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Old 09-05-2012, 02:44 PM   #16
DCTooTall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilferk View Post
Hold on, everybody.

If you trace the threads back through the entire rats nest, from the article quoted above, to the original IGN article, to the original source (an Indiewire Playlist article)...you'll see something very interesting.

Their entire reason for saying the AK Avatar project is delayed is....they expected to see concept art by now. That's it. Their whole reasoning. Not that they've talked to anyone at Disney or WDI or in the Cameron camp. That they haven't seen concept art.

Now, maybe it's true...maybe the project has been put on the back burner/delayed. But I'm not sure the reasoning behind THIS stream of articles is all that solid.

Saw that same thing and was getting ready to post about it.


Also, i wonder if people still saying they want Beastly Kingdom realize that some of the Beast kingdom ideas ended up getting incorporaed into the IOA's Lost Continent area.... which is now a shell of it's former self due to Harry Potter taking over the land (and attractions) once housed in the area.
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Old 09-05-2012, 03:13 PM   #17
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"If you trace the threads back through the entire rats nest, from the article quoted above, to the original IGN article, to the original source (an Indiewire Playlist article)...you'll see something very interesting."

I recall Listening to a podcast where the lack of concept art was discussed a few weeks back. I don't remember if it was WDW Today or the Unofficial Guide with Jim Hill, but I know Len Testa was on the show. Maybe the original source heard this and ran with it.
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Old 09-05-2012, 04:20 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Cheshire Figment View Post
What is needed is the originally planned Beastly Kingdom!
YES! Can we start a picket outside of AK? It'd be pro-WDW, so they wouldn't break us up, right?
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:34 PM   #19
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Avatar had a lot of box office dollars, but is nowhere near the obsession HP is. People play quidditch, for crying out loud.

In addition to a lack of concept art I've heard there are 'creative differences' between imagineering and Cameron.
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:51 PM   #20
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we posted something on our new site

http://www.jamboeveryone.com/Blog/En...or_Avatar.html

I would love to see an Australia area myself
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Old 09-05-2012, 09:20 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by mrsklamc View Post
Avatar had a lot of box office dollars, but is nowhere near the obsession HP is. People play quidditch, for crying out loud.
It didn't just have "a lot of box office dollars", it's the #1 grossing film of all time. By a wide margin. (Not adjusted for inflation, of course.)

So clearly someone--a lot of someones--liked it. And with 2-3 film sequels in the works and other possibilities (cartoon, comics, books, etc.), it's bound to remain in the public eye for years to come.

No, it probably won't ever have the lasting appeal of Harry Potter but that ship has sailed. HP is no longer an option.

And in terms of bringing a new audience into Disney's theme parks, I would say Avatar has more potential than either generic offerings (Beastly Kingdom, Australia) or most owned content that hasn't yet been exploited (Incredibles, Up, Wall-E, etc.)

Quote:
In addition to a lack of concept art I've heard there are 'creative differences' between imagineering and Cameron.
I think we've all heard variations of the same stories. What we don't know is:

1. Does a rift truly exist?
2. How serious is it?
3. Could it keep the parties from working together?

Disagreements happen all the time in the business world--particularly when creatives are involved. And Cameron already has a reputation for being difficult to work with.

That doesn't mean they won't ultimately find common ground and move forward.
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Old 09-05-2012, 09:31 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkraz View Post
It didn't just have "a lot of box office dollars", it's the #1 grossing film of all time. By a wide margin. (Not adjusted for inflation, of course.)

So clearly someone--a lot of someones--liked it. And with 2-3 film sequels in the works and other possibilities (cartoon, comics, books, etc.), it's bound to remain in the public eye for years to come.

No, it probably won't ever have the lasting appeal of Harry Potter but that ship has sailed. HP is no longer an option.

And in terms of bringing a new audience into Disney's theme parks, I would say Avatar has more potential than either generic offerings (Beastly Kingdom, Australia) or most owned content that hasn't yet been exploited (Incredibles, Up, Wall-E, etc.)



