DVC RESALES
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Old 07-18-2012, 01:19 PM   #16
DougEMG
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Originally Posted by ELMC View Post
Ok, I see what you're saying. Well, if you have a Dec UY, when you get your final set of points, don't they have to allow you your full use year? So if the contract expires in 2042 and you have a Dec UY, aren't they contractually obligated to give you until Nov 2043 to use your points? Then you won't have the issue where you are trying to squeeze all of the Dec UY people in one month.
Good question, but I'm betting that those with Dec UY (I've a lot of points in DEC) will have just the 1 month to use them up, at least that was my assumption when I bought. Certainly not something I'm going to worry about now and certainly didn't have any impact on my purchasing decision.

Now in 20 years time if I was a resale purchaser and a resort only had 9 or 10 years left I'd want to know exactly how that last year was going to work.

Worst case if they do something screwy and I can't book in that last year I'll just not pay them the MF for that last year and they can foreclose on me
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Old 07-18-2012, 01:58 PM   #17
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Ok, I see what you're saying. Well, if you have a Dec UY, when you get your final set of points, don't they have to allow you your full use year? So if the contract expires in 2042 and you have a Dec UY, aren't they contractually obligated to give you until Nov 2043 to use your points? Then you won't have the issue where you are trying to squeeze all of the Dec UY people in one month.
No they don't, the contract still has a fixed ending date. They will have to find a way to decrease the number of points used those last 2-3 years. Likely choices include one or more of the following:
  • Eliminate banking
  • Eliminate borrowing
  • Eliminate transfers
  • Allow people to opt out (both fees and usage)
  • A lottery to see who can reserve (likely without having to pay the fees on unused points
  • A free for all, loser is just out of luck.
  • Stop usage of developer owned points
  • There are a couple of additional variations related to club usage at other resorts.
My guess guess is they will stop banking about 3 years out, not stop borrowing and then implement some type of strategy that will set up some members to use their points and some not (either by choice or forced) and not pay fees on unused points. They could allow usage in non home resort resorts to finish out the points but I doubt they will, at least for those members who will cease to be members.
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Old 07-18-2012, 04:41 PM   #18
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I bet they haven't figured out what they are going to do and the lack of up take on the OKW extension probably confused them even more.
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Old 07-18-2012, 06:01 PM   #19
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My guess guess is they will stop banking about 3 years out, not stop borrowing and then implement some type of strategy that will set up some members to use their points and some not (either by choice or forced) and not pay fees on unused points.
I'm going to start by saying that I typically defer to you on all things timeshare based on the experience that you have. But I have to say that I can't see a way that DVD can legally prohibit people from using their points. The contract provides for an allotment of points every year. In my mind, to remove the ability to use them violates the contract.

That being said, if maintenance fees continue on their current trajectory, I don't doubt that people would accept the opportunity to not pay said fees. But like Doug said, there may come a point in time where it might be easier (and cheaper) to just not pay the fees and let Disney foreclose on the contract.
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:50 AM   #20
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I'm going to start by saying that I typically defer to you on all things timeshare based on the experience that you have. But I have to say that I can't see a way that DVD can legally prohibit people from using their points. The contract provides for an allotment of points every year. In my mind, to remove the ability to use them violates the contract.

That being said, if maintenance fees continue on their current trajectory, I don't doubt that people would accept the opportunity to not pay said fees. But like Doug said, there may come a point in time where it might be easier (and cheaper) to just not pay the fees and let Disney foreclose on the contract.
DVC doesn't guarantee the use of points, only the potential use. Points are merely representative of an ownership. Plus there are measures for lotteries and special season lists that could cover this issue. Regardless there is simply not enough time for all to use their points the last 1-2 years. That's factual, the only question is HOW they limit who gets to use it. As for experience in timeshares, there really isn't much to cover this issue. The only system that comes to mind is the Royal resorts in MX and the situation is so different as to not apply. The easiest out is to allow members to opt out of usage and fees and hope they get enough participation, along with not booking the company owned points, that it doesn't matter. There is a chance they could kick the can down the road with extensions but it doesn't change the principles.
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Old 07-19-2012, 02:42 AM   #21
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Never really gave it much thought as to what happens when the contract ends.....(thats not part of the sales pitch now is it)

But anyway, we own at BLT and I will be 94 when the contract ends,

My daughters will be 69 and 64 and my granddaughters will be 50 and 51....

