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Old 06-08-2012, 11:42 AM   #61
Rose&Mike
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LisaH--cadence, the way I understand it, is measured in foot strikes per minute and includes both feet. I count one foot and multiply by 2. The best way, again to my understanding, to improve cadence is to lean forward just a bit so that your feet are landing under you not in front. Interestingly, even if you run faster, you in theory keep the same cadence--I don't quite understand that, but Mike attempted to explain it to me last night. Your stride does get a little longer, but your feet are still landing underneath you. As, I said that part is still confusing me a little.

I have been trying to work on this for a while but it is hard with regular shoes. Here's why:
http://www.newtonrunning.com/run-bet...ing-efficiency

In the Newton's if you reach out, you heel strike and you automatically know it. It feels really funny. Interestingly, though when you walk in them you walk normal. Which again feels funny cause you are heel striking when walking, but it is not with the same force that is cause by running. My walking pace so far, has been much slower in the Newtons, so that is something I need to work on. My running pace is a little slower, but some of that is cause I just don't quite feel like I know what I am doing yet.
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:12 PM   #62
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Does anyone else think it is a little ironic that National Running Day is followed by National Chocolate Ice Cream Day?!?
LOL that's funny!!


HAPPY BIRTHDAY MARIA!!!!!!

Rose my default pace is waaayyy slower but I force myself to run faster. I hope it becomes more natural.
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:12 PM   #63
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Got 3 more miles in today. My pace was still 15+. I was tired after!! And slightly dizzy and got a headache. I think I need to work on my breathing.
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:32 PM   #64
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Buffy--Interestingly, you can have a high cadence and still run slowly. You are just taking shorter steps. We ran a local half in April, and this one guy, who is taller and bigger than Mike and much slower than both of us finished the day with thousands more steps (everyone from his work wears pedometers for health miles). He takes very short steps.

Mike said the way he understands it (and someone please correct me here) is that with the shorter steps your feet are spending less time on the ground and absorbing less impact. I spent some time talking about all this with a trainer at the Y today, and it really is interesting.

It is all still confusing to me, but basically cadence (or foot strikes per minute) and pace are not the same thing.

And also Buffy, could you be dehydrated? That can definitely cause headaches/dizziness/fatigue. If it persists you might mention it to your doctor.
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:40 PM   #65
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I take really short steps because my legs are so darn short. I try to lengthen my stride when I walk but that didn't seem to help my pace any today. Maybe I was just tired.

I don't think I was dehydrated, I had 3 bottles of water that day before we even ran, so 48 oz of water. And I've been keeping up my 64 oz per day for like 3 - 4 weeks now.
One thing I know I do is drop my head and look at the ground and I keep hiking my shoulders up. I have to remind myself to look forward and roll my shoulders and shake out my arms. I wonder if that has to do with anything. I don't think my breathing is right at all. I'm trying to learn how to slow it down and control it instead of sucking air.

On the up side. I can really feel my abs getting stronger! They are sooo sore when I get up the next day. I have also started tightening my core like you do in pilates when I'm driving. I'm trying to get those muscles back in shape after having all these kids!
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Old 06-09-2012, 07:59 AM   #66
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I know zero about cadence...

I just wanted to say a huge for all the awesome birthday wishes! I had a wonderful totally OOP day, and it was great! Now I don't have another "treat dangerous situation" until August, if I am strict and rational. Who wouldn't want to be strict and rational?

After yesterday's excesses (and trust me, there were many), I feel like I'm just going to focus on housecleaning and rather than do my 9M. My heart is not in it and my body feels sluggish. Next Saturday I am getting back to 10, so I think it's ok to get my movement in a less intensive fashion today. Also, I can't go far since my dh is in NH this morning running a 10K, and I don't want to be 5M away on foot and find out ds has an issue. He never does, but with my ... Also can't bring myself to get on the TM. See, I am just full of excuses!

Oh, and Alice! Hope it is wonderful and fun!