I think we've all heard variations of the same stories. What we don't know is:

1. Does a rift truly exist?
2. How serious is it?
3. Could it keep the parties from working together?

Disagreements happen all the time in the business world--particularly when creatives are involved. And Cameron already has a reputation for being difficult to work with.

That doesn't mean they won't ultimately find common ground and move forward.
I have to agree that Avatar doesnt resonate with people like HP and some other things (star wars, marvel)

It was visually stunning and thats what brought people to the movie. it also capitalized (heck started) the 3D thing

ultimately, the story itself was generally blah which means u r a lot less likely to have Avatar conventions years from now than HP ones. I just think in 5 years no one will care a bit about avatar
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Old 09-05-2012, 09:48 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by MJMcBride View Post
ultimately, the story itself was generally blah which means u r a lot less likely to have Avatar conventions years from now than HP ones. I just think in 5 years no one will care a bit about avatar
I'd put it more like 10 years if Cameron is planning the 2-3 sequels. They won't be done anytime soon.

That said, if the attractions are well done it doesn't really matter. Is anyone holding Twilight Zone conventions these days? How many people even know that Splash Mountain is a tie-in to Song of the South?

If Internet message boards had existed 25 years ago, we would have had this same discussion upon learning that Disney planned to theme major attractions around Twilight Zone and SotS. Seems a little foolish in retrospect, eh?

Personally I haven't watched the likes of Mary Poppins, Dumbo or Peter Pan in 20 years. Doesn't mean I turn my nose up to any of those films' content in the Disney parks.
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Old 09-05-2012, 10:04 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkraz View Post
It didn't just have "a lot of box office dollars", it's the #1 grossing film of all time. By a wide margin. (Not adjusted for inflation, of course.)

So clearly someone--a lot of someones--liked it. And with 2-3 film sequels in the works and other possibilities (cartoon, comics, books, etc.), it's bound to remain in the public eye for years to come.

No, it probably won't ever have the lasting appeal of Harry Potter but that ship has sailed. HP is no longer an option.

And in terms of bringing a new audience into Disney's theme parks, I would say Avatar has more potential than either generic offerings (Beastly Kingdom, Australia) or most owned content that hasn't yet been exploited (Incredibles, Up, Wall-E, etc.)
The thing is though, for a movie that was so huge, the resounding comments I hear (when I hear anything at all) is that it was overrated or the person didn't like it. It seems that an extremely effective hype machine was created for that movie and it worked. People seemed to go out in droves to see it, but clearly an awful lot of people were less than impressed. Most telling to me though is that no one really seems to be thinking about or talking about Avatar. That to me says it's just not going to make a big cultural impact or stand the test of time. If Disney is after the HP effect, I think the should think about putting a large scale Star Wars land at HS. If ever there was a successful franchise with a rabid cult following, it would have to be SW. And I'm not even particularly a fan, but I would certainly go see that. There are so many creative possibilities there too. Imagine virtually flying a pod racer or grabbing a drink with some three-eyed animatronic aliens at the cantina or yet another classic Dumbo-esque kiddie ride fashioned after tie-fighters. The scenery, the characters ... the possibilities are endless. And goodness knows George Lucas has pimped those movies out as much as he can, so I'm sure he'd jump at the opportunity to collaborate on that.
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Old 09-05-2012, 10:08 PM   #25
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That said, if the attractions are well done it doesn't really matter. Is anyone holding Twilight Zone conventions these days? How many people even know that Splash Mountain is a tie-in to Song of the South?

If Internet message boards had existed 25 years ago, we would have had this same discussion upon learning that Disney planned to theme major attractions around Twilight Zone and SotS. Seems a little foolish in retrospect, eh?

Personally I haven't watched the likes of Mary Poppins, Dumbo or Peter Pan in 20 years. Doesn't mean I turn my nose up to any of those films' content in the Disney parks.
But those are rides rather than entire sections of the park. Don't get me wrong, I agree that a great attraction can be just that and the theme becomes secondary, but I still think they could choose a better jumping off point.

