part of the blog title.....Is that fact or speculation?
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:12 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Justin Jett View Post
I would love to know the title(s) Nikki read to get the information about Florida.

Personally, I am still bothered by the "against Walt's wishes" part of the blog title.....Is that fact or speculation?

I am pretty sure it was Bob Thomas' book or the large coffee table Imagineering book. I could be wrong in the title though as I have several on Walt and his creation. With that being said, I did also get this information live during a conversation last summer.
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:29 PM   #144
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:29 PM   #145
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I guess the addition of alcohol to the MK is leaving me a little disappointed. It may seem silly but the addition of alcohol to the MK , in my mind, lowered my respect for Disney.
By not having alcohol in the parks previously.. it made the statement..that yeah, we could make a ton more money by selling alcohol but we're giving up that money because we're Disney and we don't need to have alcohol and people will still come.
This is just my gut feeling when I heard about it.

In the long run, do I feel it will change anything about MK....NO! I think all will fine in the world, the castle will not turn into and after hours club, and there will not be gangs of dwarves fighting over territory on main street. MK will still be a family park, with people behaving as badly or nicely as they did before.
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:47 PM   #146
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Didnt Walt also mention the Magic Kingdom being for children "of all ages"?
Yes indeed he did but but he said that many years ago but that does not seem to count anymore!!!!!!
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:53 PM   #147
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Um,
John Lasseter = Head of Imagineering
John Lasseter = Wine Maker (pusher)

This is not Walt's world. It is really John Lasseter's and the rest of the Disney brass' world. The execs have often had to break the mindset of "WWWD?" and take a dive into "This is what we are doing!"
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:56 PM   #148
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With that being said, I did also get this information live during a conversation last summer.
Uhhhhhhhh..........a live conversation?

I will read those books that you mentioned, and may have followup questions.
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Old 09-17-2012, 09:06 PM   #149
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well walt wishes was also not to have cms with visible disabilities working in front of guest until a couple cms sued. So walt had to adjust his wishes so cms with disabilities can work in more areas. Meaning if walt was alive he might deicide that his wish are out dated and this restaurant fits the theme to have wine. It not like they decide the popcorn stand in story book circus should start selling circus themed mixed drinks. They still have some disney relatives still alive even though they have no say in the company but i wonder what they would say about this issue.
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Old 09-17-2012, 09:16 PM   #150
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I've already expressed my thoughts earlier in this thread. I'm not bothered by this decision, and I'm not really even a big drinker myself.

Maybe this has been covered, but why aren't those of you who are upset also upset about Disneyland Paris serving alcohol? It's basically another Magic Kingdom. Or maybe some of you have been consistently making phone calls and writing letters about that over the past couple of decades.

As for people being drunk in the park, I'm now thinking of last week's segment about the monorail resort drinks. Wouldn't it would be just as easy (if not easier) for someone to get drunk by drinking around the monorail resorts and deciding to hop on over to the MK for a few hours? The chances of overindulging by bar-hopping are far greater than by eating a nice meal with a glass or two of wine.

Or has anyone been to the Hoop De Doo? Wow, the wine is free flowing there. I'm not even a big drinker, and I was pretty loopy by the time I left, as were the other DISers I was with. That's a family show. And someone hitting an early show can easily can just take a boat over to the MK after drinking to their heart's desire. Where's the outrage over that?

But maybe it's also a matter of how we view the parks. I don't think that the MK is just a "children's playground". Walt wanted the parks to be enjoyable for children AND adults. Does the fact that the park is also for adults require that it have alcohol? Nope. Does the fact that it is also for children mean that alcohol shouldn't be offered? Nope.
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