Maria
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Old 06-09-2012, 11:13 AM   #67
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Happy birthday, Alice!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose&Mike View Post
LisaH--cadence, the way I understand it, is measured in foot strikes per minute and includes both feet. I count one foot and multiply by 2. The best way, again to my understanding, to improve cadence is to lean forward just a bit so that your feet are landing under you not in front. Interestingly, even if you run faster, you in theory keep the same cadence--I don't quite understand that, but Mike attempted to explain it to me last night. Your stride does get a little longer, but your feet are still landing underneath you. As, I said that part is still confusing me a little.

I have been trying to work on this for a while but it is hard with regular shoes. Here's why:
http://www.newtonrunning.com/run-bet...ing-efficiency

In the Newton's if you reach out, you heel strike and you automatically know it. It feels really funny. Interestingly, though when you walk in them you walk normal. Which again feels funny cause you are heel striking when walking, but it is not with the same force that is cause by running. My walking pace so far, has been much slower in the Newtons, so that is something I need to work on. My running pace is a little slower, but some of that is cause I just don't quite feel like I know what I am doing yet.
Who knew natural running would take so much thinking?

Rose, I know that your slower pace is still WAY faster than my fast pace.

It looks like you are shooting for 3 steps a second.

I'm going to have to get out my books and review cadence. Galloway says it helps your efficiency and helps your pace. Here is a link to the Galloway video on cadence drills from RunDisney http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0pb3JDD2WA

There are several great Galloway videos on the RunDisney site if anyone is interested. Just be warned a couple of the links are messed up so you may have to use YouTube to get to the whole series.

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Originally Posted by BernardandMissBianca View Post
I take really short steps because my legs are so darn short. I try to lengthen my stride when I walk but that didn't seem to help my pace any today. Maybe I was just tired.

On the up side. I can really feel my abs getting stronger! They are sooo sore when I get up the next day. I have also started tightening my core like you do in pilates when I'm driving. I'm trying to get those muscles back in shape after having all these kids!
It is supposed to be good to keep your stride shorter so you're already there, Buffy!

A strong core is a great help in running, Buffy! I've been working on mine since I hurt my back. Maybe slowing down a tad will help you to relax.

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Originally Posted by Worfiedoodles View Post
I know zero about cadence...

I just wanted to say a huge for all the awesome birthday wishes! I had a wonderful totally OOP day, and it was great! Now I don't have another "treat dangerous situation" until August, if I am strict and rational. Who wouldn't want to be strict and rational?

After yesterday's excesses (and trust me, there were many), I feel like I'm just going to focus on housecleaning and rather than do my 9M. My heart is not in it and my body feels sluggish. Next Saturday I am getting back to 10, so I think it's ok to get my movement in a less intensive fashion today. Also, I can't go far since my dh is in NH this morning running a 10K, and I don't want to be 5M away on foot and find out ds has an issue. He never does, but with my ... Also can't bring myself to get on the TM. See, I am just full of excuses!

Oh, and Alice! Hope it is wonderful and fun!

Maria
Glad that you had a great day yesterday, Maria!

I'm not feeling the running thing this week-end either and put my run off until Monday. It's cold, wet and rainy and I feel the need to hibernate.

Rose, could you please add my name to the Donald list? I just made my OKW reservations this morning!

And bought myself a cute blue sparkleskirt for the W&D.
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:03 PM   #68
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Happy Birthday Alice!!!!

Thanks for sharing the links Lisa. I added you to Donald. I don't know how I missed it earlier. I have to think about what I want to wear to W&D. I told JenB last year that I was determined to have abs good enough to run in a jog bra this year. There is a lot of that at W&D--or at least there was in September. Not sure that I will be ready (or that the world is ready for that lol), but definitely want to find something cute. I need to look at the sparkle skirt web site.

The whole thing I am finding with the new shoes is that I "feel" slow. It's mostly in my head at this point, cause I am having to think so much. Hopefully by the end of June I will be feeling more confident. My calves are not as sore today, so that is exciting.

Glad you had a good birthday Maria.

Congrats on your race today Dottie!

