Disney, Adoption and The Avengers...

[EricQelDroma]

Originally Posted by Olawles

There is no mention of how old the daughter is in this quote, however it doesn't seem like adoption was explained very clearly to her. It also sounds like (from the daughter's actual question) that she is very young. The movie is PG-13 (which stands for Parental Guidance under the age of 13, by the way) and I've read other posts stating that if one were to watch the movie Thor, it explains his background, and the adoption comment makes more sense. If you are unable to provide "parental guidance" to your under-13 child, then you can not possibly be upset with the movie. To get upset over this single line in the movie when it's clearly been taken somewhat out of context and heard by someone who may be too young to grasp the essence of the joke is ridiculous.

Yessss. You know so much about how my daughter's been raised. Thanks for your input. What's most amusing to me is that my daughter actually GOT the joke--she's just savvy enough to understand that it's not funny.

All of that said, try reading the rest of the thread. I've made no secret of my family's situation, and I've addressed the rating issue. The joke wouldn't be funny in any movie.

Originally Posted by Olawles

That's another point...not everyone thinks every joke is funny. But that's why they're funny, because it's something unexpected, and in some cases, offensive to whatever degree. Just because you don't think the joke is funny doesn't give you the right to alter the movie itself just to make you happy.

Oh, okay. So I can use all sorts of offensive racial epithets and stereotypes now and not be widely condemed for them? I just get to say, "Oh, sorry [insert minority class here]! You shouldn't be upset! It's funny to me!"

Originally Posted by Olawles

I understand why people would get upset over this quote, however in today's world everyone needs something to be upset at, and in some cases, something to fight just for the sake of fighting. This is a perfect example. People are too used to getting exactly what they want. It's become a part of this first-world life we enjoy. People forget that just 20 years ago, life was very different. You couldn't always get what you wanted because it simply wasn't possible, and people got used to it and dealt with it. Now, almost anything is possible, and people now are so accustomed to getting what they want, how they want it, and when they want it, that they'll fight anything or anyone that defies them.

Come on. Twenty years ago was post-Clarence Thomas. Little to nothing has changed in that time in terms of jokes, humor, and "getting what you want."

And if you can understand why people would get upset, why are you bashing those of us who have gotten upset?

Originally Posted by Olawles

EDIT: Another point I forgot to include is that Thor is obviously joking about it. If he were to sincerely suggest that Loki being adopted is the cause for his evil nature, then it would be a different story. HOWEVER, this is not the case.

Ah, yes. Thor, who has spent two whole movies vigorously arguing that Loki is a "real" part of his family. (As he should, BTW.) Thor now makes a joke about Loki being adopted. It's kind of like Gandhi making a joke about "Well, he's only an Indian" at the end of his movie, right? Same thing, I guess.

[JenM]

Originally Posted by EricQelDroma

"Thor (the character)" is the only one that can lift his hammer (except for Odin and [probably, as it happens in the comics] Captain America) because he's just THAT GOOD. (You have to be worthy to lift the hammer. See Hulk's trouble in the movie.) Having Thor say that line is WAY different than having, say, Tony Stark say that line.

Especially since Tony Stark isn't Loki's brother. Having him say it just would have been weird.

Thor actually loses the ability to wield the hammer in his solo movie because of his arrogance and warmongering. He spent an entire movie having to learn about humility and respect and the consequences of his actions before he's finally deemed worthy of the hammer again.

Loki learns that he's one of the Frost Giants, but that's always been loved as no less than a son and brother, and he tosses it away. He had his chances to earn the hammer himself. He didn't earn it - because he turned into a genocidal maniac.

In Thor and Loki's first scene in Avengers, Thor starts the conversation with "our father..." which Loki immediately corrects by saying "No, your father..."

And then Thor immediately pointed up how they were always brothers, that they had grown up together, played together, fought wars together...but Loki wanted none of it.

Can you remind me where murdering 80 people is made into a joke by a genuinely good person? Mass murder jokes in the movie at all? Anyone? Oh, so it's not the same thing. Got it.

Did you see anyone laughing in that scene? Because they weren't.

[JenM]

Originally Posted by Lintasare

But are they good or evil anthropomorphic ponies?

Depends on how good the drinks and taco dip are.

[EricQelDroma]

Originally Posted by JenM

Did you see anyone laughing in that scene? Because they weren't.

Let's be fair, though. Most of the laugh-out-loud stuff in that movie doesn't garner diegetic laughter. You're correct: the characters didn't laugh. Unfortunately, the joke was intended for the audience and not the characters.

