Disney, Adoption and The Avengers...

[LuvsDragonflies]

It's not easy being green.

[skater]

Originally Posted by Jennasis

However, let me bottom line my feelings on the matter for you(since I have already invoked the jazz hands)....I really am sorry you and your kid's feelings were hurt. I'm sorry some other's were as well. I'm sorry it tarnished for you what was otherwise a stellar movie. I am. It bums me out that something so seemingly trivial (and hilarious IMO) may have ruined the experience for you and to be honest, when I fork out another $13 to go see it this week, I won't get nearly the same joy out of that line as I did the first time I watched it.

That said, it was still possibly the best movie I've ever seen and I hope Joss Whedon does the same outstanding job on the next one.

Thank you. While we may not agree on all the points in this thread, this is very nice. I think what has bugged me so much is the lack of empathy and the strong language used by some posters. Words like pathetic, amusing, silly point of view, outrage is ridiculous, etc. are argumentative and unnecessary. Of course a good argument on the DIS can be sort of fun, but adoption is such a part of my heart and soul, that I can get a little worked up . And when reading some of the posters' judgmental assertions that indicate its silly to be upset about that line, it irks the crap out of me. I appreciate your empathy despite your dissenting opinions.

[eliza61]

So let me say I have not read all 11 pages. My intention is not to insult anyone, any group.

1) I found nothing wrong with the quote at all. Worse, it is some thing I have said many times about my kids, my siblings, myself, my relatives and my dh. The implication was not that they are "bad" but that they did some thing or act in some way that is "different" then what we consider "normal".

2) I like to think that I am sensitive to others. I know some times I probably am not. As many know I'm not a fan of disney's song of the south but over time and talking to others, I'm probably not as insulted by the movies. It will never be one of my choices to watch and I will never show it to any kids I know but I just don't get up in arms over it.

3) some times a movie is just a movie. I can't begin to pick apart every scene and every line in a dialoge to make sure it isn't offensive to some group. I'd never be able to watch a movie, a tv show or listen to a song. Two broke girls is one of my favorite shows and lord knows the entire 30 mins is nothing but off colored, bad taste jokes. I'm Black and love any thing Dave Chappel or Medea (Tyler Perry) put out and Lord knows they poke fun at black folk.

4) Avengers was the most fun I had at the movies in quite a while and for once a movie I thought worth the 10 bucks admission. I plan on going again this weekend and it's one of the few I plan on buying when it comes out on dvd.

5) everyone is entitled to determine what they feel is insulting or demeaning to them. I'm more of the "power of the purse" type of gal. If the line really upset you, simply don't go see any more of chris weldons movies.

[Lintasare]

Originally Posted by eliza61

So let me say I have not read all 11 pages. My intention is not to insult anyone, any group.


5) everyone is entitled to determine what they feel is insulting or demeaning to them. I'm more of the "power of the purse" type of gal. If the line really upset you, simply don't go see any more of chris weldons movies.

Joss Whedon

[EMom]

Originally Posted by eliza61

So let me say I have not read all 11 pages. My intention is not to insult anyone, any group.

1) I found nothing wrong with the quote at all. Worse, it is some thing I have said many times about my kids, my siblings, myself, my relatives and my dh. The implication was not that they are "bad" but that they did some thing or act in some way that is "different" then what we consider "normal".

Please do not take this as a lecture. Your post was thoughtful and I wanted to comment on this one point. I would ask that you and others reconsider the use of "you must be adopted" or "what are you.....adopted?" etc., to illustrate that someone is different or other than normal. I cringe every time I hear someone say that and hope my child is not within earshot. I don't lecture them, because they are making the remark innocently enough. It's just something our culture does. But it's something I believe our culture should rethink. It reinforces a negative stereotype whether people mean it or not. It says that adopted people are different and don't fit. Is that the message we want to send? Especially to children? So to those who toss this phrase around, please think about how it might sound to an adopted child's ears, because if you use it at home, your children WILL repeat it out in the world.

This is not directed at you, but is a comment in general. I realized last night that what is most bothersome to me may not even be the movie line, "He's adopted," but the audience reaction. Why does that line cause such laughter? Because it plays to every stereotype and prejudice our society has regarding adoption. The laughter is the part that probably would hurt kids the most. Because to them, it feels as if the crowd is laughing AT THEM, on some level. At the core of who they are. And that can be painful. More than that, it makes me wonder why adoption as the explanation/excuse for a character's (major) flaws is such a cause for laughter.

[eliza61]

Originally Posted by Lintasare

Joss Whedon

Thanks, that's me. wrong again.