Buffy--I asked Mike what he thought about the hunched shoulder stuff and if he thought it could be causing issues, and he said he thought yes (not that he is an expert, but he reads A LOT about running). He said the same thing that you did--work on the core stuff. And said right away it is hard to take a deep breath with hunched shoulders. This is before I even said you were thinking it was a breathing thing. So, it sounds like you are on the right track to fixing things. I hunch my shoulders too, and I have found forcing myself to keep my hands below my hips helps. That and having Mike beside nagging me--relax your shoulders, relax your shoulders.

***
Anybody else racing this weekend??? Can't remember?

Our long run is tomorrow. Still on the fence about wearing the new shoes. My calves are feeling much improved today (still sore but much better) so I am on the fence. We will go between 6 and 8.

I signed us up for the Bluegrass 10k on July 4th. So that is exciting.

Have a great Saturday!
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:06 PM   #69
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY ALICE!!!!!!!!

I hope you have a great day!
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Old 06-09-2012, 03:03 PM   #70
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Thanks for the birthday wishes! Maria - sounds like you had a fun day.

To celebrate my big 50 today I did the Tacoma Sound-to-Narrows 5k; next year I hope to try the 12k. I had a pretty good race. I ran most of it, even with this sore leg and most of the last mile uphill, so I'm feeling pretty good about it. And there was no rain!

Going to the gym later to sit in the hot tub and the sauna...ahhhhh. Then grilling steak dinner with the family.
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Old 06-10-2012, 10:45 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose&Mike View Post
Happy Birthday Alice!!!!

Thanks for sharing the links Lisa. I added you to Donald. I don't know how I missed it earlier. I have to think about what I want to wear to W&D. I told JenB last year that I was determined to have abs good enough to run in a jog bra this year. There is a lot of that at W&D--or at least there was in September. Not sure that I will be ready (or that the world is ready for that lol), but definitely want to find something cute. I need to look at the sparkle skirt web site.
You have the figure to do a jog bra, Rose.

I'm almost afraid to run in anything besides my WISH shirt but I figure no one will be able to read it in the dark and I know I will be sporting my WISH green at the Donald.

Hope your long run goes well today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiki23 View Post
Thanks for the birthday wishes! Maria - sounds like you had a fun day.

To celebrate my big 50 today I did the Tacoma Sound-to-Narrows 5k; next year I hope to try the 12k. I had a pretty good race. I ran most of it, even with this sore leg and most of the last mile uphill, so I'm feeling pretty good about it. And there was no rain!

Going to the gym later to sit in the hot tub and the sauna...ahhhhh. Then grilling steak dinner with the family.
Sounds like a great birthday, Alice!

That looked like a fun race! Hope you stayed dry! I see there is a half in August where you run across the Tacoma Narrows Bridge. I may have to try one of those races some day as my Mom lives in Gig Harbor in the summer months.
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:55 AM   #72
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Good Morning! As promised:

Question of the Week:

A. If you are still lurking and haven't introduced yourself (or you are just new) please do. On the first page there are some questions to make it easy.

B. It looks like a lot of people have goals for this year or races they would like to complete. As runners (mostly women in this group) I think we hear a lot of "CAN'TS". For instance, we have a friend who is in her 20s and can run a half in under 1:50. She developed itbs this spring and the doctor she went to told her women are not designed to run and she should find a new sport. What "Can't" or "No" messages are you hearing or are you telling yourself that could be a roadblock to your training?

*****
Lisah--I am going to have to sport something Carolina for W&D. It's the day of the Carolina/Florida football game. I hope it's an early game otherwise Mike is going to be needing someone to text him score updates. I stll have too much belly to run in a jog bra. It's where I carry all my extra weight and I'm sure at least some of those are mom of a 20something stress pounds.

I had a good 6 mile run this morning in the new shoes, and my calves feel pretty good. I put my inserts in this time, just to be safe. I went ahead and taped my ankle afterwards just in case--it feels a little twingey.

QOTD--So my can't right now is in my head. I am terrified of the idea of running the full. I am really afraid of a new injury that will send me back to PT. I am hoping with time and more miles that I will start to worry a little less. I am trying to break the idea of the full down into smaller increments to make it seem less daunting. So for instance, this morning with my walk at the end I did over 25% of a full. And I could have walked further if I wanted to.