I also think that Disney cartoons are pretty timeless. My daughter doesn't watch Snow White after Tangled and say, "I don't really like Snow White b/c it's so dated." I'm not sure Avatar will have that timeless quality. Very few live action films do. At the least, it's too soon to tell.
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Old 09-05-2012, 10:31 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by fuzzlekins View Post
The thing is though, for a movie that was so huge, the resounding comments I hear (when I hear anything at all) is that it was overrated or the person didn't like it. It seems that an extremely effective hype machine was created for that movie and it worked. People seemed to go out in droves to see it, but clearly an awful lot of people were less than impressed.
Avatar has an 83% critic score and 92% reader score on Rotten Tomatoes. Sounds like a LOT of people were impressed.

Quote:
Most telling to me though is that no one really seems to be thinking about or talking about Avatar.
Not unusual for a 3 year old film which hasn't seen any follow-up content. These days, hype doesn't usually happen on its own. It has to be manufactured.

Quote:
If Disney is after the HP effect, I think the should think about putting a large scale Star Wars land at HS. If ever there was a successful franchise with a rabid cult following, it would have to be SW. And I'm not even particularly a fan, but I would certainly go see that. There are so many creative possibilities there too. Imagine virtually flying a pod racer or grabbing a drink with some three-eyed animatronic aliens at the cantina or yet another classic Dumbo-esque kiddie ride fashioned after tie-fighters. The scenery, the characters ... the possibilities are endless. And goodness knows George Lucas has pimped those movies out as much as he can, so I'm sure he'd jump at the opportunity to collaborate on that.
George Lucas doesn't do anything unless the price is right. And his relationship with Disney has often been strained.

I agree Star Wars would be a better property. And the mere fact that Disney would turn to Avatar suggests they have been unsuccessful in selling Lucas on an expansion. Either that or his terms are unreasonable. Occam's Razor.
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Old 09-05-2012, 10:39 PM   #27
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Avatar has an 83% critic score and 92% reader score on Rotten Tomatoes. Sounds like a LOT of people were impressed.
I hear what you're saying but I have yet to hear anyone in real life say they loved the movie. It just seemed so artificially inflated, and seemed to just kind of die off abruptly in terms of the buzz. It just doesn't have the "feel" of a phenomenon the way HP did, or SW, or even Toy Story or Cars. I was shocked to hear anyone would want to center an attraction much less a whole land around Avatar. If they do it, I'm sure it'll be great b/c like I was just saying to my hubby, "Disney doesn't do anything half-***ed." (well, except their toys but that's another story)
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Old 09-05-2012, 10:59 PM   #28
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I liked Avatar... I mean the problem was that it got too hyped for its own good. I saw it a few times in theaters, and I think it really is a good movie. The problem is everyone feels the need to radicalize their opinion on it... Oh they might capitalize on it at a theme park? "Worst movie ever!" Or in the case of a fan... "Wow, I can't wait!". It all comes down to opinion, and a lot of people are still stuck in this wide hive agreement that despite seeing it and enjoying it, or just thinking so-so, they're turning that into a view that it wasn't a good movie at all.

I'm not saying I'm excited for Avatarland or anything, but I think it'd be nice even if it doesn't really have a place in Animal Kingdom... It'd definitely increase my time spent at that park if its done well. That said, I am still a proponent for Beastly Kingdom, that's still on the to-do list for me.
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Old 09-05-2012, 11:05 PM   #29
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What is needed is the originally planned Beastly Kingdom!
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Old 09-05-2012, 11:39 PM   #30
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Have u guys looked at the international numbers for Avatar yet? It did ridiculously well around the globe. WDW is working hard to expand international visitation and Avatarland is just the property that resonates easily to an international audience. I don't follow a lot of Disney rumors and news but I think this is a very smart move if they can execute it as well as Carsland.
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