Originally Posted by EMom

Please do not take this as a lecture. Your post was thoughtful and I wanted to comment on this one point. I would ask that you and others reconsider the use of "you must be adopted" or "what are you.....adopted?" etc., to illustrate that someone is different or other than normal. I cringe every time I hear someone say that and hope my child is not within earshot. I don't lecture them, because they are making the remark innocently enough. It's just something our culture does. But it's something I believe our culture should rethink. It reinforces a negative stereotype whether people mean it or not. It says that adopted people are different and don't fit. Is that the message we want to send? Especially to children? So to those who toss this phrase around, please think about how it might sound to an adopted child's ears, because if you use it at home, your children WILL repeat it out in the world.

This is not directed at you, but is a comment in general. I realized last night that what is most bothersome to me may not even be the movie line, "He's adopted," but the audience reaction. Why does that line cause such laughter? Because it plays to every stereotype and prejudice our society has regarding adoption. The laughter is the part that probably would hurt kids the most. Because to them, it feels as if the crowd is laughing AT THEM, on some level. At the core of who they are. And that can be painful. More than that, it makes me wonder why adoption as the explanation/excuse for a character's (major) flaws is such a cause for laughter.

No problem. Honestly, I've never given it much thought when I say it generally because I do use it at home basically with my kids, husband and with my siblings. My youngest brother was such a different kid growing up that we said it all the time. He's never mentioned if it hurt him. Take that with a grain of salt because I grew up in the 60's and unfortunately many topics were taboo.

Not sure that I think we laugh because of negative connetations, I think we laugh because everyone knows how it feels to "march left" when everyone else is "marching right". I think some times it's good to laugh at ourselves.

thanks for your thoughts Etmom, I would have never considered your points and definitely gave me some thing to think about.

[MaraChristine]

Originally Posted by Doug7856

Did this scene bother anyone else?

Just another way to discriminate and marginalize adopted persons. You know, it's bad enough we can't possess our own birth certificates, medical history, know our ethnicities, cultures, family trees, many of us permanently prevented from ever knowing our biological families due to sealed legal documents. This is inhumane and in the 21st century! Oh, and some of us are having a very hard time getting passports after 9/11 due to the amended birth certificates (falsified, fake ones) we were issued upon our adoption. Some international adoptees are being deported. Ya, you go Marvel, Paramount, and Disney Studios!!! Cheap slams for cheap laughs...I wonder how much laughter there would be if he said: "He's Jewish." "He's Black." "He's Gay."

[skater]

Originally Posted by eliza61

So let me say I have not read all 11 pages. My intention is not to insult anyone, any group.

1) I found nothing wrong with the quote at all. Worse, it is some thing I have said many times about my kids, my siblings, myself, my relatives and my dh. The implication was not that they are "bad" but that they did some thing or act in some way that is "different" then what we consider "normal".

2) I like to think that I am sensitive to others. I know some times I probably am not. As many know I'm not a fan of disney's song of the south but over time and talking to others, I'm probably not as insulted by the movies. It will never be one of my choices to watch and I will never show it to any kids I know but I just don't get up in arms over it.

3) some times a movie is just a movie. I can't begin to pick apart every scene and every line in a dialoge to make sure it isn't offensive to some group. I'd never be able to watch a movie, a tv show or listen to a song. Two broke girls is one of my favorite shows and lord knows the entire 30 mins is nothing but off colored, bad taste jokes. I'm Black and love any thing Dave Chappel or Medea (Tyler Perry) put out and Lord knows they poke fun at black folk.

4) Avengers was the most fun I had at the movies in quite a while and for once a movie I thought worth the 10 bucks admission. I plan on going again this weekend and it's one of the few I plan on buying when it comes out on dvd.

5) everyone is entitled to determine what they feel is insulting or demeaning to them. I'm more of the "power of the purse" type of gal. If the line really upset you, simply don't go see any more of chris weldons movies.

Thank you for your thoughts. This is a respectful way to express a dissenting view on this topic without belittling people who might be upset about it. While I don't always agree with you, I always enjoy reading your opinions on controversial topics, and this post has upped my respect for you.

[DizBelle]

Originally Posted by EricQelDroma

You are so right. Thanks for this.

I think it's especially difficult to impress upon people just how ubiquitous and pervasive these cliches are, and how strongly they can affect people, whether children or not.

My daughter is Asian in a predominantly Caucasian area. She's picked up on the "I'm not blonde, my skin is dark, my eyes are strange" vibe since she was two. We don't let her watch a ton of TV, and our whole extended family has been gung-ho on the adoption thing from day one. These attitudes are everywhere and it's very hard to pick up on them until you're the target.

Before my daughter came to us, I thought that people who pushed for an African American Disney Princess were being overly sensitive. After all, I thought Mr. T. was the coolest thing ever when I was a kid, and I'm white and he's black. It wasn't a problem for me! I didn't realize that I also hadn't had every single image in our society telling me that my color, my looks, my hair, my style, my clothes, my speech, my family was undesirable and inferior. Now I see how important it is for children's self-image for them to have characters and playthings that reflect their reality in a positive way. It's not something a four-year-old should have to "get over" when society is telling them that they're different and therefore bad.

Different just means different. It doesn't mean bad.