So I guess we will have gotten our money's worth.
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Old 07-19-2012, 08:33 AM   #22
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The only thing that is certain for 2041 is that Disney will still have computer systems that work correctly only half the time.

As for Disney being required to allow you to use your last year's points, there is no such requirement. The official documents provide that the entire DVC world at the resort ends January 31, 2042 and also provides that there is no guarantee you can actually get a reservation when trying to reserve because the reservation system operates on a first come, first serve basis and if you cannot get a reservation and lose points as a result, there is no recourse. Absent an extension, the night of January 30, 2042, will be the last possible night any DVC member can stay at the resort on points.

The probability is that at some point Disney will offer an extension. That assumes when the decision is made that Disney World is still up and running and successful and that selling timeshares is still thought to be profitable. Disney has to eventually come up with a plan as to what to do because from a business perspective you don't want a hotel that is usually quite full mostly with DVC members suddenly becoming empty except for a small number of cash guests unless you intend to tear it down. The longer Disney waits to offer an extension, the more expensive it is going to be to purchase and you could even see it being first offered in the latter part of the 2030s as another 50 year contract at new purchaser price.
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Old 07-20-2012, 03:40 PM   #23
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hmmm.. I will be 84 when my contract ends at SSR (2054). maybe can use the extra money i won't be spending at Disney on a nice set of dentures
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Old 07-20-2012, 04:13 PM   #24
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DVC doesn't guarantee the use of points, only the potential use. Points are merely representative of an ownership. Plus there are measures for lotteries and special season lists that could cover this issue. Regardless there is simply not enough time for all to use their points the last 1-2 years. That's factual, the only question is HOW they limit who gets to use it. As for experience in timeshares, there really isn't much to cover this issue. The only system that comes to mind is the Royal resorts in MX and the situation is so different as to not apply. The easiest out is to allow members to opt out of usage and fees and hope they get enough participation, along with not booking the company owned points, that it doesn't matter. There is a chance they could kick the can down the road with extensions but it doesn't change the principles.
I wouldn't mind it if DVC's solution was to allow additional year borrowing. For instance, four to five years out from the end of the contract allow members to borrow several years ahead thereby using all of their points in one last, large, hooray trip. If they did this there would not be such a back log of members 'out of luck' and the Disney 'magic' would make members happy (and thereby perhaps willing to embark on whatever venture Disney comes up with next). This would help 'end' contracts earlier. The only 'catch' would be of course the MF's so perhaps this offer could be given to those who are able to pay their dues in one last large sum.

I am not 'banking' on this happening. 45 years from now I will be 88 years old. I am going to imagine that by that time my points will be more used by my grown children and their future children and whether they get use from this timeshare will be a bonus not a requirement.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:24 PM   #25
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I wouldn't mind it if DVC's solution was to allow additional year borrowing. For instance, four to five years out from the end of the contract allow members to borrow several years ahead thereby using all of their points in one last, large, hooray trip. If they did this there would not be such a back log of members 'out of luck' and the Disney 'magic' would make members happy (and thereby perhaps willing to embark on whatever venture Disney comes up with next). This would help 'end' contracts earlier. The only 'catch' would be of course the MF's so perhaps this offer could be given to those who are able to pay their dues in one last large sum.

I am not 'banking' on this happening. 45 years from now I will be 88 years old. I am going to imagine that by that time my points will be more used by my grown children and their future children and whether they get use from this timeshare will be a bonus not a requirement.
I'm certain they will not allow additional borrowing, they may stop borrowing the last couple of years as well.
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