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Old 06-28-2012, 11:38 AM   #31
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What?! I'm so sorry to hear this. You guys are in my prayers.
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Old 06-28-2012, 07:12 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clanmcculloch View Post
I really think that you're reading some of your own experiences into what was said by OP. Nowhere does it say anthing about throwing things or lashing out at anybody. The child was on the floor flailing. Kids can very quickly be moved to the side of the room. No need to evacuate a classroom for a child who's on the floor flailing.

If a child has a history of that kind of fit where their plan states that they are to be restrained then I understand getting close enough to do so, but unless the plan says that (and OP has said nothing to suggest that there is any such instruction) then I just don't understand why a teacher would get close enough to a flailing child that she COULD be kicked. Move things and people away to ensure everybody's safety seems to make more sense. Making sure it's not an epileptic seizure makes even more sense.

There's a difference between consequences and criminal assault charges. HUGE difference. I absolutely agree that consequences for inappropriate behaviour can make a huge difference. I also think it's important with special needs kids (heck even neuro-typical kids but more-so with special needs kids) to look at the environment and figure out if there's some underlying need that isn't being met that let do such behaviour. Both need to be done. I still think criminal assault charges are compeletely inappropriate when there's no ability to understand intent.
I was giving examples of situations that could evolve from a 'flailing fit', and that getting deliberately kicked was one of them. Also, once a child is on the floor, throwing a fit, all learning has stopped in that room, so the other students need to be removed so their learning can continue, somehow, somewhere. One needs to remember that there is more than one child in the classroom. Some people tend to forget that quite quickly.

My daughter was placed in a class that had a significant number of children with behavioral issues. She was not one of them. She learned nothing that year, (except some cool new swear words,) and spent a lot of time being evacuated from her classroom.

Did the OP state that the child had no ability to understand intent? If this 11 year old child has no ability to understand cause and reaction, then a more restrictive environment needs to be found immediately. The other kids need to be kept safe. The other kids do not need to worry about being hurt, stabbed with a compass point or a pair of scissors, ducking flying chairs (which has happened to students in our district, until I put my foot down and refused to let it continue - by filing assault charges). They also have a right to FAPE.

All this can be fixed without the hyperbole of an overreaction. No need for a lawyer, a court case, or a news story. Just some common sense on both sides, parents and school system, to find the appropriate, safe placement.
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Old 06-29-2012, 04:32 AM   #33
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Yes this should have been dealt with competently at the first incident, but instead the school due to their incompetence overreacted and had the child arrested.
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:02 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by bookwormde View Post
Yes this should have been dealt with competently at the first incident, but instead the school due to their incompetence overreacted and had the child arrested.
Don't forget that if the IEP is changed, the parent has to agree and sign it. Otherwise, the school legally has to follow the last signed IEP. I have a feeling that we are not getting the entire story.

bookwormde, you are always one to jump on the school, doctors, and just about everyone else besides the parent in these situations. Is it never, ever the parents' fault in your world? It seems the blame is always on someone else. I'm not saying I blame anyone here, it's just that after many, many posts, your response has gotten very predictable.
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:30 PM   #35
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I can only go by the information presented by the parent and the news story.
Yes the school should have called an IEP meeting immediately after the initial incident and made changes, but they did not so who's fault is that.
Schools are the "professionals" so they are held to a higher standard. Yes there are certainly parents who if properly informed could be more supportive of their children, but parent training even though part of to tools in an IEP is rarely implemented.
I can tell you in 100s of cases I am familiar with I have never seen one where the school did not have the majority of the culpability when things "go bad".
Sometimes it is just well meaning educational who lack the support and training, often it is just people who are doing what is standard or convenient, but in the end it is the schools primary responsibility.
Texas in many regions is known for being one of the worst for these types of situations, so I am sure that "clouds" my perceptions.
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Old 07-03-2012, 02:12 PM   #36
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I am so sorry that your family has to endure all of this. I feel especially bad for your child who may not understand the full impact of what has happened, nor does he understand the consequences given.

Hopefully, the school and you can come to a reasonable conclusion that is acceptable to both parties.

I would get some advice from your son's doctor before agreeing to any conversations of any kind about this issue.