[Hokes]

Originally Posted by EMom

I don't expect you or anyone else to be offended by the line. What I would HOPE is that they could open their hearts and minds enough to empathize with adopted children and realize that such a line might well offend/hurt adopted children. It boggles my mind that it is beyond anyone's comprehension how this might (likely would) negatively impact adopted children, especially given the posts from adoptees and adoptive parents explaining that fact in clear detail.

A Rebel flag does not offend me in the least, but I can grasp how it might offend Blacks. A fraternity "slave auction" might strike one person as merely tasteless, but might cause much stronger emotions in someone whose ancestors had been slaves.

Of course, the "target" of the act/line/joke will be more offended than a person who is not the target. I don't have to be offended to wrap my head around the fact that some things....especially those that would seriously hurt CHILDREN......might need to be reconsidered as joke material.

But if you believe if was a fine thing to do and totally worth the joke, even if if was a slap in the face to a lot of kids who will see the movie and walk out hurt, hey.......We're just going to disagree.

1. Stop comparing the imagined persecution of the adopted with the undeniable horror experience by people of colour. It makes you either a complete lunatic or someone who completely devalues the hardships endured by centuries of racism. Other than bigots trying to prevent same sex adoptive families, you're not being persecuted and you never really have been.

2. You and your supporters have zero understanding of comic book mythology if you are seriously offended that comic books and their adaptations aren't doing justice to adoptive families. because you have to be a complete idiot to not see the numerous examples of beautiful adoption stories in comic books and the strength of character and sense of justice it builds in superheroes.

Clark Kent (Superman) - adopted by the Kent family
Bruce Wayne (Batman) - adopted (in a sense) by Alfred Pennyworth
Dick Grayson and Jason Todd (first and second Robin; eventually Nightwing and Red Hood, respectively) - adopted by Bruce Wayne
Peter Parker (Spiderman) - adopted by Ben and May Parker
Loki - adoptive brother to Thor Odinson, adopted by Odin Allfather

Jason Todd excluded, Loki is the only major 'adoption gone wrong' story i can think of off the top of my head. And to be honest i still find it a beautiful and inspiring adoption story because in the mythology Thor never gives up on his brother and is constantly trying to redeem him. Thor loves Loki unconditionally and the pain he must endure seeing his brother betray the ideals of their family is the single greatest conflict of that franchise.

Thor's quip only shows him trying to deal with the pain tearing him apart and makes it clear that he can't even begin to piece together the source of his brother's betrayal, so he is forced to mask his pain with uncomfortable comedy. i would imagine those feelings to a lesser extent are present in most sibling rivalries.

Comic books are the single greatest source of positive adoption stories in contemporary media. You all need to grow up.

[FlightlessDuck]

Originally Posted by JenM

Anthropomorphic pony rides for everyone!

Bad Horse does not give "pony rides"

[Hokes]

Furthermore, if your children aren't old enough to sit them down and explain the source of Loki and Thor's conflict, or can't grasp nuance and take every single thing ever presented to them at its literal face value, THEY SHOULDN'T BE SEEING PG-13 MOVIES IN THE FIRST PLACE.

[FlightlessDuck]

Originally Posted by Hokes

Dick Grayson and Jason Todd (first and second Robin; eventually Nightwing and Red Hood, respectively) - adopted by Bruce Wayne

Tim Drake, the third Robin, was adopted eventually, as well, and actually took the Wayne name.

[JenM]

Originally Posted by EricQelDroma

Let's be fair, though. Most of the laugh-out-loud stuff in that movie doesn't garner diegetic laughter. You're correct: the characters didn't laugh. Unfortunately, the joke was intended for the audience and not the characters.

And we laughed because that line was funny. That's right, I laughed at that line. Both times I saw it. It got one of the biggest laughs from the audiences I saw it with. I still think that line was funny.

But I don't think that all adopted kids are mass murderers planning alien invasions so they can rule a broken planet Earth. I never have. And I've certainly never thought adopted kids were lesser than the families who love them and raise them, and certainly never took that message from that moment in the movie. That's ridiculous.

Iron Man 2 has a scene where Tony realizes his assistant and driver have left him to work for Pepper, and he says "I lost both kids in the divorce!" Do we have to change that line now because children in custody battles might be upset? Of course not.

I do think Thor still loves his brother very much, even though Loki - by his own doing - is making that very difficult. Even with the infamous line, that's pretty obvious.

[JenM]

Originally Posted by FlightlessDuck

Bad Horse does not give "pony rides"

[Lintasare]

Originally Posted by FlightlessDuck

Bad Horse does not give "pony rides"

Now to be fair Bad Horse is just that...a very bad horse. He is not an anthropomorphic pony. I was promised an anthropomorphic pony ride.