The fact of the matter is that being adopted does make you different in your family. If breast cancer runs in the females in the family, the adopted daughter does not have increased chances of developing breast cancer like a biological daughter does. You can't say that an adopted child is just like a biological child because it just isn't so. This DOES NOT mean that an adopted child is inferior or less loved than a biological child. Emotionally, they are just as much part of the family as any of the blood relations. Physically, though, it just isn't so.

If an adopted child give family medical information to their doctor for their adopted family, that could lead to confusion and mis-diagnosis and be a dangerous situation. The adopted child has to know the difference for their own well being.

[DizBelle]

On another note, if you're taking your 6, 7, 8 year old to a movie that is rated PG-13, you shouldn't be too surprised if there are topics (like jokes) that may confuse them and even hurt them. It was your choice to take them to the movie. Don't blame the movie maker.

For your reference:
PG-13 — Parents Strongly Cautioned. Some Material May Be Inappropriate For Children Under 13. A PG-13 rating is a sterner warning by the Rating Board to parents to determine whether their children under age 13 should view the motion picture, as some material might not be suited for them.

[skater]

Originally Posted by DizBelle

Different just means different. It doesn't mean bad.

The fact of the matter is that being adopted does make you different in your family. If breast cancer runs in the females in the family, the adopted daughter does not have increased chances of developing breast cancer like a biological daughter does. You can't say that an adopted child is just like a biological child because it just isn't so. This DOES NOT mean that an adopted child is inferior or less loved than a biological child. Emotionally, they are just as much part of the family as any of the blood relations. Physically, though, it just isn't so.

If an adopted child give family medical information to their doctor for their adopted family, that could lead to confusion and mis-diagnosis and be a dangerous situation. The adopted child has to know the difference for their own well being.

Of course adopted children are different biologically - I don't think anyone would dispute that. But often when people say different, they do mean inferior. Its very subtle, but its there.

[metalis4ever]

Originally Posted by DizBelle

On another note, if you're taking your 6, 7, 8 year old to a movie that is rated PG-13, you shouldn't be too surprised if there are topics (like jokes) that may confuse them and even hurt them. It was your choice to take them to the movie. Don't blame the movie maker.
For your reference:
PG-13 — Parents Strongly Cautioned. Some Material May Be Inappropriate For Children Under 13. A PG-13 rating is a sterner warning by the Rating Board to parents to determine whether their children under age 13 should view the motion picture, as some material might not be suited for them.

I completely agree with the above.

[SaraJayne]

Originally Posted by DizBelle

On another note, if you're taking your 6, 7, 8 year old to a movie that is rated PG-13, you shouldn't be too surprised if there are topics (like jokes) that may confuse them and even hurt them. It was your choice to take them to the movie. Don't blame the movie maker.

For your reference:
PG-13 — Parents Strongly Cautioned. Some Material May Be Inappropriate For Children Under 13. A PG-13 rating is a sterner warning by the Rating Board to parents to determine whether their children under age 13 should view the motion picture, as some material might not be suited for them.

[skater]

Originally Posted by DizBelle

On another note, if you're taking your 6, 7, 8 year old to a movie that is rated PG-13, you shouldn't be too surprised if there are topics (like jokes) that may confuse them and even hurt them. It was your choice to take them to the movie. Don't blame the movie maker.

For your reference:
PG-13 — Parents Strongly Cautioned. Some Material May Be Inappropriate For Children Under 13. A PG-13 rating is a sterner warning by the Rating Board to parents to determine whether their children under age 13 should view the motion picture, as some material might not be suited for them.

I totally agree with you, and have always been careful with media.

But tell that to the people who are marketing that moview to young kids with toys and ads . Obviously, I'm still the parent, and I make the choices. Still, its worth noting that the rating matters not a bit to the "movie maker." You can bet they want those young kids in those theaters. So, I can blame them a little I think .

[Scurvy]

Originally Posted by Chernabog#1fan

My son who is adopted was confused by the joke and is 9. I think what got to him in the theater was hearing that Loki was adopted and people laughing, as if people laughed at people who are adopted. Hopefully that makes sense how I am saying it.

He told us that he did not understand it in the theater, so we said we would explain it after, so I brought it up today with him. At first, I could not explain it in a way that sounded remotely funny. Then I said to him, it would be like you are at school telling your teacher that so and so is your best friend. The teacher says, well so and so just punched a child, so you say, well I do not really know him all that well. He started to laugh and then said, basically Thor did not want to take the blame for his actions.

I really think what may set a child off is just hearing people laugh and thinking thy are laughing at kids who are adopted. My daughter is a few years older and while she did not laugh, she did not make an issue out of it either.

Off topic, can you explain jazz hands to me?

Thank you for explaining why your child was confused - I can understand the idea that it bothered him when he thought people were laughing at the idea of Loki being adopted. I love the way you explained the joke to him, and I love that he understood and laughed about it!