My external can't comes from this whole idea that unless you are running 8mm you are a "jogger." I know lots of people on the WISH boards strongly disagree with this, and I strongly disagree, but I have heard it mentioned one too many times and it just makes me feel inadequate sometimes. This I realize is very silly and just a way to allow myself to think I "can't" do something. Does that make sense? But I think we hear a lot of negative messages. The guy who sold us our shoes at first showed us the trainers for casual runners.....not even sure what that means or who needs a casual runner shoe. When we told him we were training for a full he took us seriously and got down to business. I guess the big thing is I still just feel a little insecure about this whole "I am a runner" thing. So my biggest "can't" sometimes, still remains me.
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:12 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Rose&Mike View Post
Good Morning! As promised:

Question of the Week:

A. If you are still lurking and haven't introduced yourself (or you are just new) please do. On the first page there are some questions to make it easy.

B. It looks like a lot of people have goals for this year or races they would like to complete. As runners (mostly women in this group) I think we hear a lot of "CAN'TS". For instance, we have a friend who is in her 20s and can run a half in under 1:50. She developed itbs this spring and the doctor she went to told her women are not designed to run and she should find a new sport. What "Can't" or "No" messages are you hearing or are you telling yourself that could be a roadblock to your training?

*****
Lisah--I am going to have to sport something Carolina for W&D. It's the day of the Carolina/Florida football game. I hope it's an early game otherwise Mike is going to be needing someone to text him score updates. I stll have too much belly to run in a jog bra. It's where I carry all my extra weight and I'm sure at least some of those are mom of a 20something stress pounds.

I had a good 6 mile run this morning in the new shoes, and my calves feel pretty good. I put my inserts in this time, just to be safe. I went ahead and taped my ankle afterwards just in case--it feels a little twingey.

QOTD--So my can't right now is in my head. I am terrified of the idea of running the full. I am really afraid of a new injury that will send me back to PT. I am hoping with time and more miles that I will start to worry a little less. I am trying to break the idea of the full down into smaller increments to make it seem less daunting. So for instance, this morning with my walk at the end I did over 25% of a full. And I could have walked further if I wanted to.

My external can't comes from this whole idea that unless you are running 8mm you are a "jogger." I know lots of people on the WISH boards strongly disagree with this, and I strongly disagree, but I have heard it mentioned one too many times and it just makes me feel inadequate sometimes. This I realize is very silly and just a way to allow myself to think I "can't" do something. Does that make sense? But I think we hear a lot of negative messages. The guy who sold us our shoes at first showed us the trainers for casual runners.....not even sure what that means or who needs a casual runner shoe. When we told him we were training for a full he took us seriously and got down to business. I guess the big thing is I still just feel a little insecure about this whole "I am a runner" thing. So my biggest "can't" sometimes, still remains me.
Rose, I hear ya- my boss actually told me - Don't you think you are to old to be trying to run- least he didn't call me fat too. My biggest- can't right now is getting below 145lb- no matter what I do more excercise, watching my eating, I just can't seem to break that barrier- also I feel like I've bitten off more than I can chew with this marathon -13.1 always seemed doable but doubling it-who am I kidding- 15 miles is the furthest I've ever run and that was the week before I hurt my foot just doing an easy 6. I keep thinking well if I'm not to point X in my training then I'll never be ready for the marathon- that I should just switch now to Donald.
I feel like I am never gonna get to where I was before my issues yet I proved in Saturday's race that I have improved since my1st race. Sometimes that little voice in our heads just need to shut up.

If your wearing something to support Carolina then I may have to sport some Orange & Blue at W/D Also I will be running the Freedom Run 4 miler on July 4 as my next race.
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Old 06-11-2012, 10:04 AM   #74
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Happy late Birthday, Alice!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose&Mike View Post
Good Morning! As promised:

Question of the Week:

A. If you are still lurking and haven't introduced yourself (or you are just new) please do. On the first page there are some questions to make it easy.

B. It looks like a lot of people have goals for this year or races they would like to complete. As runners (mostly women in this group) I think we hear a lot of "CAN'TS". For instance, we have a friend who is in her 20s and can run a half in under 1:50. She developed itbs this spring and the doctor she went to told her women are not designed to run and she should find a new sport. What "Can't" or "No" messages are you hearing or are you telling yourself that could be a roadblock to your training?