[Adopted kid]

Who are you people it's a comic book movie. I'm an adopted kid and I wasn't offended what so ever. You just have to have something to complain about and that's just sad. Quit trying to think for your and other peoples kids and let them think on their own.

Adopted kid out!!!!

[Adopted kid]

Originally Posted by Hokes

1. Stop comparing the imagined persecution of the adopted with the undeniable horror experience by people of colour. It makes you either a complete lunatic or someone who completely devalues the hardships endured by centuries of racism. Other than bigots trying to prevent same sex adoptive families, you're not being persecuted and you never really have been.

2. You and your supporters have zero understanding of comic book mythology if you are seriously offended that comic books and their adaptations aren't doing justice to adoptive families. because you have to be a complete idiot to not see the numerous examples of beautiful adoption stories in comic books and the strength of character and sense of justice it builds in superheroes.

Clark Kent (Superman) - adopted by the Kent family
Bruce Wayne (Batman) - adopted (in a sense) by Alfred Pennyworth
Dick Grayson and Jason Todd (first and second Robin; eventually Nightwing and Red Hood, respectively) - adopted by Bruce Wayne
Peter Parker (Spiderman) - adopted by Ben and May Parker
Loki - adoptive brother to Thor Odinson, adopted by Odin Allfather

Jason Todd excluded, Loki is the only major 'adoption gone wrong' story i can think of off the top of my head. And to be honest i still find it a beautiful and inspiring adoption story because in the mythology Thor never gives up on his brother and is constantly trying to redeem him. Thor loves Loki unconditionally and the pain he must endure seeing his brother betray the ideals of their family is the single greatest conflict of that franchise.

Thor's quip only shows him trying to deal with the pain tearing him apart and makes it clear that he can't even begin to piece together the source of his brother's betrayal, so he is forced to mask his pain with uncomfortable comedy. i would imagine those feelings to a lesser extent are present in most sibling rivalries.

Comic books are the single greatest source of positive adoption stories in contemporary media. You all need to grow up.

"like"

[DisMN]

Originally Posted by Hokes

1. Stop comparing the imagined persecution of the adopted with the undeniable horror experience by people of colour. It makes you either a complete lunatic or someone who completely devalues the hardships endured by centuries of racism. Other than bigots trying to prevent same sex adoptive families, you're not being persecuted and you never really have been.

2. You and your supporters have zero understanding of comic book mythology if you are seriously offended that comic books and their adaptations aren't doing justice to adoptive families. because you have to be a complete idiot to not see the numerous examples of beautiful adoption stories in comic books and the strength of character and sense of justice it builds in superheroes.

Clark Kent (Superman) - adopted by the Kent family
Bruce Wayne (Batman) - adopted (in a sense) by Alfred Pennyworth
Dick Grayson and Jason Todd (first and second Robin; eventually Nightwing and Red Hood, respectively) - adopted by Bruce Wayne
Peter Parker (Spiderman) - adopted by Ben and May Parker
Loki - adoptive brother to Thor Odinson, adopted by Odin Allfather

Jason Todd excluded, Loki is the only major 'adoption gone wrong' story i can think of off the top of my head. And to be honest i still find it a beautiful and inspiring adoption story because in the mythology Thor never gives up on his brother and is constantly trying to redeem him. Thor loves Loki unconditionally and the pain he must endure seeing his brother betray the ideals of their family is the single greatest conflict of that franchise.

Thor's quip only shows him trying to deal with the pain tearing him apart and makes it clear that he can't even begin to piece together the source of his brother's betrayal, so he is forced to mask his pain with uncomfortable comedy. i would imagine those feelings to a lesser extent are present in most sibling rivalries.

Comic books are the single greatest source of positive adoption stories in contemporary media. You all need to grow up.

Yes to everything you said, and thankyou for saying it but I want to add this thought as well........

I know people have always argued about nature versus nurture and maybe this was a way of saying that adoption doesn't erase the natural instincts that we're born with. The child I gave up for adoption resembles me, she has my personality and even my voice. She was adopted and yet she still carries my genetics...therefore she could also share, by nature, my temprement and character.


We really enjoyed the movie.

[Squidgyness]

I don't see any problem with it tbh, for all the arguments previously mentioned.

In the theatre I went to see it at in the UK it got some chuckles, a few laughs and even a snort from somewhere. That's the equivalent of guffawing and laughing loudly in some other parts of the world