Would DVC make sense for us?

[Missyrose]

Originally Posted by BestDadEver

Here we go , my number one hater . I will no longer be responding to you .

Despite your best efforts to make it so, what I posted was not a personal dig at you. I've said on other threads that I respect the fact that you have opinions that can sometimes differ from my own or others' opinions.

But the bottom line is that I came to these DVC boards more than a year ago and for the first four or five months I only read and didn't post at all. I wanted to soak up as much information from the DVC members who knew the system best. People like Dean, Doc, Sandi, Deb and Bill have so much more experience in this area than many of us and I appreciate their willingness to share their knowledge. It was from them that I learned to not make a decision about buying DVC because of perks that Disney is currently offering and to base my decision solely on using DVC points at DVC resorts.

So even though you want to make this personal, my only concern when I respond to threads such as this is to impart some of the wisdom I've gained from the knowledgeable people on these boards.

[Deb & Bill]

Originally Posted by crisi

I, personally, was really affected by the stories in 2009 and 2010 of people selling DVC at a loss, people going into bankruptcy and trying to hang onto DVC, people who lost jobs and homes. I felt a tiny bit responsible for that, I've never been a "best thing ever" poster, but like a lot of people, I can make the numbers work in favor of DVC and have over the years - especially pre-2008 when resale prices continued to climb and "historically, its held or increased its value." Its been a good VALUE for me, even if I'm not the head cheerleader, and I've said that many times. But I've always been in a strange place regarding DVC - we are pretty well off and fairly frugal, the day I bought, we could have walked away and it wouldn't have been a big deal - I would have fretted because I'm frugal, but it really wouldn't have made a difference in the kid's college funds or our retirement, or our ability to pay our mortgage.

2009 convinced me that people trying to make DVC work for FINANCIAL reasons is likely going into it for the wrong reasons....its a red flag word for me now that says "I probably need this to pan out financially." DVC can be a great value, but if you need to get your money out of it (i.e. the "investment" flag word), then, no, it doesn't make sense because there is too much risk. Even if you are disciplined. Airfare costs go up. Park ticket costs go up. People get ill, divorced, lose jobs. Factor those sorts of external to DVC events in and then decide if you can take the risk. Could you throw $10k (or whatever) at a contract and afford to just walk away $10k poorer? That isn't likely to happen, but I think that is the real question with a luxury purchase.

The valet parking thing, or additional restrictions on pool hopping, or real dishware disappearing from studios, cruising not being even available when you want to go...those are minor annoyances. DVC contributing to someone's bankruptcy, THAT I get emotional about.

We bought in 1997 and got our initial points direct from Disney for about $50 a point. We bought additional contracts after that (one resale and three direct) for not much more. I was a big cheerleader for DVC until about 2006 when Jim Lewis came in and changed the look of DVC. It was a nice little "club" until then. We sold two contracts and made more than we originially paid. That is never going to happen again. So when you buy, you need to plan ahead of time that you are not going to regain your entire purchase price when you sell. Even if we sold our remaining three contracts, we wouldn't get what we paid for them.

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it, but you need to plan ahead of time with DVC. You can't plan on booking a stay, especially in April, Oct, Nov, Dec, early Jan only a month or two out. Studios, GV and two bedroom villas go first. One bedrooms usually go last because you can almost have as many guests in a one bedroom that you put in a studio and the one bedroom requires twice as many points as the studio.

Perks come and go. Dues continue to go up. That's why we sold two of our contracts. Some of the members here talk about "add-on-itis" as if it is cute thing. It just raises the amount of money you ultimately send to Disney. They talk about how many family and friends they plan to share the "magic" with. When those friends and family leave you hanging when they cancel at the last minute, your attitude changes. We've been very lucky with who we bring along as no one has cancelled on us.

Wash the pixie dust out of your eyes and look at DVC for what it really is - prepaid vacations, that aren't really fully prepaid. And if you don't plan to use those points for DVC, there are a lot cheaper ways to see the world. Guides are nothing more than timeshare salespeople. They are not your best friend. They want your money.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by Deb & Bill

We bought in 1997 and got our initial points direct from Disney for about $50 a point. We bought additional contracts after that (one resale and three direct) for not much more. I was a big cheerleader for DVC until about 2006 when Jim Lewis came in and changed the look of DVC. It was a nice little "club" until then. We sold two contracts and made more than we originially paid. That is never going to happen again. So when you buy, you need to plan ahead of time that you are not going to regain your entire purchase price when you sell. Even if we sold our remaining three contracts, we wouldn't get what we paid for them.

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it, but you need to plan ahead of time with DVC. You can't plan on booking a stay, especially in April, Oct, Nov, Dec, early Jan only a month or two out. Studios, GV and two bedroom villas go first. One bedrooms usually go last because you can almost have as many guests in a one bedroom that you put in a studio and the one bedroom requires twice as many points as the studio.