Prayers are sent up for you as you deal with all of this.
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Old 07-25-2012, 07:27 PM   #37
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So now would most schools even file charges had an 11 year old without any special needs got upset and kicked a teacher?
I have one better than that! My BF's 9 year old was arresting for bringing a "weapon" in from the playground. The weapon??? A stick. Not a club. Not a log. A stick. He did not hit anyone with it. He just had it in his possession.
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:20 PM   #38
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My ds11 had a kid with behavioral issues in his class last year - 5th grade. My son has ADD and his own behavioral issues. He was afraid of this boy most of the school year because he was kicked if he got too close to the boys desk - he sat right in front of him. The 2nd to last week of school this boy was hitting a smaller kid on the playground and my ds jumped in to stop him. After being punched multiple times in the chest and kicked hard enough to leave a baseball sized bruise my son grabbed him by the throat. Both boys were lectured and given detention. The boys aide later told my dd that the other parents were livid because their kid was punished. Now I agree that jail is not the right punishment for any child but he also can't be allowed to assault anyone - child or adult. If it had been my dd8 he was beating/kicking - my child with a clotting disorder - we would have ended up at the ER.
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Old 08-03-2012, 09:09 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by WantToGoNow View Post
My ds11 had a kid with behavioral issues in his class last year - 5th grade. My son has ADD and his own behavioral issues. He was afraid of this boy most of the school year because he was kicked if he got too close to the boys desk - he sat right in front of him. The 2nd to last week of school this boy was hitting a smaller kid on the playground and my ds jumped in to stop him. After being punched multiple times in the chest and kicked hard enough to leave a baseball sized bruise my son grabbed him by the throat. Both boys were lectured and given detention. The boys aide later told my dd that the other parents were livid because their kid was punished. Now I agree that jail is not the right punishment for any child but he also can't be allowed to assault anyone - child or adult. If it had been my dd8 he was beating/kicking - my child with a clotting disorder - we would have ended up at the ER.
Where in the world were the supervising adults? Where was the kid's aide? A student with violent tendencies should never be left unattended - scheduling overlaps are hard, but it can be done. My district never plans for it until I make a stink about kids being unsupervised during our contracted, unpaid half hour lunch break. All I have to state is "I think this might be in violation of the student's IEP"...
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Old 09-02-2012, 12:03 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Schmeck View Post
Where in the world were the supervising adults? Where was the kid's aide? A student with violent tendencies should never be left unattended - scheduling overlaps are hard, but it can be done. My district never plans for it until I make a stink about kids being unsupervised during our contracted, unpaid half hour lunch break. All I have to state is "I think this might be in violation of the student's IEP"...
I'm curious about something. You mentioned in another post that your daughter
learned nothing the year she was in a class with many kids with behavior issues.
Can I ask why do you work with special needs kids if it seems tough for you?
Perhaps I have misunderstood something but it seems like a conflict for you.
I apologize if I got something wrong. I'm from Canada were all kids are in the
same classroom regardless of abilities.
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Old 10-07-2012, 02:07 PM   #41
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I am a teacher and I DO NOT support the school district. This child is special needs and should have a behavior plan. I have worked extensively with students (both with and without special needs) and have seen even those without special needs escalated into a frenzy by people who didn't know how to handle a situation.

Think for a minute--as an adult haven't you gotten angry and lashed out (even with words) at someone? Imagine yourself as a child whose comprehension isn't as developed as yours and who doesn't have the words to use. Imagine that you are feeling attacked by others. What would your instincts be?
BINGO!

From working in the schools as a special ed para and having a son with ADHD, SID, Anxiety, and Depression, this has been my experience. Close to 100% of the time situations could have been avoided if only the adult - the person who is supposed to know how to deal with children - knew what they were doing.
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Old 10-07-2012, 02:13 PM   #42
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And where does throwing a fit and assaulting staff not fall into "imminent danger"?

I understand how people are upset about a child being locked up for 3 hours in jail - that is very extreme. But give one minute of thought to the other side! How many of you go to work each day and are assaulted? And if you are, how can that possibly be acceptable to you?

I have filed charges against a special needs student who punched me. He was twice my size, and I was fearful for my life. I should not have to work under those circumstances.

Obviously there does need to be a new IEP, and perhaps a new placement.
While I was a para, I was spit on, groped in both private areas REPEATEDLY and DAILY, scratched more times than I can count, hit, kicked, you name it. I would never ever consider calling the police on these children. I cared about them and wanted to help de-escalate things.

I also cannot count how many times I saw teachers and other paras PURPOSEFULLY try to escalate situations instead of de-escalate them. You could always tell which teachers would and which wouldn't. I am not speaking out against teachers - I worked with several loving, caring, wonderful teachers. However, there are definitely bad teachers out there who should not be around children, especially children with special needs.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:25 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dasan View Post
I'm curious about something. You mentioned in another post that your daughter
learned nothing the year she was in a class with many kids with behavior issues.
Can I ask why do you work with special needs kids if it seems tough for you?
Perhaps I have misunderstood something but it seems like a conflict for you.
I apologize if I got something wrong. I'm from Canada were all kids are in the
same classroom regardless of abilities.
I work with special needs kids because:

1) I can help them, I'm very good at it, actually.

2) I want to make sure all children are educated, kept safe, and are given an appropriate education.

As some others have stated, they allow violence to occur in their classrooms. They allow themselves to be put at risk. That is setting a horrible precedent in the classroom. Other kids witness the behavior. The child doing the assaulting is not getting the proper feedback to lessen the violent behavior. When the preschooler gets to high school you are now talking about a young adolescent with violent tendencies - and it's a lot harder to keep others safe when the out of control student is taller and heavier than most of the staff.

I stay in special education because my daughter had that year of non-learning. No one learned in that classroom, and administration did not care. I was not working in the special ed department that year, as my younger daughter was in kindergarten, and got out early. If I had been more aware of the classroom dynamics, I would have dealt with it accordingly.

I will say that I have seen an improvement in our school district over the past two years - we now have a very low tolerance to violence, and have appropriate support and physical space to handle most situations. We do outplace some of the students with more severe issues, but have found that enforcing safety for all has been met with a new respect from students and parents.

I still flinch when someone knocks over a chair at school though - the sound it makes gives me a PTSD flashback to the flying chairs scenario of the past. I notice 2 of the students who witnessed the violence also jump when they hear that same sound.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:42 PM   #44
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I'm curious. Is the boy in a special needs class or is he in a regular room with normal students?
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:15 PM   #45
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I am happy to report that the charges were dismissed by the court. My son cannot speak well and has such a low IQ they deemed him unfit to stand trial. I am soooo relieved. I do not thinnk it is acceptable to be violent but having him arrested tought him nothing and accomplished nothing.

He is in a new school this year in a new special ed room. So fingers crossed!
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