My external can't comes from this whole idea that unless you are running 8mm you are a "jogger." I know lots of people on the WISH boards strongly disagree with this, and I strongly disagree, but I have heard it mentioned one too many times and it just makes me feel inadequate sometimes. This I realize is very silly and just a way to allow myself to think I "can't" do something. Does that make sense? But I think we hear a lot of negative messages. The guy who sold us our shoes at first showed us the trainers for casual runners.....not even sure what that means or who needs a casual runner shoe. When we told him we were training for a full he took us seriously and got down to business. I guess the big thing is I still just feel a little insecure about this whole "I am a runner" thing. So my biggest "can't" sometimes, still remains me.
My can't usually only comes from me when I have self-doubt. However, after I finished my first half a few weeks ago I've kind of put those thoughts to rest. I am not signed up for any races at the moment but I want to start training for a full marathon within the next year or so.

I did, however, have someone I know tell me that I probably wouldn't finish the half marathon and that most of the people there run daily and have done it before. Needless to say, I kicked butt and finished with 40 minutes left.

I totally get what you're saying about being called a jogger. I am fairly slow, but I still consider myself a runner. I think as long as you're moving faster than a walking speed, you're a runner! It does put me down and ticks me off a little when someone says if you can't run so and so speed, you aren't a runner. Who decided that?

---
Well, I found a 10k that I think I'd like to run next month. Have the color run 5k coming up, I have had a race every month so far since April and 2 in May!

Got 4 miles in on the treadmill on Saturday. Need to get back out on the road! Does anyone else find that races are so much easier than running at home? I ran 3 miles at home on the TM a few days ago and I swear my half marathon was easier than that! Perhaps it's just competing against others or the thrill of a race, but it's so much more fun and easier to push myself during a race.
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Old 06-11-2012, 10:22 AM   #75
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Buffy--I asked Mike what he thought about the hunched shoulder stuff and if he thought it could be causing issues, and he said he thought yes (not that he is an expert, but he reads A LOT about running). He said the same thing that you did--work on the core stuff. And said right away it is hard to take a deep breath with hunched shoulders. This is before I even said you were thinking it was a breathing thing. So, it sounds like you are on the right track to fixing things. I hunch my shoulders too, and I have found forcing myself to keep my hands below my hips helps. That and having Mike beside nagging me--relax your shoulders, relax your shoulders.
I yell at DS15 all the time for hunching his shoulders when he does longer distances. I do find that I'm more aware of it than he is though.
Now if I could just get my foot to stop hurting. I switched to the New balance Minimalists and my Plantar Fasciitis just about went away without the boot, but now that I'm running again, it's back. Not at bad as before but I can really feel it the day after a run or when I've been sitting for a long time. Downfall of being short! My feet don't touch the floor even in dining chairs if I sit back to support my back.
So I think I'm going to have to go back to the podiatrist again, I really don't want to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose&Mike View Post
B. It looks like a lot of people have goals for this year or races they would like to complete. As runners (mostly women in this group) I think we hear a lot of "CAN'TS". For instance, we have a friend who is in her 20s and can run a half in under 1:50. She developed itbs this spring and the doctor she went to told her women are not designed to run and she should find a new sport. What "Can't" or "No" messages are you hearing or are you telling yourself that could be a roadblock to your training?
My can't is a lot of things. I can't get my food issues under control. I can't get my lack of exercise motivation under control.
When I did the Everest Challenge I felt the goal was obtainable so training was somewhat easy. With the 1/2 or the full (I still haven't made up my mind) they seem so far reaching and so out there I'm kind of like "well you know you're gonna fail so why even try, just forget it"
Self fulfilling prophecy - If I tell myself I can't, then I won't.

Rose I hear you on the "jogger". I run at 4.0 My Fitness Pal says 4.0 is a brisk walk. And it is.... for DS15 ....but I bust my @$$ to get that 4.0 It's very deflating. Hell 5.0 gets you to jogging on MFP, I can't do that speed for more than a minute or two.
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