Perks come and go. Dues continue to go up. That's why we sold two of our contracts. Some of the members here talk about "add-on-itis" as if it is cute thing. It just raises the amount of money you ultimately send to Disney. They talk about how many family and friends they plan to share the "magic" with. When those friends and family leave you hanging when they cancel at the last minute, your attitude changes. We've been very lucky with who we bring along as no one has cancelled on us.

Wash the pixie dust out of your eyes and look at DVC for what it really is - prepaid vacations, that aren't really fully prepaid. And if you don't plan to use those points for DVC, there are a lot cheaper ways to see the world. Guides are nothing more than timeshare salespeople. They are not your best friend. They want your money.

I think the price by then was somewhere in the mid to upper $60's by 97, I know there's a points price history around here somewhere but know it was at least $64 or more. IMO, the small club option evaporated somewhere around the time when new purchases at OKW no longer received free passes, which was around the time you joined. When there were no longer colored towels, cloth napkins and a separate check in desk. I think JL gets far too much blame for some of these issues, I believe size is the driving force for most of these changes. By the time OKW and BWV were nearing sell out, I think the club you describe was essentially already gone. In reality it's always just been a very nice timeshare in a place many of us like to go, nothing more.

As for my opinion of why these type of posts get so much negative response centers around 2 factors. One, that is represents a lack of understanding of what DVC is and how it works and secondly, that it often represents an entitlement mentality. Here's my position on this subject simply stated. I have no problem with a brand new owner or someone investigating DVC asking the question, if you don't know, you don't know and you need to know. It's when people complain about it or when it's someone that's owned or investigated enough that they should understand the system that it crosses over my line.

[WebmasterDoc]

Originally Posted by Dean

I think the price by then was somewhere in the mid to upper $60's by 97, I know there's a points price history around here somewhere but know it was at least $64 or more. ...

The DVC Resource Center has a link near the top of each of the DVC Forums. The chronological history of DVC may be found in post #5 of the Resource Center.

BWV opened in summer 1996 and was selling at $62.75 (with a minimum purchase of 150 points) thru 1997 before going up to $65 early in 1999. BWV sales opened at $62.75. We paid $56 for our 230 point OKW purchase in June, 1993.

I agree completely with Dean's assessment regarding the reasons for the perceived negativity behind this thopic (and a few others). I feel it is in the best of every purchaser to ubderstand how the DVC program works - what DVC members are guaranteed, how reservations, banking,borrowing all work and what perks are available at the time they purchase. Not as obvious is the fact that many components of the DVC program may be modified or eliminated without input from members and that when questions are asked of DVC Guides, their responses may be truthful but no complete. Questions like:"Can the points be changed?", "Will I be able to reserve non-Home Resorts at 7 months?" and "What perks come with my membership?" can all be easily answered truthfully with a few words without providing a long explanation with a complete answer.

Many are surprised when the long explanation is provided - especially when it differs from their original understanding. The apparent emphasis made about the stability of perks and ease of reservations within 7 months in most cases comes from years of seeing posters here gnashing their teeth when DVC has made changes to point charts, perks, borrowing policies, contact extensions, etc. over the years. When the DIS was founded in 1997, DVC had made one reallocation for OKW point charts in 1996. The next one didn't happen until 2010 (announced in early 2009) and was a source for lots of confusion and misunderstanding from those who knew their guides had told them that "points cannot be changed". Thus, when some of topics come up, many are adamant about trying to provide a complete view of the issue. When free valet service was removed as a perk, we had similar angst from many (and these same issues are still painful for many posters to understand).

Please remember that emotion and passion is difficult to "see" in the printed word on the internet and many well-meaning responses can be misinterpreted or misunderstood as something not at all intended.

[sazzifrazz]

I'm thinking the idea of renting points for about $9 or $10 each is awesome for us at this point. No large chunk if money needed yet still reap the benefits of being able to afford the nicer room at the nicer resort. Win win for our situation. If we find that we love it could see ourselves doing it a few times a year then we can look into buying our own.

[DizBub]

Originally Posted by sazzifrazz

I'm thinking the idea of renting points for about $9 or $10 each is awesome for us at this point. No large chunk if money needed yet still reap the benefits of being able to afford the nicer room at the nicer resort. Win win for our situation. If we find that we love it could see ourselves doing it a few times a year then we can look into buying our own.

Good idea. So glad we didn't scare you off entirely.

[cz4ever]

Originally Posted by JaimeA

I just bought DVC not to save money but to have better accommodations for around the same value. I know that sounds weird.

Actually, that sounds eminently reasonable.

[Deb & Bill]

The reason we got our points for about $50 a point was because we got to use our stay at the Polynesian towards our purchase. Brought the price down to $50 a point and that is what is on our contract.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by Deb & Bill

The reason we got our points for about $50 a point was because we got to use our stay at the Polynesian towards our purchase. Brought the price down to $50 a point and that is what is on our contract.

Didn't you have to give up points for that discount? That would change the numbers somewhat.

[Deb & Bill]

Originally Posted by Dean

Didn't you have to give up points for that discount? That would change the numbers somewhat.

I don't think we did.

[WebmasterDoc]

The "Magical Beginnings" program did allow those staying onsite to transfer the cost of their onsite Disney accommodations at the time of purchase towards their DVC purchase up to a certain limit, but they had to give up some of their first Use Year's points to do so based on the number of nights of their stay. That program was later amended to allow new purchasers to "buy back" their first year's points at $10 per point and apply that towards their purchase.

It was an early purchase incentive offered once the free park pass program had ended. If you applied the current stay or the $10 buy-back, points from the current Use Year were taken in exchange for the cost reduction.

[JimMIA]

Originally Posted by BestDadEver

Everyone sems to focus on the negitive around here.

There are two ways to interpret a statement like this -- one, that people are negative toward DVC, and the other is that people are negative toward you personally...which you obviously believe is true.

This forum tends to be believers preaching to the choir, so I don't think folks are anti-DVC. If anything, we're a little too pro-DVC to be objective.

However, there are downsides to DVC, and there are also often wide gaps between posters understanding/expectations of DVC and reality. To try to clear those up is not negativity -- it's honesty and accuracy.

As far as you personally are concerned, I don't see any "haters" here. I just see some instances where people have corrected some inaccuracies. "Pobody's Nerfect" and we all make mistakes or have incomplete information from time to time. Don't take that personal, because nobody means it that way. I've posted some incorrect info (not once, but many times) and some of my best "friends" here are usually the ones to set me straight.

People who correct misstatements are just trying to ensure that readers don't buy DVC for the wrong reasons -- like "free parking at the theme parks," which is NOT a perk of DVC.

[JimMIA]

Originally Posted by Missyrose

...my only concern when I respond to threads such as this is to impart some of the wisdom I've gained from the knowledgeable people on these boards.

I think that's why most people post here, but there is another important component to being a member of the DIS DVC boards (and other DIS boards).

You can't just sit back idly and watch misinformation go unchallenged. All of us who post here have a responsibility to at least get our FACTS right. We may disagree on the meaning of the facts, the value of various things, etc, etc.

But when there are clear factual misstatements, we owe it to all readers to try to correct those. Misstatements are never malicious, but they can hurt innocent readers. Many many readers -- especially newbies -- do what you did when you first joined. They don't post, they just read and digest. And often, they make decisions based at least partly on what they have read here -- big decisions, lots of bucks.

We owe it to those DIS members (and lurkers) to make sure what they are digesting is accurate.

[DougEMG]

Originally Posted by sazzifrazz

Bestdad-thank you for posting CURRENT perks and explaining that those are not a promise.

Thanks for all of your insight. It seems this board is a bit split about DVC or not. At this point so am I!!

DVC is great if you want to stay on site in a deluxe accomodations and can plan ahead. If you are happy in moderates with discounts and book mostly on short notice, DVC isn't going to be that good a fit for you.

Take your initial purchase cost, divide that by the number of years left in your contract. This will probably be around $2/point. Compare that to your annual MF and you'll see right away that MF are a much much larger component of your total DVC costs than your initial buy in costs. Plan for MF to increase anywhere from 3-6% a year.


Perks can come and go, don't buy because of them, but some of them are great. I just picked up 3 annual passes and saved just about $150 on each one.

Me, I love DVC. There is no way I'd ever pay the cash rate to stay at BWV, but I've got it booked for my next 2 trips

[BestDadEver]

Originally Posted by JimMIA

There are two ways to interpret a statement like this -- one, that people are negative toward DVC, and the other is that people are negative toward you personally...which you obviously believe is true.

This forum tends to be believers preaching to the choir, so I don't think folks are anti-DVC. If anything, we're a little too pro-DVC to be objective.

However, there are downsides to DVC, and there are also often wide gaps between posters understanding/expectations of DVC and reality. To try to clear those up is not negativity -- it's honesty and accuracy.

As far as you personally are concerned, I don't see any "haters" here. I just see some instances where people have corrected some inaccuracies. "Pobody's Nerfect" and we all make mistakes or have incomplete information from time to time. Don't take that personal, because nobody means it that way. I've posted some incorrect info (not once, but many times) and some of my best "friends" here are usually the ones to set me straight.

People who correct misstatements are just trying to ensure that readers don't buy DVC for the wrong reasons -- like "free parking at the theme parks," which is NOT a perk of DVC.

With that past I did mean negitive towrds dvc . Because majority of posters here seem to only point out . The negitives , so much that I wonder why they bought in the first place .

I dont mind people correcting miss information . That is fine, the problem I have is when people dont agree with my opinions (not facts) it seems I get flamed . This thread is not an example of this .

Example using points outside of dvc resorts is not a good use of points . I dont agree with that . Numerous times have had to make multiple posts to defend my opinion . Even though it's very subjective because of diffrences in how they calculate the value . Therfore it's bit a fact .